1. Walker
33. Walker
65. Parham
70. Kerby Joseph
(04-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]1. Walker
33. Walker
65. Parham
70. Kerby Joseph
3 defensive players and a guard?!
My goodness.
(04-25-2022, 03:53 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 03:30 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]1. Walker
33. Walker
65. Parham
70. Kerby Joseph
3 defensive players and a guard?!
My goodness.
Lol, the question wasn't what I want to do. I think they feel pretty confident (not saying I do) in like 9 starters on the offense after adding 4 highly paid FA.
They are going to pick Sauce Gardner
Alright, I am going into this draft supporting the QB as much as possible. I am calling San Francisco and making a move to swap first and maybe a bit more for Deebo Samuel. If I can't work it out then I'm calling Seattle and see if we can work out a swap of first rounders for DK Metcalf. If I can't work out either and stuck with the pick, I am going with the safe bet in Hutchinson. At least he should be a 6-8 sack guy but could also become a 12+ sack guy. Tavon Walker is interesting but I do not think this team should gamble.
You?
(04-25-2022, 06:09 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Alright, I am going into this draft supporting the QB as much as possible. I am calling San Francisco and making a move to swap first and maybe a bit more for Deebo Samuel. If I can't work it out then I'm calling Seattle and see if we can work out a swap of first rounders for DK Metcalf. If I can't work out either and stuck with the pick, I am going with the safe bet in Hutchinson. At least he should be a 6-8 sack guy but could also become a 12+ sack guy. Tavon Walker is interesting but I do not think this team should gamble.
You?
I’m with you on the DK trade. I don’t think it is a popular opinion but how [BLEEP] awesome would it be to have a Trevor to DK connection for the next 5-10 years. Samuel is more risky imo because he doesn’t appear to want to continue playing the position that he had all his stats at(rb/wr) last year which is what I would want him to play and really the only reason I would give up the #1 pick.
Otherwise If I’m stuck with the pick I am probably going Hutch with the surprise pick being sauce if my scouts say he is everything that he appears to be draft grade wise.
(04-25-2022, 06:20 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 06:09 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Alright, I am going into this draft supporting the QB as much as possible. I am calling San Francisco and making a move to swap first and maybe a bit more for Deebo Samuel. If I can't work it out then I'm calling Seattle and see if we can work out a swap of first rounders for DK Metcalf. If I can't work out either and stuck with the pick, I am going with the safe bet in Hutchinson. At least he should be a 6-8 sack guy but could also become a 12+ sack guy. Tavon Walker is interesting but I do not think this team should gamble.
You?
I’m with you on the DK trade. I don’t think it is a popular opinion but how [BLEEP] awesome would it be to have a Trevor to DK connection for the next 5-10 years. Samuel is more risky imo because he doesn’t appear to want to continue playing the position that he had all his stats at(rb/wr) last year which is what I would want him to play and really the only reason I would give up the #1 pick.
Otherwise If I’m stuck with the pick I am probably going Hutch with the surprise pick being sauce if my scouts say he is everything that he appears to be draft grade wise.
That's just not true though, he was plenty productive already as a WR before he started getting carries. Up until week 9, Deebo had only 6 carries throughout 8 games. 2 carries in week 2 for 8 yards. 2 in week 3 for 0 yards. 1 in week 4 for 1 yard and 1 in week 5 for 13 yards and a TD. His receiving numbers during that stretch... 49 catches for 882 yards and 4 TDs. 4 100+ yard receiving games during that stretch 189, 156, 100 and 171.
Week 9-17 (he missed week 12) is when they started to really give him carries, he got 5-8 carries per game during that stretch. His receiving numbers during those games. 28 catches for 523 yards and 2 TDs. Only 1 100+ receiving yards game during that stretch, 159. 3 weeks in a row he only logged 1 catch as well, weeks 10, 11 and 13.
His receiving targets went from an average of 11 targets per game during week 1-8, down to an average of 5 targets per game during week 9-17. Now granted you could argue that he got those targets in carries, but he was already very productive as a WR during the 1st half of the season. I don't see any reason why his receiving production would have just suddenly dropped off if they didn't start giving him carries and just kept feeding him in the passing game.
(04-25-2022, 06:09 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Alright, I am going into this draft supporting the QB as much as possible. I am calling San Francisco and making a move to swap first and maybe a bit more for Deebo Samuel. If I can't work it out then I'm calling Seattle and see if we can work out a swap of first rounders for DK Metcalf. If I can't work out either and stuck with the pick, I am going with the safe bet in Hutchinson. At least he should be a 6-8 sack guy but could also become a 12+ sack guy. Tavon Walker is interesting but I do not think this team should gamble.
