Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-27-2021, 11:47 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]The front office has been bad for years, but I dont think it's the owners fault right now at least. I believe they are making an honest effort this year. Let's hope for the best. I will always wear my jags stuff even when it's not popular. It felt great in 2017

Yes it is a problem with ownership. He is a builder and is great for nonfootball stuff. He is not functional for on the field stuff and it is lead by front office failures.

Guy lucked into Lawrence. No plan produced that outcome.

(09-27-2021, 10:06 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to Rick Balou today, said he spent a lot of Sunday’s games watching Henderson on the sidelines. According to him, Henderson was in his own world and had no interest in engaging the team. If the man doesn’t want to be here, then not only will he not contribute, but he would be a distraction. I agree, this is a good thing. We offloaded some baggage today. Albeit it was high-priced baggage, it was baggage nonetheless.

That is something this team should have noticed before we drafted him, so we didn't waste a pick. We could've had Tristan Wirfs instead, and filled a real need with a great player. This team just failed at vetting players.

Another disappointment, and we’ll probably be having the same conversation about the old regime when Bryan and chaisson don’t get second contracts, all we can do is hope the new regime fair better and they deserve time to prove it one way or another. There’s obviously a lot more to the Henderson, especially considering Meyer spoke about meeting his parents to discuss the move. Sounds to me like he needed a change of scenery to perhaps help his life more than his career.

Real dissapointed we didn't get to see CJ Henderson vs. Jamar Chase this Thursday in a rematch; was really looking forward to making a part II of my film room series posts for that.

If Henderson is that much of a headcase and will be Isaiah Wilson/Justin Blackmon. Then it makes sense to recoup value. Also if he doesn't plan on resigning with the Jags (the contract expires right when our window to compete opens) it makes sense to get back some value and start banking cap space. I'm just upset at the return we got in this trade. The TE fills a need, it's a guy we wanted in free agency, but for a top 10 pick a year ago who has played well when healthy .... a SINGLE 3rd round pick is just simply not enough, let alone giving a 5th rounder back.... This team feels like a middle school student in GM mode on Madden and the Jags are the CPU that will accept any trade offered.

Like i've been a staunch defender of Henderson bc on the field he's a good player for sure, despite that I was upset at the return. I was also upset at why couldn't we have at least tried to pull off a trade like: CJ Henderson, DJ Chark, 3rd rounder & late rounder to the Saints; Jags received Michael Thomas. Like at least TRY and get back some real return or something that can help Trevor in a more tangible way than "We have a TE that isn't complete garbage"

(09-28-2021, 09:50 AM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]Another disappointment, and we’ll probably be having the same conversation about the old regime when Bryan and chaisson don’t get second contracts, all we can do is hope the new regime fair better and they deserve time to prove it one way or another. There’s obviously a lot more to the Henderson, especially considering Meyer spoke about meeting his parents to discuss the move. Sounds to me like he needed a change of scenery to perhaps help his life more than his career.

Chaisson may work out, He'll resign at a decent rate but not the bank breaking type contract that Yannick wanted, Calais got etc. We knew Chaisson would be a project when we drafted him, he had minimal experience in college due to that injury his sophomore year and being a reserve/role player his sophomore year. He's athletic, he's explosive, he's fast, but he's also RAW!!! He just needs to refine his technique, keep working hard in the weight room, and with more reps/experience he'll get better at finishing plays.

Chaisson is in theory an ideal complementary rusher who can play as a standup rusher in a 3-4 as a Strongside linebacker and offers some + in being able to drop in coverage on TE's and some RB's due to his athleticism. I don't expect him to be a 10 sack a year guy or a blue chip probowl caliber pass rusher like Josh Allen but I do think he could be a 6-8 sack guy who gets consistent pressure and disruption. He'll start to look better as he matures, he's ONLY 22 years old, lets give him time. As we get more talent on the Defense as a whole and especially the DLine/Front 7 it'll only help give him opportunities to shine.

Henderson becomes a pro bowler for the Panthers. #becausejaguars

(09-28-2021, 10:06 AM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2021, 09:50 AM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]Another disappointment, and we’ll probably be having the same conversation about the old regime when Bryan and chaisson don’t get second contracts, all we can do is hope the new regime fair better and they deserve time to prove it one way or another. There’s obviously a lot more to the Henderson, especially considering Meyer spoke about meeting his parents to discuss the move. Sounds to me like he needed a change of scenery to perhaps help his life more than his career.

