(04-26-2020, 09:41 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 09:15 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]No idea how it'll turn out, but the obvious need based selections make me cringe. Maybe it works out, but the chances of actually replacing Ramsey and Yann are very low, so selecting based on who you lost, then reaching for receiver at the end of a run that cleaned out a lot of talent from that group seems very stupid. My guess is in 3-4 years with a new GM finally here we'll be talking about how drafts in 2020 and 2021 with so much promise from so many high picks turned out so bad.
Needs based drafting is a fool's errand. The Jags are at best mediocre at every position, except Josh Allen and Chark. There's no reason to even take what you already have on your roster into account, the draft is about what your team will be in 2-3 years, not what it will be this year, and that's why the great teams like the Packers and Steelers only have short times of relatively poor play before returning to contender status and teams like the Jags have twenty years of almost uninterrupted futility.
What if I told you all of the first 3 picks were all on the top of their board as well as being needs?
No offense but I don't think you know what you're are talking about here. Shenault certainly wasn't a reach
I wouldn't trust the Jaguars board, they rank guys taking "need" into account. Like I said, maybe it works out anyway, but I have a sinking feeling we'll continue to see what we've seen for years, guys taken a pick or two after our guys will be better players, and the Jaguars won't even have most of these guys on the team anymore in 4 years.
As for Shenault, maybe he succeeds or maybe he doesn't, it's the needs based drafting that bothers me more than who they took, who might work out anyway.
(04-26-2020, 09:41 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]What if I told you all of the first 3 picks were all on the top of their board as well as being needs?
No offense but I don't think you know what you're are talking about here. Shenault certainly wasn't a reach
Lol, every single year Dave says we got the type guy on his board in addition to getting guys in the 2nd round that they had graded as first rounders. And then we pick top 10 again.
Maybe, just maybe, he's lying. Or he is really awful at putting a board together. Or both.
Shenault wasn't a reach per se, but it was a risky pick considering there was equal upside in a much safer package with Mims.
(04-26-2020, 09:15 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]No idea how it'll turn out, but the obvious need based selections make me cringe. Maybe it works out, but the chances of actually replacing Ramsey and Yann are very low, so selecting based on who you lost, then reaching for receiver at the end of a run that cleaned out a lot of talent from that group seems very stupid. My guess is in 3-4 years with a new GM finally here we'll be talking about how drafts in 2020 and 2021 with so much promise from so many high picks turned out so bad.
Needs based drafting is a fool's errand. The Jags are at best mediocre at every position, except Josh Allen and Chark. There's no reason to even take what you already have on your roster into account, the draft is about what your team will be in 2-3 years, not what it will be this year, and that's why the great teams like the Packers and Steelers only have short times of relatively poor play before returning to contender status and teams like the Jags have twenty years of almost uninterrupted futility.
Odd, because I thought the first two rounds were BAP picks.
(04-26-2020, 09:54 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 09:41 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]What if I told you all of the first 3 picks were all on the top of their board as well as being needs?
No offense but I don't think you know what you're are talking about here. Shenault certainly wasn't a reach
Lol, every single year Dave says we got the type guy on his board in addition to getting guys in the 2nd round that they had graded as first rounders. And then we pick top 10 again.
Maybe, just maybe, he's lying. Or he is really awful at putting a board together. Or both.
Shenault wasn't a reach per se, but it was a risky pick considering there was equal upside in a much safer package with Mims.
I'm not talking about what Dave said publicly
(04-26-2020, 09:52 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 09:41 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]What if I told you all of the first 3 picks were all on the top of their board as well as being needs?
No offense but I don't think you know what you're are talking about here. Shenault certainly wasn't a reach
I wouldn't trust the Jaguars board, they rank guys taking "need" into account. Like I said, maybe it works out anyway, but I have a sinking feeling we'll continue to see what we've seen for years, guys taken a pick or two after our guys will be better players, and the Jaguars won't even have most of these guys on the team anymore in 4 years.
As for Shenault, maybe he succeeds or maybe he doesn't, it's the needs based drafting that bothers me more than who they took, who might work out anyway.
Every football team makes a horizontal and vertical board making need into account, the Jags are no different.
