I agree with those who say we should not make up our minds about Trevor yet.
But that last game, vs Houston, flattened me. It made me think about how many QBs we've gone through, and said, "you can't evaluate him yet, he'll figure it out," and then after a year or two, he's a failure. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I know it's the first season in a new offense, but last week, he was inaccurate, and he made some bad decisions. Two really good games, but then, two really bad games.
So I don't know what to think at this point. All my optimism is gone. I can't answer the question in the thread title.
(10-16-2022, 06:39 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with those who say we should not make up our minds about Trevor yet.
But that last game, vs Houston, flattened me. It made me think about how many QBs we've gone through, and said, "you can't evaluate him yet, he'll figure it out," and then after a year or two, he's a failure. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I know it's the first season in a new offense, but last week, he was inaccurate, and he made some bad decisions. Two really good games, but then, two really bad games.
So I don't know what to think at this point. All my optimism is gone. I can't answer the question in the thread title.
This is where many fair minded fans are at mentally at the moment with him. It's beyond reasonable. I see it as growing pains for a 2nd year QB in a new system with new additions around him. This year we'll probably continue to see this pattern, two weeks good, two weeks awful, two weeks good, three weeks awful, one week good, one week awful, etc.
By next year, with another year under his belt, some chemistry developed over a 17 game stretch with guys like Zay Jones and Christian Kirk, maybe Engram, if they can convince him to come back in the off season. We'll hopefully see three weeks good, one week bad, two weeks good, one week close, one week bad, five weeks good and looking good in a play-off run.
He gets this year and next year for me. That's it. Also, again, love it or hate it, I think this team needs to be looking at a decent QB prospect in next year's draft that can come in and sit down for a year behind Lawrence and learn this offense as an insurance policy. Whether it's to be a back-up with trade value down the road, or, to ultimately and sadly replace Trevor if needed.
Hendon Hooker continues to impress. Last night probably sky rocketed his value and now he'll probably be in the running with guys like Young & Stroud for QB1 honors in next year's class but I would like to see this team take a shot on Jurkovec, Levis, Richardson or McKee if the value feels right in say maybe RD4 or RD5. If those guys are still even there going into day three. All of those guys have specific traits that translate really well into the NFL.
(10-15-2022, 07:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2022, 07:50 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]Hendon Hooker would look great in Teal!
Has good deep ball ability. Wouldn't hurt. 
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Probably won't be there at 32 though.
(10-16-2022, 08:00 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2022, 06:39 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with those who say we should not make up our minds about Trevor yet.
But that last game, vs Houston, flattened me. It made me think about how many QBs we've gone through, and said, "you can't evaluate him yet, he'll figure it out," and then after a year or two, he's a failure. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I know it's the first season in a new offense, but last week, he was inaccurate, and he made some bad decisions. Two really good games, but then, two really bad games.
So I don't know what to think at this point. All my optimism is gone. I can't answer the question in the thread title.
This is where many fair minded fans are at mentally at the moment with him. It's beyond reasonable. I see it as growing pains for a 2nd year QB in a new system with new additions around him. This year we'll probably continue to see this pattern, two weeks good, two weeks awful, two weeks good, three weeks awful, one week good, one week awful, etc.
By next year, with another year under his belt, some chemistry developed over a 17 game stretch with guys like Zay Jones and Christian Kirk, maybe Engram, if they can convince him to come back in the off season. We'll hopefully see three weeks good, one week bad, two weeks good, one week close, one week bad, five weeks good and looking good in a play-off run.
He gets this year and next year for me. That's it. Also, again, love it or hate it, I think this team needs to be looking at a decent QB prospect in next year's draft that can come in and sit down for a year behind Lawrence and learn this offense as an insurance policy. Whether it's to be a back-up with trade value down the road, or, to ultimately and sadly replace Trevor if needed.
Hendon Hooker continues to impress. Last night probably sky rocketed his value and now he'll probably be in the running with guys like Young & Stroud for QB1 honors in next year's class but I would like to see this team take a shot on Jurkovec, Levis, Richardson or McKee if the value feels right in say maybe RD4 or RD5. If those guys are still even there going into day three. All of those guys have specific traits that translate really well into the NFL.
Round 5 or later. That’s fine.
Rounds 1-4 should be about this offense and offense alone.
I know people are happy with the defense (and it’s pretty awesome) but this is exactly why I wanted Pickens in round 2. This team is lacking a true outside receiver and Pickens has shown he can do that. I wanted to put a lot of draft picks into the offensive side of the ball including OLine (after pick 1) and WRs.
I’m not trying to start a “BAP VS need” draft talk so don’t come in starting that but it’s clear they need another outside receiver. Maybe they trade for Robbie Anderson.
