Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Jags Draft 2020
 
My take after a day to reflect and taking the team’s optimistic viewpoint:
Day One
I was hoping for one of the top LTs because the OL in long overdue to be fixed.  Minshew and the skill position players can’t reach their potential or score sufficient points behind the line as it currently exists.
1 C.J. Henderson – We needed a new true #1 corner.  Dave found one.  He’s got length, speed, and cover skills. A
1 EDGE K'Lavon Chaisson – An absolute beast!  Looking forward to him playing opposite Allen.  A
Day Two
Since we missed getting a top OL on day one, I thought we would surely get a couple on day two even if Dave had to trade back up into the second to do so.
2 WR Laviska Shenault – My favorite pick of the draft!  Speed, strength, and versatility. Can’t wait to see him on the field with Minshew and Chark.  A+
3 DL DaVon Hamilton – Addresses a real need.  But nothing to write home about.  B-
Day Three

4 OT Ben Bartch – Great find!  All the traits plus some personality sizzle.  Hopefully will be starting by the halfway point in the season.  A
4 CB Josiah Scott – Undersized slot corner.  Meh.  C
4 LB Shaquille Quartermam – A real thumper.  I love a blue-collar middle linebacker.  Good backup in 4-3.  Good second ILB in 3-4.  Lacks cover skills.  B+
5 S Daniel Thomas – Projects as a box safety.  Adequate speed. Meh.  C
5 WR Collin Johnson – Tall receiver with an underwhelming wingspan.  He projects as a big slot receiver and red zone target. B
6 QB Jake Luton – Has many qualities you want in a backup.  Smart.  Good decision maker.  Safe with the ball.  Greg Cosell loves him.  B-
6 TE Tyler Davis – Great kid with a big heart but limited physical attributes.  Good depth?  C
7 CB Chris Claybrooks – Blazing speed.  Projects as a return specialist.  C+

UDFA S J.R. Reed – projects as a FS.  Has length and is savvy.  Great signing.  B


Overall:  B+  Based on Shenault, Bartch, and building the roster overall with high character players (per media reports).

Pff likes it. A grade

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-...l-32-teams

(04-26-2020, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]A better defense? With possibly no Yan to go along with no Campbell, Bouye, Dareus, Ramsey....

And you’re relying on a rookie WR (who I do like for the future) and an often injured TE behind the exact same OLine that got Foles hurt and made Minshew run for his life?

Yea.... no.

I do think Yan plays this year.  It's $17 million or nothing.  He'll play.  Ramsey only played in 3 games last year.  Dareus only played in 6 games last year.  I think having rookie Hamilton and veteran Woods for presumably 16 games will do more to help the defense stop the run.  Bouye and Campbell were replaced with first round picks.  Keep in mind that the 2019 Campbell was only a shell of his 2017/2018 self.  I don't think it is unrealistic for Chaisson to beat Campbell's 6.5 sacks.  Bouye didn't have a great year either.  The team also upgraded its starting middle linebacker and by moving Myles Jack to his natural position, upgraded the WLB as well.  The team also added a lot of depth that was desperately needed.  

As for offense, I think the big hope is that our rookie quarterback will take a big step forward in his second year.  I also think Shenault is a huge new weapon.  He was the best pick in our draft.  Besides his own production, I think that he will also have a ripple effect.  Chark will benefit as teams will no longer be able to double team him.  Fournette will benefit as teams will have to give more respect to our passing game.  If I'm not mistaken, free agent Eifert's 436 receiving yards last year would have been the fourth best by any Jaguars tight end in history.  While I would like to have seen more done to upgrade the offensive line, it's no worse than last year.  I think the hope is that our rookie right tackle improves in his second season, our young left tackle improves being a year removed from a major injury and the other three veterans play up to the higher level that we've seen from them in the past.  The team also hired a new offensive coordinator.  I think everyone thought last year's offense was capable of more.

There are some reasons for optimism.

