(09-27-2021, 04:02 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 01:49 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much what I was saying. I don't think this trade is because of his play on the field. Henderson is a weird dude
Let's all give a crap what a nobody backup in a [BLEEP] room of nobody backups has to say.
Seriously. Not a fan of CJ at all... but who the [BLEEP] cares what backup [BLEEP] publix bagboys say?
Lol tell me you know nothing about the team without telling me you know nothing about the team.
(09-27-2021, 04:49 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 04:02 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Let's all give a crap what a nobody backup in a [BLEEP] room of nobody backups has to say.
Seriously. Not a fan of CJ at all... but who the [BLEEP] cares what backup [BLEEP] publix bagboys say?
Lol tell me you know nothing about the team without telling me you know nothing about the team.
He has proven that over and over lol
Just for locker room sake it appears to be a good move. I see one player in a round about way say he won't be missed. I do not see anyone coming forward saying how they hate the move either. Head case who could or could not turn it around. It appears Carolina is going to gamble on him.
(09-27-2021, 04:49 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 04:02 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Let's all give a crap what a nobody backup in a [BLEEP] room of nobody backups has to say.
Seriously. Not a fan of CJ at all... but who the [BLEEP] cares what backup [BLEEP] publix bagboys say?
Lol tell me you know nothing about the team without telling me you know nothing about the team.
The team doesn't even know the team.
Every player in that locker room with the exception of two, (Trevor Lawrence and James Robiinson), is a backup and nothing more.
(09-27-2021, 04:36 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 11:49 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]This franchise is awful and I have a sinking suspicion the NFLPA has it out for the team. Those grievances that we know of are probably tip of the iceberg stuff.
We mistreat players that perform on the field. They gave contracts early to the wrong players. The stories on Caldwell were horrible and it speaks very poorly about the owner.
The owner tolerates all the wrong behavior and holds the players to a higher standard then his front office and coaches.
I am not a big pro player advocate but I can't imagine being with this team the past 12 years. It has been double talk and a complete nightmare outside of one year. And then the franchise kept pointing at 2017 as if they did something.
Overall, I am in agreement with you.
The few good layers we actually draft are almost always alienated by the team, and when it comes to the second contract, most of the top performers never get one.
Like Fournette, Henderson never even got close to the end of his first contract.
Khan tolerating it? I'm beginning to think he ENCOURAGES this sort of thing. It has happened way too often during his tenure as owner for me to think it's not policy at this point.
I have not heard any stories about Caldwell, other than the thing with Ramsey.
I shudder to think what will happen if Lawrence is all we expect him to be and it comes time to re-signing him.
Losing sits badly with some owners but it doesn't seem to with Khan. He seems to publicly act like the on the field product matters but I think he would rather have Lot J, Shipyards or other projects over on the field stuff.
I get being patient but the decisions are historically stupid. This franchise is wearing me down. My wife has moved on and she is from Jacksonville. I do see improvements but jeez outside of Lawrence we have just some guys.
I am so sour on the off season and I am trying to move on but all those darn Tebow Jersey sales rubbed me the wrong way. And the way the last coaching staff screwed over Minshew irks me.
It has to be a problem at the top.
(09-27-2021, 04:58 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 04:49 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]Lol tell me you know nothing about the team without telling me you know nothing about the team.
The team doesn't even know the team.
Every player in that locker room with the exception of two, (Trevor Lawrence and James Robiinson), is a backup and nothing more.
There is a couple more like Norwell but for the most part right. Most of the roster would be backups on most teams.
There is also a history of Jags fans to overhype players
Chark: I keep hearing how good he is but good for one splash play a game if that. I am not seeing a true #1
Jack: I keep hearing how good he is but I constantly see him out of place or just missing tackles
Linder; He has been below average this entire year. Has a bad injury history too!
This team may be in for another 3 year rebuild. I do not believe this past offseason was good value for the draft capital we had and the cap room. Meyer saying he likes this team maybe a clue he could be in over his head.