Chaisson may work out, He'll resign at a decent rate but not the bank breaking type contract that Yannick wanted, Calais got etc.  We knew Chaisson would be a project when we drafted him, he had minimal experience in college due to that injury his sophomore year and being a reserve/role player his sophomore year. He's athletic, he's explosive, he's fast, but he's also RAW!!! He just needs to refine his technique, keep working hard in the weight room, and with more reps/experience he'll get better at finishing plays.

Chaisson is in theory an ideal complementary rusher who can play as a standup rusher in a 3-4 as a Strongside linebacker and offers some + in being able to drop in coverage on TE's and some RB's due to his athleticism. I don't expect him to be a 10 sack a year guy or a blue chip probowl caliber pass rusher like Josh Allen but I do think he could be a 6-8 sack guy who gets consistent pressure and disruption. He'll start to look better as he matures, he's ONLY 22 years old, lets give him time. As we get more talent on the Defense as a whole and especially the DLine/Front 7 it'll only help give him opportunities to shine.

I wasn’t trying to criticise chaisson and I hope he works out it was more of a if it doesn’t work out we’re gonna get countless more posts about the old regime. Thinks it’s important to remember the old regime are the old regime for a reason. We will still have their mistakes for a few more years.

But back to CJ while I keep reading “we should of tried to get more”. Come on people, surly you don’t think they didn’t try to get every thing possible, the bottom line is, it’s pretty much out there (all be it rumours) about his mental health. Other teams will know this and won’t give up much, if it’s got to point we’re he needs to go then you just hve to get what you can and if that’s the best offer then so be it, you have to have a better offer to take a better offer

Does this chart indicate CJ actually pocketed $13 million in Year 1 --- check out the Yearly Cash Column. If that is the case, I can see why certain players just want to pack it up and move on with life (outside of football).

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-pan...son-47602/

I've heard from a number of outside sources and posters here that his head isnt just quite right; lack of motivation, anti-social, who knows. Or, perhaps it's just a smoke screen to get out of Jax, ala Ramsey and his 'bad back'. Or maybe it's real, and for whatever reason, we seem to be the dumping ground for a lot of these Naomi Osaka-type head cases who just end up not wanting to work in thier chosen profession after making some bank and then mentally/emotionally checking out. I wonder what the track record for other franchises that have similar losing records and similar culture is over the years?

(09-27-2021, 12:12 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]It wasn't something behind closed doors. It was wide open and been going on since draft night.

CJ to his bae on the right before the 2020 draft starts:  "Girl, I could wind up playing in L.A. or New York or Chicago.  I'll take you to some of the finest restraurants and we'll hang out at some of the most exclusive clubs and bars.  It's gonna be lit, I promise.  Let's just pray I don't get picked by some place like Jacksonville."

CJ's bae: "That sounds amazing, baby.  I can't wait!  And I'm praying!"

Later that evening...

Goodell coming through the TV speakers: "The Jacksonville Jaguars are now on the clock."

CJ mumbling to himself:  "Please don't pick me, please don't pick me, please don't pick me..."

CJ's phone rings and he exclaims:  "Aw damn [BLEEP] me!"

The woman sitting on the left begins to giggle at CJ's misfortune.

CJ brings the phone to his ear and brings his head down resting his forehead in his other hand and answers: "Hello?"

Caldwell on the line: "Hi CJ, are you ready to be a Jacksonville Jaygwire?"

CJ: "I guess.  I mean, yeah."

CJ's bae sends a text to one of CJ's Gator teammates that's had his eye on her for a while and who will be entering the NFL draft in 2021.

(09-28-2021, 09:21 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2021, 08:43 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]out of 19 games, he's played 10. I think that qualifies as "as much time off the field as on"

I get that injuries happen. He's also had some head-butting with the team, too, where he may have been healthy, but his head wasn't in the game. I'm not happy that we got to the point where moving on was the ideal option. But based on his history, it's understandable. 