I agree there are reasons for optimism. If minshew is the guy, then this season is a success even if we don’t make it past 8-8. I’m excited to see what Jay Gruden can do with this offense. I agree that we haven’t lost that much compared to the team who won 6 games last year, and very well have won more if Foles didn’t come back in. Let’s see what happens.

I think we should add in Foles was 0-4 as a starter so Minshew starting 4 more games this year adds to win% theoretically as well. Foles singlehandedly cost us multiple games

This is a C for me.

I figured we would move around more, or use some of the later picks to get back into day 2. Round 1 seemed focused on drafting Needs to replace departed or soon to be departed malcontents, and then no RB pick at all. This may be a draft that pays dividends in 2-3 years, but I don't know that the coach and GM have that long to reap the rewards.

it going to be near a bottom 5 pass rushing unit instead of top 5, that will have a huge effect on a passing defense and will make the defense just as bad or worse even if the run defense is a lot better

(04-27-2020, 01:04 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]it going to be near a bottom 5 pass rushing unit instead of top 5, that will have a huge effect on a passing defense and will make the defense just as bad or worse even if the run defense is a lot better

Allen, Yan, and Chaisson isn't a bottom 5 pass rushing unit

(04-27-2020, 01:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2020, 01:04 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]it going to be near a bottom 5 pass rushing unit instead of top 5, that will have a huge effect on a passing defense and will make the defense just as bad or worse even if the run defense is a lot better

Allen, Yan, and Chaisson isn't a bottom 5 pass rushing unit

Yea bottom 5? That’s a joke we’re gonna have 2 elite edge rushers with yan and another promising one with smoot Bryan Gunter rushing from inside on third downs. Don’t sleep on smoot he can be a good rusher 6 sacks last year on limited snaps every time I see him in there he’s around the quarterback

I think as long as they can square away the MIDDLE of the field and tackle...this defense will be middle of the road in the rankings: 25-30 sacks. Middle rankings and improved QB play (63% completions, 3500 yards, 25 TDs, 10 or less TDs)...this team finishes 7-9/8-8. This team wasn't terrible last year save for that stretch of 5 games in the middle of the season where the defense couldn't stop the run to save their darn lives.

Whenever your argument in defense of the pass rush includes Bryan, Smoot, Gunter, and an extremely raw rookie you know it's bad.

Im loving the optimism from you guys and im not writing off draft picks, we will see what we have in September (hopefully) but i have zero confidence in us next season.

I want to be positive, i want to have a reason to fan but im tired of wishful thinking.

(04-27-2020, 04:31 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Im loving the optimism from you guys and im not writing off draft picks, we will see what we have in September (hopefully) but i have zero confidence in us next season.

I want to be positive, i want to have a reason to fan but im tired of wishful thinking.

That's beyond reasonable and fair Bubba. It feels like a long, drawn out divorce at this point with this team for the most of us. It's not really about being sad or mad. It's essentially worse than that. It's really resentment and apathy. 

I know I do it constantly. But I truly mean it. I cannot tip my hat enough to the season ticket holders that kept this team afloat and continue to keep this team afloat in this market. It's a lot to ask. But I get it. I want to be optimistic as well. 

I was reacting and huffing and puffing during the draft process. Took me a full day to kind of reevaluate the situation for what it is and for what it will continue to be until things change dramatically. I get the decisions to go defense early and often this year. 

And maybe with those selections it was honestly a vote of confidence towards Minshew and the offensive line. Maybe Caldwell and Marrone both agreed that by bringing in Gruden and McAdoo this off season and by adding a few players on offense that they can get away with it for now in year two with Minshew. 

The fact is that this defense was historically bad last year. B.A.D. BAD. IMHO though, that's more of an indictment towards Todd Wash's inability to manage the talent that he has around him. And that he cannot scheme accordingly in the NFL. 

You and I both know how I feel about him (3rd and 3 playing zone with CB's 5 - 7 yards off the LOS?). And I continue to bring up 2016, 2017 & 2018 as examples. Even when he HAD talent. Even when this defense was near PERFECT in 2017? He still managed to get out coached and out played by Gabbert, McCown, Mariota & Garoppolo and the talent that was in that locker room was adamant about NOT being utilized to the best of their abilities and NOT being schemed up properly. 

