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(04-27-2022, 08:57 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2022, 08:45 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't matter how bad Baalke screws up, Khan will never fire him. Screwing up this draft, likely means we screw up Trevor Lawrence as well and who knows how long it would take to find another franchise QB? It took us 25 years to be in a position to get Trevor.
So, picking the lesser of two pass rushers (in your opinion) is going to ruin Trevor? If we're worried only about Trevor, we better get him a weapon or a bodyguard at #1. While I agree that the production and obvious fit is Hutch, Walker's talent and potential are also great. If Pederson signs off on it, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and let it play out. We'll see how he progresses throughout the season. And even engage in the feel good hype of rooting for him.
They literally cannot pick a bad player. Maybe a lesser one. Or more likely simply a different one.
Yes, we cannot waste high draft picks, over and over and over like we do. We already gave away Jalen Ramsey for basically nothing in return, because we squandered those draft picks. Let's go back to 2010 and work forward with our first round picks. Tyson Alualu (Meh), Blaine Gabbert (Bust), Justin Blackmon (Bust), Luke Joeckel (Bust), Blake Bortles (Bust), Dante Fowler (Meh), Jalen Ramsey (Traded and squandered the draft picks we got for him), Leonard Fournette (Bust), Taven Bryan (Bust), Josh Allen (Not what we thought he'd be so far), C.J. Henderson (Bust), K'Lavon Chaisson (Huge Bust), Trevor Lawrence (????), Travis Etienne (Coming off Lisfranc surgery before the season.) This team has a history of drafting bust. We have the #1 pick and several "safe" players to pick from with high floors. For us to take the one real risk with a huge bust factor and little to no pass rush skills, would be wasting yet another opportunity to get this team on track.
How much losing do you think a QB like Lawrence can endure, before his psyche is destroyed? I've seen it happen to good QB's with other teams before. They are drafted by bad teams and constantly surrounded by bad players. The losing is never ending and that once promising QB goes into a rut and never gets out.
Yes, this team can pick a bad player. Just look at our other first round picks since 2010. Picking bad players is what we have done, over and over. It's why we have picked #1 for the past 2 years.
(04-27-2022, 09:17 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2022, 08:57 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]So, picking the lesser of two pass rushers (in your opinion) is going to ruin Trevor? If we're worried only about Trevor, we better get him a weapon or a bodyguard at #1. While I agree that the production and obvious fit is Hutch, Walker's talent and potential are also great. If Pederson signs off on it, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and let it play out. We'll see how he progresses throughout the season. And even engage in the feel good hype of rooting for him.
They literally cannot pick a bad player. Maybe a lesser one. Or more likely simply a different one.
Yes, we cannot waste high draft picks, over and over and over like we do. We already gave away Jalen Ramsey for basically nothing in return, because we squandered those draft picks. Let's go back to 2010 and work forward with our first round picks. Tyson Alualu (Meh), Blaine Gabbert (Bust), Justin Blackmon (Bust), Luke Joeckel (Bust), Blake Bortles (Bust), Dante Fowler (Meh), Jalen Ramsey (Traded and squandered the draft picks we got for him), Leonard Fournette (Bust), Taven Bryan (Bust), Josh Allen (Not what we thought he'd be so far), C.J. Henderson (Bust), K'Lavon Chaisson (Huge Bust), Trevor Lawrence (????), Travis Etienne (Coming off Lisfranc surgery before the season.) This team has a history of drafting bust. We have the #1 pick and several "safe" players to pick from with high floors. For us to take the one real risk with a huge bust factor and little to no pass rush skills, would be wasting yet another opportunity to get this team on track.
How much losing do you think a QB like Lawrence can endure, before his psyche is destroyed? I've seen it happen to good QB's with other teams before. They are drafted by bad teams and constantly surrounded by bad players. The losing is never ending and that once promising QB goes into a rut and never gets out.
Yes, this team can pick a bad player. Just look at our other first round picks since 2010. Picking bad players is what we have done, over and over. It's why we have picked #1 for the past 2 years.
Look, I'm not trying to argue with you or get you cranked up. I'm trying to get you to take a step back and look with less biased eyes. The only two picks that Trent Baalke is responsible for are Trevor and Etienne, and even in those two he did not have final say. The rest of those dudes were picked by someone else. (I am not disappointed in Josh Allen. We've seen what he could be when he had help and it wasn't the season from the Twilight Zone.)
None of the 4 potential picks that have been talked about is going to be a bad football player. Every single one will be a solid contributor. They may all turn out to be stars. Even if we pick the one guy who is solid and the other three are stars, we still got a good player. That's the crap shoot that is the draft. So cuss and fuss if he doesn't pick your guy. But also keep in mind that he is not picking a bad player, either. Whichever player it is will make this team better than it is today.
The night before the draft. These guys sat down early on and made a plan. They presented it to Kahn who liked it enough to not hire a EVP. You all remember his comments. This plan is detailed with milestones, decision points covering free agency, re-signings the draft etc. That is why when asked about some things the answer is "we haven't had that conversation yet". Be certain there is a time already set to have that conversation. They are working the plan. We are not privy to the plan. This is how it is suppose to be. This is how an organization should work. We just are not used to being organized here in Jacksonville. The talking heads and sports guys hate this, they are entitled to get leaks and report things. Unfortunately we all just have to trust the process they have set up and wait and see. The only scorecard will be the season next year. Anyone need an airsick bag to breathe in yet?