Chaisson and Henderson were both needs, but also they viewed then as very appropriate talent at each spot. If Chaisson was gone they were going to go Justin Jefferson.
I'm guessing somewhere in the B-/C+ range but of course we won't really know until a couple seasons pass.
Caldwell/the Khans/Marrone clearly strategized about which positions would be depleted between their picks. The run on corners being the most obvious and perhaps influencing a bit of a reach for Henderson. Hopefully his play makes it only a mild reach or even a great pick. Every single team drafts for need and reaches here or there, just a question of whether they reached too far.
Especially with the tackle prospects available.
I love that they were able to address as many needs as they did early on and I hope those moves turn out to be good value and not reaches.
My gripes are that O-Line was not prioritized higher and that they rolled the dice on a 5th round safety with the wrong skillset for our scheme and current roster. Just wish they'd have sought competition for Wilson at FS rather than taking a guy seemingly limited to the box.
My ideal first 3 picks given who was available would have looked something like
1) Wirfs
2) Jefferson
3) Johnson/Delpit/Shenault
Regardless of what grade you give, everyone has to agree that Dave in no way drafted like a guy who felt like he was on the hot seat. He's going to be making at least his 9th draft next year and it will almost guarantee he extends his record breaking streak of top 10 selections too.
On Delpit, when watching Chaisson videos, you can't help but notice how ridiculously horrible Delpit is at tackling. I know CJ Henderson is no Ed Reed, but Delpit.... damn
(04-26-2020, 10:12 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]My ideal first 3 picks given who was available would have looked something like
1) Wirfs
2) Jefferson
3) Johnson/Delpit/Shenault
Wirfs, Jefferson, Winfield for me.
The players themself aren’t that bad. The crop id give a B. The strategy though was dog [BLEEP] and mind blowing how it could disrespect and disregard Minshew that much. For that reason I give this class a F.
Reason is, the only way to win in this league... or sustain any sort of winning culture is to have a QB. The NFL actually likes you if you have a QB. You get put on prime time games when you have a QB. I see everyone complaining about commercials before Jags picks saying it’s disrespectful. No it’s not, it’s because we are perennial losers and have no QB. That simple. We win and have a QB, watch how soon the NFL flocks to liking us.
Now the F was given because I felt for the first time since Brunell we potentially could have a franchise QB. There simply is no way to find that out with out a offensive line. It’s that simple- no o line - no good QB. We did nothing to help the line, we drafted one project smoothie drinking tackle. Seriously? I harshly give a F for the reason that I believe this season could be BAD... like real BAD.. like 1-15 bad. I would guess there’s zero chance that Caldwel and company are retained after such a year. New GM is going to want his own guy, and draft a new QB 2021. Meaning we may never really see what Minshew has to offer. That’s tragic and I actually really feel bad for Minshew from an injury risk standpoint and getting the short end of the stick.
Player crop- B
Strategy- F
(04-26-2020, 10:46 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 10:12 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]My ideal first 3 picks given who was available would have looked something like
1) Wirfs
2) Jefferson
3) Johnson/Delpit/Shenault
Wirfs, Jefferson, Winfield for me.
1.-Wills - who BTW is gonna play LT for the Browns
2.-At 20 Jefferson but I would have traded up for Jeudy, Lamb, Henderson or Kinlaw.
3.-Fulton or Diggs
(04-26-2020, 10:44 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless of what grade you give, everyone has to agree that Dave in no way drafted like a guy who felt like he was on the hot seat. He's going to be making at least his 9th draft next year and it will almost guarantee he extends his record breaking streak of top 10 selections too.
I think the entirety of this offseason points toward a two-year plan.
Whatever that scheme was that Caldwell and Marrone sold Khan on back at the turn of the calendar year, it was a two year scheme. They haven't done anything this offseason that paints a picture of a hot seat.
Yeah, I think Caldwell and Marrone are staying for 2 more seasons yay!
Thanks Khan!