You?
I remember wanting DK Metcalf at 7 a few years ago.. then watching him fall past our 2nd round pick and losing my [BLEEP] when we didn't take him. What a massive failure that turned out to be lol.
(04-25-2022, 09:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 06:20 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]I’m with you on the DK trade. I don’t think it is a popular opinion but how [BLEEP] awesome would it be to have a Trevor to DK connection for the next 5-10 years. Samuel is more risky imo because he doesn’t appear to want to continue playing the position that he had all his stats at(rb/wr) last year which is what I would want him to play and really the only reason I would give up the #1 pick.
Otherwise If I’m stuck with the pick I am probably going Hutch with the surprise pick being sauce if my scouts say he is everything that he appears to be draft grade wise.
That's just not true though, he was plenty productive already as a WR before he started getting carries. Up until week 9, Deebo had only 6 carries throughout 8 games. 2 carries in week 2 for 8 yards. 2 in week 3 for 0 yards. 1 in week 4 for 1 yard and 1 in week 5 for 13 yards and a TD. His receiving numbers during that stretch... 49 catches for 882 yards and 4 TDs. 4 100+ yard receiving games during that stretch 189, 156, 100 and 171.
Week 9-17 (he missed week 12) is when they started to really give him carries, he got 5-8 carries per game during that stretch. His receiving numbers during those games. 28 catches for 523 yards and 2 TDs. Only 1 100+ receiving yards game during that stretch, 159. 3 weeks in a row he only logged 1 catch as well, weeks 10, 11 and 13.
His receiving targets went from an average of 11 targets per game during week 1-8, down to an average of 5 targets per game during week 9-17. Now granted you could argue that he got those targets in carries, but he was already very productive as a WR during the 1st half of the season. I don't see any reason why his receiving production would have just suddenly dropped off if they didn't start giving him carries and just kept feeding him in the passing game.
It’s not true about the stats or that he does not want to continue playing out of the back field. You are right about the stats continuing to rise but do you think that keeps him the conversation for warranting the 1st over all pick? Getting a guy who can be a dual threat at least to me puts him I that conversation. Otherwise I’d rather have DK if we are talking pure WR. But overall you are right about his stats.
I was just pitching at the hypothetical of trading a player for the 1st
(04-25-2022, 09:22 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 09:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]That's just not true though, he was plenty productive already as a WR before he started getting carries. Up until week 9, Deebo had only 6 carries throughout 8 games. 2 carries in week 2 for 8 yards. 2 in week 3 for 0 yards. 1 in week 4 for 1 yard and 1 in week 5 for 13 yards and a TD. His receiving numbers during that stretch... 49 catches for 882 yards and 4 TDs. 4 100+ yard receiving games during that stretch 189, 156, 100 and 171.
Week 9-17 (he missed week 12) is when they started to really give him carries, he got 5-8 carries per game during that stretch. His receiving numbers during those games. 28 catches for 523 yards and 2 TDs. Only 1 100+ receiving yards game during that stretch, 159. 3 weeks in a row he only logged 1 catch as well, weeks 10, 11 and 13.
His receiving targets went from an average of 11 targets per game during week 1-8, down to an average of 5 targets per game during week 9-17. Now granted you could argue that he got those targets in carries, but he was already very productive as a WR during the 1st half of the season. I don't see any reason why his receiving production would have just suddenly dropped off if they didn't start giving him carries and just kept feeding him in the passing game.
It’s not true about the stats or that he does not want to continue playing out of the back field. You are right about the stats continuing to rise but do you think that keeps him the conversation for warranting the 1st over all pick? Getting a guy who can be a dual threat at least to me puts him I that conversation. Otherwise I’d rather have DK if we are talking pure WR. But overall you are right about his stats.
I was just pitching at the hypothetical of trading a player for the 1st
Oh no, I would absolutely not give up the #1 pick for Deebo or DK, unless those teams were adding some serious compensation to go along with said players.
I also don't blame him for not wanting to play out of the backfield as much either. Just ups the risk of injury/wear and tear.
(04-25-2022, 09:25 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 09:22 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not true about the stats or that he does not want to continue playing out of the back field. You are right about the stats continuing to rise but do you think that keeps him the conversation for warranting the 1st over all pick? Getting a guy who can be a dual threat at least to me puts him I that conversation. Otherwise I’d rather have DK if we are talking pure WR. But overall you are right about his stats.