I don't know how he's dodged a bullet thus far. I just don't get it. I would have fired him within a week after that week 17 closed and I would have taken my chances with someone else out on the market. I would have called up Wade Phillips ASAP. I would have gone after other assistants from teams like New England who just came off an impressive year on defense or San Francisco who essentially did the same thing defensively and I would have given one of those guys a shot. 

Anybody but this [BLEEP] guy at this point. Hackett got dropped unfairly IMHO. 2018 we saw the offensive line banged up. And we saw that Bortles couldn't do it on his own neither. But we'll see. I'll be as optimistic as I can possibly be for 2020. But I honestly feel like Khan's a cheapskate when it comes to risks and moving on from lame duck personnel and results. 

There's no reason why Caldwell should still be here. And I honest to God believe that had Coughlin not been outed publicly by the NFLPA and had there not been so much negative press? I highly, HIGHLY doubt he's unemployed right now. Factor in the reports of Marrone being fired as well in December and that information being squashed rather quickly? It just goes to show him and his son have zero clue how to run a team. 

I think they wanted the notoriety of owning a team. But they didn't really want the burden of actually having to develop a winning culture and team. And I think the results speaks for themselves. It's been a decade. And we have one fluke to show for it.

(04-27-2020, 04:46 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2020, 04:31 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Im loving the optimism from you guys and im not writing off draft picks, we will see what we have in September (hopefully) but i have zero confidence in us next season.

I want to be positive, i want to have a reason to fan but im tired of wishful thinking.

That's beyond reasonable and fair Bubba. It feels like a long, drawn out divorce at this point with this team for the most of us. It's not really about being sad or mad. It's essentially worse than that. It's really resentment and apathy. 

I know I do it constantly. But I truly mean it. I cannot tip my hat enough to the season ticket holders that kept this team afloat and continue to keep this team afloat in this market. It's a lot to ask. But I get it. I want to be optimistic as well. 

I was reacting and huffing and puffing during the draft process. Took me a full day to kind of reevaluate the situation for what it is and for what it will continue to be until things change dramatically. I get the decisions to go defense early and often this year. 

And maybe with those selections it was honestly a vote of confidence towards Minshew and the offensive line. Maybe Caldwell and Marrone both agreed that by bringing in Gruden and McAdoo this off season and by adding a few players on offense that they can get away with it for now in year two with Minshew. 

The fact is that this defense was historically bad last year. B.A.D. BAD. IMHO though, that's more of an indictment towards Todd Wash's inability to manage the talent that he has around him. And that he cannot scheme accordingly in the NFL. 

You and I both know how I feel about him (3rd and 3 playing zone with CB's 5 - 7 yards off the LOS?). And I continue to bring up 2016, 2017 & 2018 as examples. Even when he HAD talent. Even when this defense was near PERFECT in 2017? He still managed to get out coached and out played by Gabbert, McCown, Mariota & Garoppolo and the talent that was in that locker room was adamant about NOT being utilized to the best of their abilities and NOT being schemed up properly. 

I don't know how he's dodged a bullet thus far. I just don't get it. I would have fired him within a week after that week 17 closed and I would have taken my chances with someone else out on the market. I would have called up Wade Phillips ASAP. I would have gone after other assistants from teams like New England who just came off an impressive year on defense or San Francisco who essentially did the same thing defensively and I would have given one of those guys a shot. 

Anybody but this [BLEEP] guy at this point. Hackett got dropped unfairly IMHO. 2018 we saw the offensive line banged up. And we saw that Bortles couldn't do it on his own neither. But we'll see. I'll be as optimistic as I can possibly be for 2020. But I honestly feel like Khan's a cheapskate when it comes to risks and moving on from lame duck personnel and results. 

There's no reason why Caldwell should still be here. And I honest to God believe that had Coughlin not be outed publicly by the NFLPA and had there not been so much negative press? I highly, HIGHLY doubt he's unemployed right now. Factor in the reports of Marrone being fired as well in December and that information being squashed rather quickly? It just goes to show him and his son have zero clue how to run a team. 