(10-16-2022, 08:08 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-15-2022, 07:52 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Has good deep ball ability. Wouldn't hurt.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Probably won't be there at 32 though.
No. He's fixing to be rising up high on most draft boards at this rate. Especially if he leads them to a Championship. He's looked really good this year though and has picked up and improved from where he left off last year.
Probably ends up in our division though. The clots are overdue for landing a QB prospect again. This round robin of veterans has not panned out over the past few years between Rivers, Wentz and Ryan. Question is whether or not Irsay blows everything up in the off season and cuts Ballard and Reich loose.
(10-16-2022, 08:13 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2022, 08:00 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is where many fair minded fans are at mentally at the moment with him. It's beyond reasonable. I see it as growing pains for a 2nd year QB in a new system with new additions around him. This year we'll probably continue to see this pattern, two weeks good, two weeks awful, two weeks good, three weeks awful, one week good, one week awful, etc.
By next year, with another year under his belt, some chemistry developed over a 17 game stretch with guys like Zay Jones and Christian Kirk, maybe Engram, if they can convince him to come back in the off season. We'll hopefully see three weeks good, one week bad, two weeks good, one week close, one week bad, five weeks good and looking good in a play-off run.
He gets this year and next year for me. That's it. Also, again, love it or hate it, I think this team needs to be looking at a decent QB prospect in next year's draft that can come in and sit down for a year behind Lawrence and learn this offense as an insurance policy. Whether it's to be a back-up with trade value down the road, or, to ultimately and sadly replace Trevor if needed.
Hendon Hooker continues to impress. Last night probably sky rocketed his value and now he'll probably be in the running with guys like Young & Stroud for QB1 honors in next year's class but I would like to see this team take a shot on Jurkovec, Levis, Richardson or McKee if the value feels right in say maybe RD4 or RD5. If those guys are still even there going into day three. All of those guys have specific traits that translate really well into the NFL.
Round 5 or later. That’s fine.
Rounds 1-4 should be about this offense and offense alone.
I know people are happy with the defense (and it’s pretty awesome) but this is exactly why I wanted Pickens in round 2. This team is lacking a true outside receiver and Pickens has shown he can do that. I wanted to put a lot of draft picks into the offensive side of the ball including OLine (after pick 1) and WRs.
I’m not trying to start a “BAP VS need” draft talk so don’t come in starting that but it’s clear they need another outside receiver. Maybe they trade for Robbie Anderson.
110% agreed. I think they'll go that route. You have to. I have a few guys I like listed over in the college forum already. I know everybody is high on Josh Downs & Marvin Mims at the moment, simply due to speed. However, I think Lawrence REALLY needs a tall go-to option here. Higgins and Ross are 6'4 and he seemed to play well with those kinds of guys. Pickens would have been ideal.
I think they need to be looking at guys like Quentin Johnston and Dontay Demus Jr. early for those reasons stated above. I really like Tyler Harrell, Rashee Rice & Zay Flowers though later on in next year's draft.
(10-16-2022, 08:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2022, 08:13 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Round 5 or later. That’s fine.
Rounds 1-4 should be about this offense and offense alone.
I know people are happy with the defense (and it’s pretty awesome) but this is exactly why I wanted Pickens in round 2. This team is lacking a true outside receiver and Pickens has shown he can do that. I wanted to put a lot of draft picks into the offensive side of the ball including OLine (after pick 1) and WRs.
I’m not trying to start a “BAP VS need” draft talk so don’t come in starting that but it’s clear they need another outside receiver. Maybe they trade for Robbie Anderson.
110% agreed. I think they'll go that route. You have to. I have a few guys I like listed over in the college forum already. I know everybody is high on Josh Downs & Marvin Mims at the moment, simply due to speed. However, I think Lawrence REALLY needs a tall go-to option here. Higgins and Ross are 6'4 and he seemed to play well with those kinds of guys. Pickens would have been ideal.
I think they need to be looking at guys like Quentin Johnston and Dontay Demus Jr. early for those reasons stated above. I really like Tyler Harrell, Rashee Rice & Zay Flowers though later on in next year's draft.
Demus is amazing. I’ve watched every snap of his (I live in Maryland and went there). Before he tore his ACL last season, he was on a roll. 500 yards in 5 games including 3 over 100 and 3 TDS. He is EXACTLY what this team needs. He is still working his way back from that ACL but he’s legit.
(10-16-2022, 08:25 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2022, 08:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]110% agreed. I think they'll go that route. You have to. I have a few guys I like listed over in the college forum already. I know everybody is high on Josh Downs & Marvin Mims at the moment, simply due to speed. However, I think Lawrence REALLY needs a tall go-to option here. Higgins and Ross are 6'4 and he seemed to play well with those kinds of guys. Pickens would have been ideal.