I was just pitching at the hypothetical of trading a player for the 1st
Oh no, I would absolutely not give up the #1 pick for Deebo or DK, unless those teams were adding some serious compensation to go along with said players.
I also don't blame him for not wanting to play out of the backfield as much either. Just ups the risk of injury/wear and tear.
A month ago I would have shared that sentiment. I expected a little shake up like every year but honestly the top has more uncertainty than I would have liked while holding the #1. The more things get shook up the less confident I feel about hitting a homerun with this pick which we really need.
I guess it’s sort of a “devil you know” situation to me. And someone who is young and has already shown flashes is better than someone with the question marks that most of these picks seem to have.
(04-25-2022, 09:48 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 09:25 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Oh no, I would absolutely not give up the #1 pick for Deebo or DK, unless those teams were adding some serious compensation to go along with said players.
I also don't blame him for not wanting to play out of the backfield as much either. Just ups the risk of injury/wear and tear.
A month ago I would have shared that sentiment. I expected a little shake up like every year but honestly the top has more uncertainty than I would have liked while holding the #1. The more things get shook up the less confident I feel about hitting a homerun with this pick which we really need.
I guess it’s sort of a “devil you know” situation to me. And someone who is young and has already shown flashes is better than someone with the question marks that most of these picks seem to have.
It comes down to $$ though as well. Not only would you be giving up the #1 pick, but now you instantly have to pay them a huge contract on top of that. Both of them are on the final year of their contracts. They'll both be Free Agents after this season and both are going to want top WR $$.
(04-25-2022, 01:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 01:05 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Walker is the odds on favorite.
I'll miss ya if you go bud.
Thanks. Hopefully, it doesn't play out like that and we do the smart thing though. At some point people need to get out of abusive relationships and being a Jaguars fan is a lot like being in a long term relationship with a woman that constantly cheats on you and beats you. There has to be a breaking point and mine would be drafting Travon Walker.
But what if the team is RIGHT to take Walker?
What if Walker turns out being the best player overall?
I don't think that's the case, but if we're wrong on that...then what?
What if with Walker, the Jaguars show improvement in defense and, ultimately, in the W-L column?
Do you return to the fold?
I echo the sentiments expressed earlier that your input would be missed.
But I also remember some other wild what ifs from you about jumping off a bridge, punching a hole through the wall, etc.
.gif "Laughing")
(04-25-2022, 09:48 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 09:25 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Oh no, I would absolutely not give up the #1 pick for Deebo or DK, unless those teams were adding some serious compensation to go along with said players.
I also don't blame him for not wanting to play out of the backfield as much either. Just ups the risk of injury/wear and tear.
A month ago I would have shared that sentiment. I expected a little shake up like every year but honestly the top has more uncertainty than I would have liked while holding the #1. The more things get shook up the less confident I feel about hitting a homerun with this pick which we really need.
I guess it’s sort of a “devil you know” situation to me. And someone who is young and has already shown flashes is better than someone with the question marks that most of these picks seem to have.
I would swap 1st with either with either team for DK or Deebo, and maybe add some late picks to sweeten the deal for them.
(04-25-2022, 10:47 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 09:07 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Why franchise tag Cam Robinson and why are there reports that they are negotiating an extension with him? I find the chances of the Jaguars taking an offensive tackle #1 overall to be slim.
You do know there are two tackles on the field, right?
Most fans seem to think Taylor is bad so that means it's not a surprise if they want to improve that position. There are of course implications from re-signing Cam and drafting another tackle at 1.
First, they also have Walker Little who they drafted last year in the early second round.
Second, you don't draft an offensive tackle at #1 overall to play right tackle. The positional value isn't there. If you took one, it would be to play left tackle which is Cam Robinson's position.
(04-25-2022, 10:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 01:34 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks. Hopefully, it doesn't play out like that and we do the smart thing though. At some point people need to get out of abusive relationships and being a Jaguars fan is a lot like being in a long term relationship with a woman that constantly cheats on you and beats you. There has to be a breaking point and mine would be drafting Travon Walker.
But what if the team is RIGHT to take Walker?
What if Walker turns out being the best player overall?
I don't think that's the case, but if we're wrong on that...then what?
What if with Walker, the Jaguars show improvement in defense and, ultimately, in the W-L column?
Do you return to the fold?
I echo the sentiments expressed earlier that your input would be missed.
But I also remember some other wild what ifs from you about jumping off a bridge, punching a hole through the wall, etc.