(09-27-2021, 12:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I am quickly losing faith in this team. I never liked the Henderson selection and was very vocal about it. I was one of the many, many, many people on this board who were banging the table to draft Tristan Wirfs. It seemed like such an obvious choice at the time and Henderson seemed like just as much a reach as Chaisson was with our other pick in round one. We missed out though and I finally accepted it, knowing there was nothing I could do. I wanted Henderson to succeed and prove me wrong. Now, here we are with a terrible secondary and out of nowhere, we trade Henderson for a so-so TE and basically, the equivalent of a 4th round pick once the 3rd and 5th offset. Just another wasted first round selection by this team and yet another example of holding onto a guy (Caldwell) too long and letting him set this team back yet another year by his bad decisions. It's just so depressing.
Now, I have to ask, how long before we ditch K'Lavon Chaisson? He has been a disaster since coming here and only has one sack since turning pro. IMO, he and Henderson were such odd first round choices that I have to question whether Caldwell knew his days were numbered in Jacksonville and decided to tank that draft on purpose? His selections just seemed like such huge reaches.
Despite this, it still seems like we could have gotten a straight up 3rd round selection for Henderson, even if Dan Arnold were involved in the trade given Henderson's very limited time in the NFL, . He is young and still shows some potential. He certainly shows better ball skills than what I have seen from Tyson Campbell, although I will admit, that isn't setting the bar very high. I guess the confirmation that the Henderson pick was so bad, this early into his career, is a real letdown. Even though many of us believed it from the moment he was drafted, finally seeing him traded away for so little, finally made it hit home. We have wasted so much time and dug ourselves into such a deep hole over the decades that it almost seems hopeless. I'm still a HUGE Trevor Lawrence supporter and see tons of potential in him, but this team is so void of talent around him. It just seems like a never ending process of filling holes created by draft picks that never panned out.
First off, I too was against the CJ Henderson selection. I too, wanted Wirfs, Jeudy, Ruggs, or anyone else that would have given us a better indicia whether Minshew was truly the answer at QB. If Minshew was not the answer as he ultimately proved hte presence of Wirfs or Jeudy or Ruggs or whomever would make things easier for the replacement.
But CJ Henderson has given the team some decent play at CB, even with his injuries, even with the off field speculation. There is some reason to be disappointed with this trade. Chaisson? I HATED the pick when it was made, and there has been NOTHING Chaisson has done since his selection to make me change my mind. I will be glad when he is gone.
Have I lost faith in this organization?
Yes.
It's one thing to miss on a lot of draft picks. Lots of things can go into whether a draft pick succeed or fails. It happens.
It's another thing to actually hit on players and time after time after time let them walk away or trade them away. It makes it impossible to show sustained improvement always keeps us drafting on a treadmill, and keeps us at the bottom of the standings. It seems purposeful futility the way so many players are alienated from this organization. All of the players who leave or get shipped out are painted by the local media and fan base as malcontents who are anathema to winning. Yet player after player...from Allen Robinson to Jalen Ramsey...to Calais Campbell to Leonard Fournette to Yannick Ngakoue have all gone to winning teams. The Bears, Rams, Ravens, Bucs have all been to the playoffs with players we've concluded are too selfish to win with. Fournette managed to win a Super Bowl and has been a key contributor. Ngakoue bounced around from Minnesota and Baltimore before winding up with the Raiders. With him, the Raiders are currently 3-0. Yes, we managed to sign Tevin Smith to a second contract, but we still don't know what made him step away from the team. He had some off filed issues, but also expressed some dissatisfaction with the team. If the team knew there were off field issues that made him too destructive to keep, why not allocate his money to another deserving player? Since we purged the roster of all these players, what have we accomplished? Two losing seasons? A 1-15 season and an 0-3 start to the next year? Speculation we may break the Bucs' longstanding record of consecutive losses? We managed to get two first round picks and a 4th for Ramsey, and turned them into Chaisson and a currently out for the season Travis Etienne, and traded up in the 4th round for Jordan Smith...a guy who hasn't sniffed the field. What did we get for Ngakoue? A 2 and a 5 from Minnesota. We turned that 2nd round pick into Walker Little...a guy who hasn't been active three games into the season.