I think they need to be looking at guys like Quentin Johnston and Dontay Demus Jr. early for those reasons stated above. I really like Tyler Harrell, Rashee Rice & Zay Flowers though later on in next year's draft.
Demus is amazing. I’ve watched every snap of his (I live in Maryland and went there). Before he tore his ACL last season, he was on a roll. 500 yards in 5 games including 3 over 100 and 3 TDS. He is EXACTLY what this team needs. He is still working his way back from that ACL but he’s legit.
Yeah. His highlights are fun to watch. Has really good long speed and seems to separate really well. The other thing I like about him is his YAC ability and the fact that he's flashed outside and inside as a receiver. He also attacks the ball with his hands when making catches. It's rare I have seen anything just "hit" him in his shoulders. Seems technically sound already in that regard. Reminds me a little of A.J Green. Which is awesome. Big Bulldogs fan.
(10-13-2022, 09:18 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2022, 11:25 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]And everybody is better/faster in the NFL than in college.
Like I said, he can run, but he was never touted as a running QB. That's not his game.
Mahomes had 308 rushes for 845 yards and 22 TD over 3 years in College, do you considering him to be a running QB? While yes he can run and does, that's not his main game.
I'd agree that I'd like to see Lawrence use his legs a little more at times, but I also don't want him to take a bunch of extra hits in doing so. He might be 6'6, but he isn't 250 pounds like Josh Allen is.
Guys like Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson etc are running QBs.
(10-13-2022, 08:29 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The Jags aren't scheduling games against Bees Tech, Syrupcubes, or Directional State Annex School of Mines.
Would be nice if we could though.
That doesn't mean he can't do it. I don't think anybody is expecting him to break tackles like Josh Allen or make it a routine habit of running for 50, 60, 70 yards a game. Just play better and be looking for opportunities to make it happen. Aaron Rodgers did this. Andrew Luck did this. Mark Brunell did it here, etc.
However, you can go back and look at a handful of games this year, especially closer to the red zone (INT in the end zone this past Sunday for example) and see that he's had opportunities to pick-up easy yardage with his legs. Again, much like this highlight reel I posted last night. There's similar situations that come up where he can pull this off.
You could make the argument that he's probably left maybe 2, 3 rushing TD's off his stat sheet this year where he could have tucked it and made a run for it. Am I expecting him to break off a 50 yard run like he did against Ohio St. in that Championship game? No.
If it's inside the red zone though and 15, 20 yards out? And the defense is not paying attention completely? And there's free real estate? He needs to take it.
Telling you. Doug's in here stealing ideas.
Trevor Lawrence in 2022 is on pace for a season that would end with:
3920 yards passing
290 yards rushing
21 passing TDs
6 rushing TDs
11 INTs
64.3% comp rate
Here is where he would rank in each of those categories compared to 2021 passing leaders rankings
12th
10th
16th
3rd
17th
22nd
The kid is clearly trending in the right direction.
As he grows in this offense these numbers and corresponding rankings will improve.
Finding some consistency from week to week is his next big hurdle and he seems primed to clear it.
He's come out of a recent dip in performance with a come from behind victory that showed some real grit.
Very excited to see how he handles the stretch after the bye-week and closes out the season.
Yes, he's moving in the right direction and there are encouraging signs. By now I think it's clear that Trevor can be a starter but there are still some things to discuss.
I have questions about whether Houston/Denver or Chargers/Raiders are examples of the real Trevor. I think everyone want the latter to be true but I need more consistency. In particular I don't want him to repeat boneheaded mistakes. My concerns are about how fast and how high he can improve? And yes, I am impatient.
Considering he's had several bad games I'd like to see more yards passing and more touchdowns without sacrifising anything else.
I set my own benchmark at Justin Herbert rookie season so say 4,300 yards passing with 30 TDs would be great. I don't think he'll reach the number of TD's but if he can reach 4,300 yards with a few mor than 21 TD's I'm largely satisfied with his season if the other stats stay the same.
Seeing a clearly better second half of the season is what I want to see. If he continues to play better then I will feel much more confident for the future. Just doubling his stats would keep lingering doubts in my mind.
Can't say whether or not he will be the guy we want or not, but it's too early too flat out give up on him. Need to see more games like we did last Sunday tho as opposed to the eagles/Texans/Commanders games for sure.
I don't know how good Trevor will be; my opinion changes after every game. But I don't think we'll need another QB. He'll be good enough.