No, I wouldn't come back unless Shad Khan either sold the team or stepped down and let Tony run things.
For me it's not about Travon Walker not being a good player. I believe he is. IMO, he is a Ziggy Ansah clone. They are almost identical in size and neither were really talked about until they put up incredible workout numbers at the Combine. Ansah had some really good seasons with the Lions, but he belonged in a 4-3 scheme and that is where he had his best years. Travon Walker either belongs in a 4-3 scheme as a DE or a 3-4 scheme as a DE. We desperately need a 3-4 OLB who can also be a 4-3 DE. Taking Walker #1 is a huge, unnecessary risk and every time this team takes risks we get burned. Why do it again? It makes no sense. Hutchinson is a safe pick with a high floor and has played 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE, just like we need. "Sauce" Gardner is probably the safest pick in the draft. I don't like Ekwonu at #1 overall, but if he fails as an OT, I believe he would make a very good NFL OG, so he's a much safer pick as well. Jameson Williams fills our biggest need and almost the entire fan base was wanting to draft him before the injury. He is way ahead of schedule on his rehab and he would be a much safer pick too. Why chose the one player that has so many areas where he could fail? It's just not smart business.
Today on the NFL Network they had a round table discussing the Jaguars possibly drafting Walker #1 overall. They were all laughing at us and bringing up how we have picked in the top ten 14 out of the last 15 years. I guess that never occurred to me before. How could we fail that many times? They told how the team either failed at drafting or couldn't hold onto the few players they actually hit on. I'm just completely worn down by this team's bad decision making. We need to stop looking for homeruns and start rebuilding this team by looking for singles, doubles and triples. We've struck out on our drafting way too much. Just look what we did when we traded Jalen Ramsey. We basically got nothing in return, because we did such a poor job drafting.
I know I've threatened to jump off a bridge in jest, (I assumed this was implied. I'm not really suicidal.) I've also said I'd punch a hole in the wall, which unfortunately I have done in the past and will probably never do again, because it was not fun patching the hole. I am serious about leaving this team though. The older I get, the more health issues I have and many of them are due to stress. I know I take football way too seriously. I can't help it though. Instead of enjoying football like most fans, this team just gets my blood pressure boiling with the complete incompetence from the front office and ownership. I keep thinking next season will be better, but it only seems to get worse. We finally get a franchise QB and we are doing nothing to help him other than signing Brandon Scherff and an average slot receiver who will probably be our #1 receiver, due to the pure lack of talent from the rest of the WR group. I've seen 90% of the posters on this message board draft way better than the actual team does year after year. That shouldn't happen, but it does, all the time. I love this team so much, but I'll have to take a step back if walker is selected. I'm getting to the point where I'm worried I might end up having a heart attack or a stroke.
Hopefully, all this Walker talk is just a smokescreen though and we end up selecting one of the "safe" players in this draft. All I can do is pray that we have learned our lesson and we're finally gonna do the right thing. I guess we'll all find out on Thursday.
Also cj henderson was a huge mistake. That was some jaguars bad luck. I still would have kept him and forced him to play. I guess we got arnold out of the trade which is good. I like his play if he can stay healthy, but I wonder who the jags could have picked instead of Henderson. I'm super disappointed in Henderson as I'm a huge gator fan and was hopeful about his talent.
I think (as of this minute, lol) The pick will be Hutchinson. Based on the quotes attributed to Khan in Peter King's column, about work ethic, culture, leadership, setting an example, etc., I think Khan favors Hutchinson. And since there is no consensus about the players at the top then I think the pick will be Hutchinson for that reason.
(04-26-2022, 01:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2022, 10:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]But what if the team is RIGHT to take Walker?
What if Walker turns out being the best player overall?
I don't think that's the case, but if we're wrong on that...then what?
What if with Walker, the Jaguars show improvement in defense and, ultimately, in the W-L column?
Do you return to the fold?
I echo the sentiments expressed earlier that your input would be missed.
But I also remember some other wild what ifs from you about jumping off a bridge, punching a hole through the wall, etc.
No, I wouldn't come back unless Shad Khan either sold the team or stepped down and let Tony run things.