At what point do we start to actually accumulate good talent?
CJ’s talent is undeniable. If he ever decides to dedicate himself to his craft then he will be an above average player at his position.
There is definitely fire somewhere around this franchise. Smoke is everywhere on them blowing contracts, drafts and well football operations. Still waiting for improvement that points to potential. Wins will come if you show the right kind of improvement. Cards game was OK and had a sprinkling of possibilities. I real hope they play strongly on the quick turn around to Thursday because it will say something about the coaching.
(09-27-2021, 04:17 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 12:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Plenty of evidence he's bad? Lmao He was 2nd team All SEC 2 years in college, 1st team his last year. Only gave up one TD his whole college career. He's only played in 10 games and his first NFL game he dominated and was player of the game. He was clearly our best corner when you watched them play. He has played 10 career games, if he gets healthy we will see how he does in Car.
Derek Cox had a fantastic first game with us.
So, sure, we'll say CJ was the second coming of Derek Cox.
The kid may have potential. But the fact that he spent as much time off the field as on renders that potential useless.
And you are saying this after week 3 of only his second season?!?!? Injuries happen. If Etienne happens to get injured next year, are we trading him for a peanuts too? I'm glad Meyer/Baalke weren't around the Jaguars in the 90's. They would have probably traded Fred Taylor for a late round pick.
(09-27-2021, 04:36 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 11:49 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]This franchise is awful and I have a sinking suspicion the NFLPA has it out for the team. Those grievances that we know of are probably tip of the iceberg stuff.
We mistreat players that perform on the field. They gave contracts early to the wrong players. The stories on Caldwell were horrible and it speaks very poorly about the owner.
The owner tolerates all the wrong behavior and holds the players to a higher standard then his front office and coaches.
I am not a big pro player advocate but I can't imagine being with this team the past 12 years. It has been double talk and a complete nightmare outside of one year. And then the franchise kept pointing at 2017 as if they did something.
Overall, I am in agreement with you.
The few good layers we actually draft are almost always alienated by the team, and when it comes to the second contract, most of the top performers never get one.
Like Fournette, Henderson never even got close to the end of his first contract.
Khan tolerating it? I'm beginning to think he ENCOURAGES this sort of thing. It has happened way too often during his tenure as owner for me to think it's not policy at this point.
I have not heard any stories about Caldwell, other than the thing with Ramsey.
I shudder to think what will happen if Lawrence is all we expect him to be and it comes time to re-signing him.
Completely agree Bullseye and been saying this for a while. The fact all of our talented players want out is a huge red flag yet time and again we call the player a 'diva' or a 'problem'. A lot of this teams problems started in that closet in Houston with Ramsey. We let most of that 2017 D walk out and not got much in return and wasted what we did get.
I watched the Bucs 'Americas Game' the other day and Fournette was one of the players talking through the season and he said how he thought he'd be in Jacksonville for a long time and spent the first half of the year with the Bucs upset that we had cut him and took him a while to process it.
I see people saying Henderson was a bust and good riddance but this idea that if a rookie doesnt immediately play at an all pro level then hes no good. Its nuts. Sam Darnold was a bust and no good for the Jets but hes not looking too bad this season.
And thats the giant elephant in the room with Lawrence. We cant screw that one up.
This thread is very entertaining. Either Henderson was garbage from the beginning and a complete indictment on the club or he was a superstar that the club failed to develop. Good news is that no matter how Henderson does in Charlotte, the club sucks. United is disdain. At least the posters are united.
I’ve got to find the thread with the supporters. I can make up reasons to hate on anything with the letter J all by myself.
This front office sucks again!!!
Not that I think CJ was a good pick but they sure want to lock up a bunch of mid round picks.
Hopefully we lose to the Jets later in the year so we get that number one pick
Why do I get the feeling that Henderson will ball out w/his new team.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
(09-27-2021, 03:56 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We need to draft Elam if we are staying out of the top 5
No way. No more Gators in round one. We seem to get burned almost every time.