To be honest, one of the unsung parts of his game was his ability as a tackler. He wasn't the typical "dive at the ankles and pray" corner that prevails in today's game. CJ would wrap up and make stops. But if he's in a place where he didn't want to be here, or didn't want to do what coaches wanted him to, or couldn't get healthy, then yeah, I'd rather have peanuts than nothing.

---

no, because I don't of.

If a player has been injured for 5 of his 6 seasons, I could understand the availability argument.  To declare a player worthless and trade him for peanuts because of injuries when he's only been in the league 1 year and 3 games is ridiculous.  Again, I ask, if Etienne gets a minor injury early next season, are you advocating trading him for peanuts too?  Injuries happen.

As for Henderson's head not being in the game, a good coach would find a way to get his head into the game.  Even if not, you wait until he gets his head together.  We'll never be a good team if we keep trading away talent for peanuts.

If ETN turns out to be a head case who has to be dragged to practice and visibly shows he doesn't want to play here then I hope we get at least as good a deal for him as we got for this head case who has to be dragged to practice and visibly shows he doesn't want to play here. I'm hopeful that this regime drafted better than the last one in the evaluation of player's mental makeup and attitude even if they've already shown they don't really understand the concept of draft value.

(09-28-2021, 11:30 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2021, 12:12 PM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]It wasn't something behind closed doors. It was wide open and been going on since draft night.

CJ to his bae on the right before the 2020 draft starts:  "Girl, I could wind up playing in L.A. or New York or Chicago.  I'll take you to some of the finest restraurants and we'll hang out at some of the most exclusive clubs and bars.  It's gonna be lit, I promise.  Let's just pray I don't get picked by some place like Jacksonville."

CJ's bae: "That sounds amazing, baby.  I can't wait!  And I'm praying!"

Later that evening...

Goodell coming through the TV speakers: "The Jacksonville Jaguars are now on the clock."

CJ mumbling to himself:  "Please don't pick me, please don't pick me, please don't pick me..."

CJ's phone rings and he exclaims:  "Aw damn [BLEEP] me!"

The woman sitting on the left begins to giggle at CJ's misfortune.

CJ brings the phone to his ear and brings his head down resting his forehead in his other hand and answers: "Hello?"

Caldwell on the line: "Hi CJ, are you ready to be a Jacksonville Jaygwire?"

CJ: "I guess.  I mean, yeah."

CJ's bae sends a text to one of CJ's Gator teammates that's had his eye on her for a while and who will be entering the NFL draft in 2021.

Nice transcript -- lol.

I think the girl is shown texting Jalen out in LA when CJ got the call from the 904.

(09-28-2021, 09:33 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2021, 10:06 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to Rick Balou today, said he spent a lot of Sunday’s games watching Henderson on the sidelines. According to him, Henderson was in his own world and had no interest in engaging the team. If the man doesn’t want to be here, then not only will he not contribute, but he would be a distraction. I agree, this is a good thing. We offloaded some baggage today. Albeit it was high-priced baggage, it was baggage nonetheless.

That is something this team should have noticed before we drafted him, so we didn't waste a pick. We could've had Tristan Wirfs instead, and filled a real need with a great player. This team just failed at vetting players.

Correctomundo. But while I agree that DC made terrible picks, nay, turrible is more apt since it is far worse than terrible, how much did the prior regime rely on the scouts? I think this is a topic that has been overlooked. The last 15 or more years we have made boneheaded draft pick after draft pick. It seems the scouting dept has been below standard for most of that time. We seem to have been dazzled by stats of our high picks without delving deeply enough into the type of person these players were. From drunks to malcontents to spoiled brats to some just not having that inner strength and resolve or motor if you will that takes a player from good or great skill set to elite level The physical tools are only part of the overall content. Yogi Berra may have said it best about  playing ball, to wit, it's 50% physical and 90% mental. This is where our front offices have failed and failed miserably for the most part the last 15, maybe, 20 years. The GMs have failed in their scouting personnel choices.  Mid to late round picks haven't been as bad as the early rounds but not great either. I seem to remember Urbs got rid of some of the scouts after the draft so hopefully it is getting fixed. Until it is I fear we won't get better personnel. I am encouraged by this year's draft however. FA doesn't seem to be terrible yet either. Were mistakes made? Absolutely. Hopefully Urbs has been learning on that front. As NH3 says, Time will tell

Prosser said he looks at the trade as CJ for a third and we are sending a 5th rounder for Arnold.