I give it a C, one of the biggest reasons is because Dave didn't get Minshew a RG. Doug was shuffling Cann and Richardson in and out of the RG position last year because neither one was good enough to be starting, we had 12 picks and Dave didn't get a starter there when there were a few guys there in the 4th that he could of got. Could of gotten the best TE in the draft in the 4th as well but went with need instead of BPA. Between last years draft and this years it was clear that last years draft was mostly Toms
(04-26-2020, 11:01 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]The players themself aren’t that bad. The crop id give a B. The strategy though was dog [BLEEP] and mind blowing how it could disrespect and disregard Minshew that much. For that reason I give this class a F.
Reason is, the only way to win in this league... or sustain any sort of winning culture is to have a QB. The NFL actually likes you if you have a QB. You get put on prime time games when you have a QB. I see everyone complaining about commercials before Jags picks saying it’s disrespectful. No it’s not, it’s because we are perennial losers and have no QB. That simple. We win and have a QB, watch how soon the NFL flocks to liking us.
Now the F was given because I felt for the first time since Brunell we potentially could have a franchise QB. There simply is no way to find that out with out a offensive line. It’s that simple- no o line - no good QB. We did nothing to help the line, we drafted one project smoothie drinking tackle. Seriously? I harshly give a F for the reason that I believe this season could be BAD... like real BAD.. like 1-15 bad. I would guess there’s zero chance that Caldwel and company are retained after such a year. New GM is going to want his own guy, and draft a new QB 2021. Meaning we may never really see what Minshew has to offer. That’s tragic and I actually really feel bad for Minshew from an injury risk standpoint and getting the short end of the stick.
Player crop- B
Strategy- F
Regardless of perceived weakness of Minshew’s supporting cast. If we go with 1-15 with him, we should definitely move on.
(04-26-2020, 11:06 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 10:44 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless of what grade you give, everyone has to agree that Dave in no way drafted like a guy who felt like he was on the hot seat. He's going to be making at least his 9th draft next year and it will almost guarantee he extends his record breaking streak of top 10 selections too.
I think the entirety of this offseason points toward a two-year plan.
Whatever that scheme was that Caldwell and Marrone sold Khan on back at the turn of the calendar year, it was a two year scheme. They haven't done anything this offseason that paints a picture of a hot seat.
So after two years of Shad saying he does not accept losing and people will be held accountable will we believe him when he does it again after another awful season?
(04-26-2020, 11:19 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 11:06 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I think the entirety of this offseason points toward a two-year plan.
Whatever that scheme was that Caldwell and Marrone sold Khan on back at the turn of the calendar year, it was a two year scheme. They haven't done anything this offseason that paints a picture of a hot seat.
So after two years of Shad saying he does not accept losing and people will be held accountable will we believe him when he does it again after another awful season?
He's played that hand. He acts like he's holding it again and I'd call the bluff.
I mean, I'm not gonna say he won't reach a tipping point, but he's clearly more patient than he let on in his most recent accountability statement.
(04-26-2020, 11:15 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I give it a C, one of the biggest reasons is because Dave didn't get Minshew a RG. Doug was shuffling Cann and Richardson in and out of the RG position last year because neither one was good enough to be starting, we had 12 picks and Dave didn't get a starter there when there were a few guys there in the 4th that he could of got. Could of gotten the best TE in the draft in the 4th as well but went with need instead of BPA. Between last years draft and this years it was clear that last years draft was mostly Toms
Isn't it possible that Bartch ends up kicking inside to RG to start his career? Many said he may excel there more anyway due to his arm length.
(04-26-2020, 11:31 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 11:15 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I give it a C, one of the biggest reasons is because Dave didn't get Minshew a RG. Doug was shuffling Cann and Richardson in and out of the RG position last year because neither one was good enough to be starting, we had 12 picks and Dave didn't get a starter there when there were a few guys there in the 4th that he could of got. Could of gotten the best TE in the draft in the 4th as well but went with need instead of BPA. Between last years draft and this years it was clear that last years draft was mostly Toms
Isn't it possible that Bartch ends up kicking inside to RG to start his career? Many said he may excel there more anyway due to his arm length.
If thats there plan and they fill he can step in at RG right away then I give it a B
Bartch won't be ready for at least one but maybe 2 seasons anyway, that jump from D3 to NFL is huge. He was a top tier jar on the shelf pick.