Which fifth did we give up? Hopefully not ours
(09-27-2021, 06:53 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]Why do I get the feeling that Henderson will ball out w/his new team.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
Just depends if he wants to play football or feels stuck doing it. Too many players now have no drive to win and he seems like he just plays because he was good at it and he couldn't pass up the money.
Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk
(09-27-2021, 06:56 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 03:56 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We need to draft Elam if we are staying out of the top 5
No way. No more Gators in round one. We seem to get burned almost every time.
You wouldn't of taken Pitts?
(09-27-2021, 05:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 12:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I am quickly losing faith in this team. I never liked the Henderson selection and was very vocal about it. I was one of the many, many, many people on this board who were banging the table to draft Tristan Wirfs. It seemed like such an obvious choice at the time and Henderson seemed like just as much a reach as Chaisson was with our other pick in round one. We missed out though and I finally accepted it, knowing there was nothing I could do. I wanted Henderson to succeed and prove me wrong. Now, here we are with a terrible secondary and out of nowhere, we trade Henderson for a so-so TE and basically, the equivalent of a 4th round pick once the 3rd and 5th offset. Just another wasted first round selection by this team and yet another example of holding onto a guy (Caldwell) too long and letting him set this team back yet another year by his bad decisions. It's just so depressing.
Now, I have to ask, how long before we ditch K'Lavon Chaisson? He has been a disaster since coming here and only has one sack since turning pro. IMO, he and Henderson were such odd first round choices that I have to question whether Caldwell knew his days were numbered in Jacksonville and decided to tank that draft on purpose? His selections just seemed like such huge reaches.
Despite this, it still seems like we could have gotten a straight up 3rd round selection for Henderson, even if Dan Arnold were involved in the trade given Henderson's very limited time in the NFL, . He is young and still shows some potential. He certainly shows better ball skills than what I have seen from Tyson Campbell, although I will admit, that isn't setting the bar very high. I guess the confirmation that the Henderson pick was so bad, this early into his career, is a real letdown. Even though many of us believed it from the moment he was drafted, finally seeing him traded away for so little, finally made it hit home. We have wasted so much time and dug ourselves into such a deep hole over the decades that it almost seems hopeless. I'm still a HUGE Trevor Lawrence supporter and see tons of potential in him, but this team is so void of talent around him. It just seems like a never ending process of filling holes created by draft picks that never panned out.
First off, I too was against the CJ Henderson selection. I too, wanted Wirfs, Jeudy, Ruggs, or anyone else that would have given us a better indicia whether Minshew was truly the answer at QB. If Minshew was not the answer as he ultimately proved hte presence of Wirfs or Jeudy or Ruggs or whomever would make things easier for the replacement.
But CJ Henderson has given the team some decent play at CB, even with his injuries, even with the off field speculation. There is some reason to be disappointed with this trade. Chaisson? I HATED the pick when it was made, and there has been NOTHING Chaisson has done since his selection to make me change my mind. I will be glad when he is gone.
Have I lost faith in this organization?
Yes.
It's one thing to miss on a lot of draft picks. Lots of things can go into whether a draft pick succeed or fails. It happens.
It's another thing to actually hit on players and time after time after time let them walk away or trade them away. It makes it impossible to show sustained improvement always keeps us drafting on a treadmill, and keeps us at the bottom of the standings. It seems purposeful futility the way so many players are alienated from this organization. All of the players who leave or get shipped out are painted by the local media and fan base as malcontents who are anathema to winning. Yet player after player...from Allen Robinson to Jalen Ramsey...to Calais Campbell to Leonard Fournette to Yannick Ngakoue have all gone to winning teams. The Bears, Rams, Ravens, Bucs have all been to the playoffs with players we've concluded are too selfish to win with. Fournette managed to win a Super Bowl and has been a key contributor. Ngakoue bounced around from Minnesota and Baltimore before winding up with the Raiders. With him, the Raiders are currently 3-0. Yes, we managed to sign Tevin Smith to a second contract, but we still don't know what made him step away from the team. He had some off filed issues, but also expressed some dissatisfaction with the team. If the team knew there were off field issues that made him too destructive to keep, why not allocate his money to another deserving player? Since we purged the roster of all these players, what have we accomplished? Two losing seasons? A 1-15 season and an 0-3 start to the next year? Speculation we may break the Bucs' longstanding record of consecutive losses? We managed to get two first round picks and a 4th for Ramsey, and turned them into Chaisson and a currently out for the season Travis Etienne, and traded up in the 4th round for Jordan Smith...a guy who hasn't sniffed the field. What did we get for Ngakoue? A 2 and a 5 from Minnesota. We turned that 2nd round pick into Walker Little...a guy who hasn't been active three games into the season.