If Walker is the pick, this is Baalkes attempt to save his image. If Walker hits, and he is a home run… Baalke will get another job somewhere based off of it. Hutch would just be “well everyone would have took him #1”, and not have the same appeal. If Walker busts, regardless Baalke isn’t getting a job anywhere. I think this has everything to do with Baalke trying to show he is smarter than every other GM and an image changer.
Everything has the feel for that right now. Just a desperation move by Baalke.
(04-27-2022, 09:35 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2022, 09:17 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, we cannot waste high draft picks, over and over and over like we do. We already gave away Jalen Ramsey for basically nothing in return, because we squandered those draft picks. Let's go back to 2010 and work forward with our first round picks. Tyson Alualu (Meh), Blaine Gabbert (Bust), Justin Blackmon (Bust), Luke Joeckel (Bust), Blake Bortles (Bust), Dante Fowler (Meh), Jalen Ramsey (Traded and squandered the draft picks we got for him), Leonard Fournette (Bust), Taven Bryan (Bust), Josh Allen (Not what we thought he'd be so far), C.J. Henderson (Bust), K'Lavon Chaisson (Huge Bust), Trevor Lawrence (????), Travis Etienne (Coming off Lisfranc surgery before the season.) This team has a history of drafting bust. We have the #1 pick and several "safe" players to pick from with high floors. For us to take the one real risk with a huge bust factor and little to no pass rush skills, would be wasting yet another opportunity to get this team on track.
How much losing do you think a QB like Lawrence can endure, before his psyche is destroyed? I've seen it happen to good QB's with other teams before. They are drafted by bad teams and constantly surrounded by bad players. The losing is never ending and that once promising QB goes into a rut and never gets out.
Yes, this team can pick a bad player. Just look at our other first round picks since 2010. Picking bad players is what we have done, over and over. It's why we have picked #1 for the past 2 years.
Look, I'm not trying to argue with you or get you cranked up. I'm trying to get you to take a step back and look with less biased eyes. The only two picks that Trent Baalke is responsible for are Trevor and Etienne, and even in those two he did not have final say. The rest of those dudes were picked by someone else. (I am not disappointed in Josh Allen. We've seen what he could be when he had help and it wasn't the season from the Twilight Zone.)
None of the 4 potential picks that have been talked about is going to be a bad football player. Every single one will be a solid contributor. They may all turn out to be stars. Even if we pick the one guy who is solid and the other three are stars, we still got a good player. That's the crap shoot that is the draft. So cuss and fuss if he doesn't pick your guy. But also keep in mind that he is not picking a bad player, either. Whichever player it is will make this team better than it is today.
Exactly, but there is a pattern of the owner sticking with the same types of GM's who keep making mistakes over and over. Other teams don't seem to have this problem. Why is it happening to us on such an epic level?
I disagree vehemently. I think trying to turn Walker into a 3-4 OLB could end up being an unmitigated disaster on the level of what K'Lavon Chaisson has ended up being. I really like Ickey as an OG prospect, but as a LT I think he could be a huge disappointment, because of his lack of pass protection skills and Evan Neal is on the same level as Cam Robinson, as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe for a minute, that all 4 of those guys will be solid contributors and the odds are pretty much against it as well. I think your really looking at this through "rose colored glasses" and you're not seeing the reality of the situation.
I've seen several people on the board who opposed this pick a week ago, now trying to convince themselves it's not so bad. That's not the type of person I am. I see reality for what it is and I'm not gonna fool myself into thinking we're not about to make a colossal mistake, when I know we are.
The sad thing is, we're probably gonna get screwed over simply because of our GM's hatred for Aiden Hutchinson's coach. Everybody knows it. It's no secret they hate one another, but for him to let that spill over into his decision making would be completely inexcusable and if Khan lets this happen, he will be proving all the fans right who made him look like a clown.
(04-27-2022, 08:41 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2022, 08:36 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Why can't he play OLB? He's obviously not built like your average one, but he is 100% athletic enough to do it and we have seen him do some crazy stuff in pass coverage and trailing as a run defender.
It's a whole different position with many different nuances, he has never seen or done. Remember when we tried to turn QB Matt Jones into a WR? That didn't work out so well. You don't draft guys #1 overall to teach them a completely new position. That's asinine. As far as being athletic, so was Mike Mamula. He blew everyone away at the Combine and was drafted way earlier than he should have been. That didn't work out either. If we do take Walker over Hutchinson, it's 100% due to one thing, Baalke's hatred of Harbaugh.
You're comparing switching between OLB and DE to switching from QB to WR? That's pretty silly.
(04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Uche states he would take Walker over Hutch...
But also, he had my boy Cross as the top tackle in the draft!