(09-28-2021, 09:21 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]If a player has been injured for 5 of his 6 seasons, I could understand the availability argument.  To declare a player worthless and trade him for peanuts because of injuries when he's only been in the league 1 year and 3 games is ridiculous.  Again, I ask, if Etienne gets a minor injury early next season, are you advocating trading him for peanuts too?  Injuries happen.

As for Henderson's head not being in the game, a good coach would find a way to get his head into the game.  Even if not, you wait until he gets his head together.  We'll never be a good team if we keep trading away talent for peanuts.

To answer your hyperbole, no, I wouldn't trade Etienne away solely because of injury. I wouldn't have and didn't say the only reason Henderson was traded was due to injury.

If Etienne pulls a CJ/Jalen/Yannick and basically says poop on yous guys I ain't playin, you darn right I send his hiney packing too.

So if you spend the next two seasons trying to get CJ's head straight, or his desire to play on a perennial loser, or his enjoyment of the game back, and it never works, what have you gained? What have you missed out on, both in trade capital and time you could have been focusing on the guys that are actually pushing to improve and form this team's future?

If this were a sprained ankle or bum shoulder, sure. Take some time. See if you can recover and get back to form. That's not what was at play here and we all know it. Don't play dumb.

---

(09-28-2021, 09:33 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2021, 10:06 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to Rick Balou today, said he spent a lot of Sunday’s games watching Henderson on the sidelines. According to him, Henderson was in his own world and had no interest in engaging the team. If the man doesn’t want to be here, then not only will he not contribute, but he would be a distraction. I agree, this is a good thing. We offloaded some baggage today. Albeit it was high-priced baggage, it was baggage nonetheless.

That is something this team should have noticed before we drafted him, so we didn't waste a pick. We could've had Tristan Wirfs instead, and filled a real need with a great player. This team just failed at vetting players.

You and I both know that based on Dave's history he'd have simply taken the next CB on his board if CJ was dinged for personality traits.

Wasn’t there a rumor that Dave turned down a trade back with Atlanta? I think they wanted CJ.


In the world of make believe:
They would have taken Chaisson at that point. Then they probably take Jefferson at the Chaisson spot. Plus a bonus pick or two.

Total hypothetical of course, but I think the story that came out about the Jags draft room indicated this outcome.

(09-28-2021, 11:09 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]I've heard from a number of outside sources and posters here that his head isnt just quite right; lack of motivation, anti-social, who knows.  Or, perhaps it's just a smoke screen to get out of Jax, ala Ramsey and his 'bad back'.  Or maybe it's real, and for whatever reason, we seem to be the dumping ground for a lot of these Naomi Osaka-type head cases who just end up not wanting to work in thier chosen profession after making some bank and then mentally/emotionally checking out.  I wonder what the track record for other franchises that have similar losing records and similar culture is over the years?

Perhaps CJ got the Twisties

These fantasies about landing some other great talent at 9 last year probably lead us to the 2nd or 3rd pick this year, instead of Lawrence. I’m not saying don’t be mad about the pick, but keep things in perspective.

(09-28-2021, 04:59 PM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn’t there a rumor that Dave turned down a trade back with Atlanta?  I think they wanted CJ.


In the world of make believe:
They would have taken Chaisson at that point.  Then they probably take Jefferson at the Chaisson spot.  Plus a bonus pick or two.

Total hypothetical of course, but I think the story that came out about the Jags draft room indicated this outcome.

I would take Lawrence over Jefferson. If we take Jefferson or anyone else, who knows what happens next year.

(09-28-2021, 09:46 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2021, 04:59 PM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn’t there a rumor that Dave turned down a trade back with Atlanta?  I think they wanted CJ.


In the world of make believe:
They would have taken Chaisson at that point.  Then they probably take Jefferson at the Chaisson spot.  Plus a bonus pick or two.

Total hypothetical of course, but I think the story that came out about the Jags draft room indicated this outcome.

I would take Lawrence over Jefferson. If we take Jefferson or anyone else, who knows what happens next year.

If we took JJ and Wirfs I don't think we get Lawrence.  We lost a few close games