I think they wanted the notoriety of owning a team. But they didn't really want the burden of actually having to develop a winning culture and team. And I think the results speaks for themselves. It's been a decade. And we have one fluke to show for it.

Great post.

Its my draft fault. I get sucked in every damn year with the 'names' and when we draft someone else...but i agree, looking now, we filled holes, hopefully a few can be surprises and while we could have helped more areas we had more holes than draft picks.

Exactly with the D. I would happily shoot Wash into the sun and when Wade Phillip's became available it seemed like a perfect opportunity but no, the same crew return. They seem to be clinging onto 2017 so badly and i cant help but feel they managed to convince Khan they built a SB team and then Coughlin came in and destroyed it and just give them a chance to do it again but like you point out, 2017 was as perfect as some remember. Those losses, we just got past Buffalo. So many of our takeaways that year were fumbles or hurried QB's and thats not neccessarily on Wash or the scheme, that can be a guy making a play.

Really good point with Coughlin and the NFLPA. That report was enough on its own to get him fired without everything else. Coughlin had Khan's ear and i wouldn't have been surprised to see Coughlin given full control to hire and fire. My biggest complaint with Khan, and theres a lot, it annoys me little he seems to know or want to control his team. He seems so reliant on advice from people around him and thats not bad, but i just dont see him saying were signing X and Y but if Coughlin or Caldwell said they wanted them he would go with it. He puts so much time into 'increasing revenue', i just wish hed put as much effort into the product on the field. 

I just have so much hope in Minshew. The kid blew me away, no challenge too big, no fight too hard. Just giving everything and thats all i want. After watching Kessler, those 2 guys went in the same round?! Minshew is what is keeping me going and i just hope we give him the tools to grow and progress and win for us. 

I dont want to see 1st down penalty, 2nd down run, 3rd and 17 give it to Minshew.

(04-27-2020, 03:39 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Whenever your argument in defense of the pass rush includes Bryan, Smoot, Gunter, and an extremely raw rookie you know it's bad.

Ok guy whenever your argument is that our pass rush is gonna be so bad because we lost Calais Campbell and his 6 sacks it sounds bad... start naming teams that even have one pass rusher as talented and productive as josh Allen let alone 2 if yan is back. The list is very short. Like I said smoot had 6 sacks last year in limited snaps say what you want but he’s shown he’s capable. And Bryan we’ve seen his explosiveness we knew he was raw he needs continue his progress it’s not out of the realm to predict he offers a rush up the middle this year

(04-27-2020, 06:37 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2020, 03:39 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Whenever your argument in defense of the pass rush includes Bryan, Smoot, Gunter, and an extremely raw rookie you know it's bad.

Ok guy whenever your argument is that our pass rush is gonna be so bad because we lost Calais Campbell and his 6 sacks it sounds bad... start naming teams that even have one pass rusher as talented and productive as josh Allen let alone 2 if yan is back. The list is very short. Like I said smoot had 6 sacks last year in limited snaps say what you want but he’s shown he’s capable. And Bryan we’ve seen his explosiveness we knew he was raw he needs continue his progress it’s not out of the realm to predict he offers a rush up the middle this year

Is this post real?

First, you’re underestimating Campbell’s value and then you’re asking about who has better pass rushers? Off the top of my head, these are teams with two legit pass rushers.

Broncos: Miller and Chubb
49ers: Bosa and Ford
Chargers: Bosa and Ingram
Packers: Smith bros 
Bears: Quinn and Mack
Steelers: Dupree and Watt
Texans: Mercilus and Watt
Redskins: Sweat, Young and Kerrigan

This list doesn’t include teams with at least one pass rusher like the Browns, Cardinals, Chiefs, Cowboys and others.