For me it's not about Travon Walker not being a good player. I believe he is. IMO, he is a Ziggy Ansah clone. They are almost identical in size and neither were really talked about until they put up incredible workout numbers at the Combine. Ansah had some really good seasons with the Lions, but he belonged in a 4-3 scheme and that is where he had his best years. Travon Walker either belongs in a 4-3 scheme as a DE or a 3-4 scheme as a DE. We desperately need a 3-4 OLB who can also be a 4-3 DE. Taking Walker #1 is a huge, unnecessary risk and every time this team takes risks we get burned. Why do it again? It makes no sense. Hutchinson is a safe pick with a high floor and has played 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE, just like we need. "Sauce" Gardner is probably the safest pick in the draft. I don't like Ekwonu at #1 overall, but if he fails as an OT, I believe he would make a very good NFL OG, so he's a much safer pick as well. Jameson Williams fills our biggest need and almost the entire fan base was wanting to draft him before the injury. He is way ahead of schedule on his rehab and he would be a much safer pick too. Why chose the one player that has so many areas where he could fail? It's just not smart business.
Today on the NFL Network they had a round table discussing the Jaguars possibly drafting Walker #1 overall. They were all laughing at us and bringing up how we have picked in the top ten 14 out of the last 15 years. I guess that never occurred to me before. How could we fail that many times? They told how the team either failed at drafting or couldn't hold onto the few players they actually hit on. I'm just completely worn down by this team's bad decision making. We need to stop looking for homeruns and start rebuilding this team by looking for singles, doubles and triples. We've struck out on our drafting way too much. Just look what we did when we traded Jalen Ramsey. We basically got nothing in return, because we did such a poor job drafting.
I know I've threatened to jump off a bridge in jest, (I assumed this was implied. I'm not really suicidal.) I've also said I'd punch a hole in the wall, which unfortunately I have done in the past and will probably never do again, because it was not fun patching the hole. I am serious about leaving this team though. The older I get, the more health issues I have and many of them are due to stress. I know I take football way too seriously. I can't help it though. Instead of enjoying football like most fans, this team just gets my blood pressure boiling with the complete incompetence from the front office and ownership. I keep thinking next season will be better, but it only seems to get worse. We finally get a franchise QB and we are doing nothing to help him other than signing Brandon Scherff and an average slot receiver who will probably be our #1 receiver, due to the pure lack of talent from the rest of the WR group. I've seen 90% of the posters on this message board draft way better than the actual team does year after year. That shouldn't happen, but it does, all the time. I love this team so much, but I'll have to take a step back if walker is selected. I'm getting to the point where I'm worried I might end up having a heart attack or a stroke.
Hopefully, all this Walker talk is just a smokescreen though and we end up selecting one of the "safe" players in this draft. All I can do is pray that we have learned our lesson and we're finally gonna do the right thing. I guess we'll all find out on Thursday.
Well, FWIW, Shad Khan reportedly supports drafting Hutchinson #1 overall.
As for Walker, if you truly compare him favorably to Ziggy Ansah, then it doesn't make much sense to dump the team for getting an Ansah. You say his best fit is as a 4-3 DE. I agree with that. It doesn't mean, however, that he can't function well within a 3-4, especially as an edge rusher. If he can run a 4.51 40 at that weight, what could he do 5-10 lbs lighter? He'd have the length to do well as a pass rusher, and his pure power would make him virtually unblockable by anyone other than a T. But if you saw him as purely a 3-4 DE, it doesn't mean he couldn't contribute to the pass rush. Bruce Smith, Neil Smith, Justin Smith and JJ Watt all managed to do that. As a 3-4 DE, I would be happy if he became Justin Smith v. 2.0. My problem with the selection is because of the way he seemed to be utilized at Georgia, he never developed many pass rush moves (Top Billin' has a video breakdown of him that is instructive on how he was utilized), and it would take the Jaguars coaches to develop him. Based on this team's history, we haven't done a good job developing players at all. This current coaching staff hasn't been here long enough to establish a track record for developing players. My thing is even assuming they can develop him, how long will it take him to be a serious pass rushing threat? That said, we don't know how the coaches will utilize him just yet, assuming he would be the pick. Maybe if they freed him up to be primarily an edge pass rusher, maybe they can develop the moves in him to be productive.
As for the team's draft history/inability to retain the few good players we've drafted...ugh! I have dedicated for more thought and board posts to those subjects than I care to.
FTR, I never thought you to be suicidal...just hilariously prone to hyperbole and exaggeration. Health? Believe me, I know where you are coming from health wise. You and I are roughly the same age. My body's check engine light came on a few years back, and it has negatively impacted my life, and it has negatively impacted my posting quality. By all means, take care of yourself and your health. I'm just fearful this team is on the cusp of a major turnaround, and the thought of jumping ship now and missing out on it would sicken me to no end.