(04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Uche states he would take Walker over Hutch...
https://twitter.com/Chukwu77/status/1519...Vd3Xs7v5ZA
Many of these guys have close ties to the team and ownership. They aren't gonna say anything to go against the team. They are homers. Many of these guys are the same people who were singing the praises of Hutchinson several weeks ago. Neither Hutchinson or Walker has changed as players in the last several weeks, but many of the Jacksonville media are now on the "Walker Train," because that's where the team looks like they are leaning. If the team was leaning toward Hutchinson, I guarantee they would be on the "Hutchinson Train."
(04-27-2022, 10:16 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]If Walker is the pick, this is Baalkes attempt to save his image. If Walker hits, and he is a home run… Baalke will get another job somewhere based off of it. Hutch would just be “well everyone would have took him #1”, and not have the same appeal. If Walker busts, regardless Baalke isn’t getting a job anywhere. I think this has everything to do with Baalke trying to show he is smarter than every other GM and an image changer.
Everything has the feel for that right now. Just a desperation move by Baalke.
This has everything to do with Baalke's hatred of Harbaugh. It looks like he might refuse to take one of Harbaugh's guys, based on his dislike. That's a shame.
(04-27-2022, 10:27 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2022, 08:41 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It's a whole different position with many different nuances, he has never seen or done. Remember when we tried to turn QB Matt Jones into a WR? That didn't work out so well. You don't draft guys #1 overall to teach them a completely new position. That's asinine. As far as being athletic, so was Mike Mamula. He blew everyone away at the Combine and was drafted way earlier than he should have been. That didn't work out either. If we do take Walker over Hutchinson, it's 100% due to one thing, Baalke's hatred of Harbaugh.
You're comparing switching between OLB and DE to switching from QB to WR? That's pretty silly.
(04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Uche states he would take Walker over Hutch...
But also, he had my boy Cross as the top tackle in the draft!
Different positions are different positions.
There’s no way Baalke fslll this up. Hutch or Sauce
I have been waiting for this draft all year and we are going to ruin it by taking Walker.
I see the false narratives are running rampant again. Did the gossip about our GM potentially not selecting a certain player because he dislikes said player's collegiate coach arise from a lull in the action during the Ladies Auxillary bingo and peach cobbler Wednesday night outing? It's that goofy of a premonition.
Pls pls hutch
Dont [BLEEP] this uo
I'd take Sauce and be happy with the best player in the draft. I have a feeling it will be Sauce, just a hunch.
(04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Uche states he would take Walker over Hutch...
https://twitter.com/Chukwu77/status/1519...Vd3Xs7v5ZA
How does he say walker over hutch and his draft board not only has hutch going before him but tibs as well… he is the 3rd edge coming off his board. What’s crock of [BLEEP]
By this time tomorrow night, we will know !
(04-28-2022, 12:33 AM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Uche states he would take Walker over Hutch...
https://twitter.com/Chukwu77/status/1519...Vd3Xs7v5ZA
How does he say walker over hutch and his draft board not only has hutch going before him but tibs as well… he is the 3rd edge coming off his board. What’s crock of [BLEEP]
Hutch is clear why he would go to Lions if available(hometown) but...
Maybe he thinks our FO are a bunch of morons? Actually I think he also believe we will take Walker so he's just making sure he was right...
If Walker is the pick I'll say this: Watching the little film they have of Hutch and him, something stands out. Hutch isn't big or very strong. I saw him collide with a QB and both went down. Hutch looks thin.
I saw Walker, and that's a big, strong guy. He was moving OL with sheer size. Just waving his arms. He's a risk, but all the Jags seem to want him. And I assume they know football.
(04-28-2022, 01:05 AM)Mandeezee Wrote: [ -> ]If Walker is the pick I'll say this: Watching the little film they have of Hutch and him, something stands out. Hutch isn't big or very strong. I saw him collide with a QB and both went down. Hutch looks thin.
I saw Walker, and that's a big, strong guy. He was moving OL with sheer size. Just waving his arms. He's a risk, but all the Jags seem to want him. And I assume they know football.
How could you possibly think that when looking at our draft history?
I just watched Todd McShay and Mel Kiper's 3 round mock special. McShay gave us Aiden Hutchinson #1 overall. He says he's not buying all the Travon Walker talk, because it just doesn't make sense. He said Hutchinson is the clear cut choice at #1. Mel Kiper said Walker was the hardest guy in the draft to evaluate, because the workout numbers don't match up with the lack of production on the field and Louis Riddick (you know, the guy we interviewed to be our GM in 2020, before Baalke was promoted to that spot) said there is no way Travon Walker should be taken #1. He said he needs so many things coached into him in order to succeed that it would be foolish to take him that high. He said he would probably even take Thibodeaux or one of the other pass rushers ahead of Walker as well. He said Hutchinson should be the pick.
(04-28-2022, 12:33 AM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2022, 09:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Uche states he would take Walker over Hutch...
https://twitter.com/Chukwu77/status/1519...Vd3Xs7v5ZA
How does he say walker over hutch and his draft board not only has hutch going before him but tibs as well… he is the 3rd edge coming off his board. What’s crock of [BLEEP]
He hears the team is leaning Walker, so he's just being a homer, even though his own mock draft contradicts what he says.
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