(04-27-2020, 06:47 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2020, 06:37 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ]Ok guy whenever your argument is that our pass rush is gonna be so bad because we lost Calais Campbell and his 6 sacks it sounds bad... start naming teams that even have one pass rusher as talented and productive as josh Allen let alone 2 if yan is back. The list is very short. Like I said smoot had 6 sacks last year in limited snaps say what you want but he’s shown he’s capable. And Bryan we’ve seen his explosiveness we knew he was raw he needs continue his progress it’s not out of the realm to predict he offers a rush up the middle this year

Is this post real?

First, you’re underestimating Campbell’s value and then you’re asking about who has better pass rushers? Off the top of my head, these are teams with two legit pass rushers.

Broncos: Miller and Chubb
49ers: Bosa and Ford
Chargers: Bosa and Ingram
Packers: Smith bros 
Bears: Quinn and Mack
Steelers: Dupree and Watt
Texans: Mercilus and Watt
Redskins: Sweat, Young and Kerrigan

This list doesn’t include teams with at least one pass rusher like the Browns, Cardinals, Chiefs, Cowboys and others.

Ok like I said the list is short so maybe a 1/4 of the league has 2 stud level pass rushers. And DeMarcus Lawrence is not on the same level as Allen 

And I know Calais was bigger than his 6 sacks but it’s just the constant overreaction on this board of oh no now are pass rush is terrible like no we had a 21 year old rookie last year with immense upside produce 10 1/2 sacks in 60% of snaps and go to a pro bowl more sacks than Bosa who everyone thinks is the best thing since sliced bread. Allen has 18 sack type of potential. And yan also has the potential for more sacks than he’s produced and he’s definitely gonna be motivated. As does smoot who produced 6 last year and Bryan and Chaisson who is a freak athlete rusher so let’s not act like there won’t be any pass rush

(04-27-2020, 07:02 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2020, 06:47 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Is this post real?

First, you’re underestimating Campbell’s value and then you’re asking about who has better pass rushers? Off the top of my head, these are teams with two legit pass rushers.

Broncos: Miller and Chubb
49ers: Bosa and Ford
Chargers: Bosa and Ingram
Packers: Smith bros 
Bears: Quinn and Mack
Steelers: Dupree and Watt
Texans: Mercilus and Watt
Redskins: Sweat, Young and Kerrigan

This list doesn’t include teams with at least one pass rusher like the Browns, Cardinals, Chiefs, Cowboys and others.

Ok like I said the list is short so maybe a 1/4 of the league has 2 stud level pass rushers. And DeMarcus Lawrence is not on the same level as Allen 

And I know Calais was bigger than his 6 sacks but it’s just the constant overreaction on this board of oh no now are pass rush is terrible like no we had a 21 year old rookie last year with immense upside produce 10 1/2 sacks in 60% of snaps and go to a pro bowl more sacks than Bosa who everyone thinks is the best thing since sliced bread. Allen has 18 sack type of potential. And yan also has the potential for more sacks than he’s produced and he’s definitely gonna be motivated. As does smoot who produced 6 last year and Bryan and Chaisson who is a freak athlete rusher so let’s not act like there won’t be any pass rush

If these players weren’t on the Jags, you would not be saying that. “Hey. I’m a Ravens fan but woooo boy, those Jags pass rushers?! Watch out now!”

1/4 of the league is not a short list anyway. Including the previous 8 duos and the 4 solos, let’s also throw in Bucs, Saints, Vikings... that’s about 15 teams with 1 or more pass rushers.

This pass rush has potential down the line but it all depends on it Allen continues to develop and Chaisson is a bust. Like another poster said, the amount of maybes on this team may be the most of any team in the NFL. So many unknowns that it’s hard to see all of those “maybes” being “yes” at the end of the year.

(04-27-2020, 01:12 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2020, 01:04 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]it going to be near a bottom 5 pass rushing unit instead of top 5, that will have a huge effect on a passing defense and will make the defense just as bad or worse even if the run defense is a lot better

Allen, Yan, and Chaisson isn't a bottom 5 pass rushing unit

I'm not counting Yan as playing until hes on the field. And without him its absolutely a bottom 5 unit, zero good interior pressure players