At what point do we start to actually accumulate good talent?
I understand what you are saying 100% and I agree completely. Rooting for this team is a lot like having a cheating wife. She does it over and over and you keep taking her back, but at what point do you say, enough is enough and cut ties? Nothing ever seems to change with this team. It's just the same stuff over and over. Are we cursed?
(09-27-2021, 07:06 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 05:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]First off, I too was against the CJ Henderson selection. I too, wanted Wirfs, Jeudy, Ruggs, or anyone else that would have given us a better indicia whether Minshew was truly the answer at QB. If Minshew was not the answer as he ultimately proved hte presence of Wirfs or Jeudy or Ruggs or whomever would make things easier for the replacement.
But CJ Henderson has given the team some decent play at CB, even with his injuries, even with the off field speculation. There is some reason to be disappointed with this trade. Chaisson? I HATED the pick when it was made, and there has been NOTHING Chaisson has done since his selection to make me change my mind. I will be glad when he is gone.
Have I lost faith in this organization?
Yes.
It's one thing to miss on a lot of draft picks. Lots of things can go into whether a draft pick succeed or fails. It happens.
It's another thing to actually hit on players and time after time after time let them walk away or trade them away. It makes it impossible to show sustained improvement always keeps us drafting on a treadmill, and keeps us at the bottom of the standings. It seems purposeful futility the way so many players are alienated from this organization. All of the players who leave or get shipped out are painted by the local media and fan base as malcontents who are anathema to winning. Yet player after player...from Allen Robinson to Jalen Ramsey...to Calais Campbell to Leonard Fournette to Yannick Ngakoue have all gone to winning teams. The Bears, Rams, Ravens, Bucs have all been to the playoffs with players we've concluded are too selfish to win with. Fournette managed to win a Super Bowl and has been a key contributor. Ngakoue bounced around from Minnesota and Baltimore before winding up with the Raiders. With him, the Raiders are currently 3-0. Yes, we managed to sign Tevin Smith to a second contract, but we still don't know what made him step away from the team. He had some off filed issues, but also expressed some dissatisfaction with the team. If the team knew there were off field issues that made him too destructive to keep, why not allocate his money to another deserving player? Since we purged the roster of all these players, what have we accomplished? Two losing seasons? A 1-15 season and an 0-3 start to the next year? Speculation we may break the Bucs' longstanding record of consecutive losses? We managed to get two first round picks and a 4th for Ramsey, and turned them into Chaisson and a currently out for the season Travis Etienne, and traded up in the 4th round for Jordan Smith...a guy who hasn't sniffed the field. What did we get for Ngakoue? A 2 and a 5 from Minnesota. We turned that 2nd round pick into Walker Little...a guy who hasn't been active three games into the season.
At what point do we start to actually accumulate good talent?
I understand what you are saying 100% and I agree completely. Rooting for this team is a lot like having a cheating wife. She does it over and over and you keep taking her back, but at what point do you say, enough is enough and cut ties? Nothing ever seems to change with this team. It's just the same stuff over and over. Are we cursed?
Some franchises just can’t put it together and then all of a sudden, it clicks for whatever reason. The Pats with Brady and Belicheck. Maybe the Browns with Stefanski/Berry.
I think when it finally does click for Jacksonville, it’s going to be so worth it. Trust me. I’m a Caps fan for hockey and it was rough for a while but when they won the Cup a few years ago, it was the absolute best. I ran down my street drinking beers with my neighbors and then we watched highlights and the game all over again until 4am. Pure joy man.