(11-10-2022, 12:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor Lawrence in 2022 is on pace for a season that would end with:
3920 yards passing
290 yards rushing
21 passing TDs
6 rushing TDs
11 INTs
64.3% comp rate
Here is where he would rank in each of those categories compared to 2021 passing leaders rankings
12th
10th
16th
3rd
17th
22nd
The kid is clearly trending in the right direction.
As he grows in this offense these numbers and corresponding rankings will improve.
Finding some consistency from week to week is his next big hurdle and he seems primed to clear it.
He's come out of a recent dip in performance with a come from behind victory that showed some real grit.
Very excited to see how he handles the stretch after the bye-week and closes out the season.
@if he can't break 4k he must be trash@
(11-10-2022, 12:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor Lawrence in 2022 is on pace for a season that would end with:
3920 yards passing
290 yards rushing
21 passing TDs
6 rushing TDs
11 INTs
64.3% comp rate
Here is where he would rank in each of those categories compared to 2021 passing leaders rankings
12th
10th
16th
3rd
17th
22nd
The kid is clearly trending in the right direction.
As he grows in this offense these numbers and corresponding rankings will improve.
Finding some consistency from week to week is his next big hurdle and he seems primed to clear it.
He's come out of a recent dip in performance with a come from behind victory that showed some real grit.
Very excited to see how he handles the stretch after the bye-week and closes out the season.
I agree he's been much better this year than last year. A lot of his issue is just situational, and a bit of inaccuracy. Obviously 21 td 10 int isn't a good season by any means but compared to last year it's obviously showing that he can improve.
I think next year with Ridley and a few other additions we will either see that we have a guy, or we wont. But we should know next season for sure. Looking fairly possitive atm tho.
(11-10-2022, 12:41 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know how good Trevor will be; my opinion changes after every game. But I don't think we'll need another QB. He'll be good enough.
As long as they keep trying to build around him they'll be fine. Have to go all in on offense in the off season here in about four to five months. I think he'll be better than just good enough though.
(11-10-2022, 01:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (11-10-2022, 12:41 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know how good Trevor will be; my opinion changes after every game. But I don't think we'll need another QB. He'll be good enough.
As long as they keep trying to build around him they'll be fine. Have to go all in on offense in the off season here in about four to five months. I think he'll be better than just good enough though.
He'll be at least good enough. Maybe great. But I think "good enough" is the floor.
(11-10-2022, 05:39 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor earns top "Next Gen Stats" passing award for week 9. Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in stats like this, but it's nice that they think Trevor did well.
https://www.jaguars.com/video/trevor-law...for-week-9
He had similar performances this year. The road win in L.A and the home opener against the clots as well. I think we'll see more of that as he continues to develop and learn this system with Pederson and they become more comfortable and familiar with what they both see philosophically.
Ideally, his game at the moment should be just like he did in those wins, including that road loss to the clots. He needs to use his legs and be opportunistic about it. Especially in the red zone where he could have done that instead of forcing a pass that resulted in a turnover.
He's also a rhythm passer and the more he's on the move and outside of the pocket it seems like he oddly becomes more accurate. The biggest thing he needs to work on is climbing the pocket instead of drifting backwards when things begin to break down and he needs to get his mechanics shored up to his deep pass attempts more accurately and cleanly.
I think he's damn near there man. I really do. He has to chain a few more of these performances together but it would CERTAINLY help going into next year with bigger, faster and stronger receivers on the outside and a giant security blanket at the TE position.
Ridley with Kirk and Jones sounds great on paper. Especially if you sprinkle in a little Agnew when he's healthy and when they decide to actually LINE UP Etienne in the passing game. I think we're going to miss Marvin Jones next year though. Him and Lawrence click in critical situations. One of the current guys, probably Kirk, ends up being that guy next year for him. BUT, they still need to get him a giant option on the outside.
I hope they resign Engram as well. He's been clicking with Lawrence in just eight or nine games this year. Would be scary what they could with another off season together with big additions made offensively. I think these types of games should be his floor and then his max games are going to be those deep shots he makes more often, he's going to limit that critical mistake and flip it for a TD, he's going to use his legs more and escape and run for it when it's there, etc.
(11-10-2022, 05:48 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (11-10-2022, 05:39 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor earns top "Next Gen Stats" passing award for week 9. Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in stats like this, but it's nice that they think Trevor did well.
https://www.jaguars.com/video/trevor-law...for-week-9
He had similar performances this year. The road win in L.A and the home opener against the clots as well. I think we'll see more of that as he continues to develop and learn this system with Pederson and they become more comfortable and familiar with what they both see philosophically.
Ideally, his game at the moment should be just like he did in those wins, including that road loss to the clots. He needs to use his legs and be opportunistic about it. Especially in the red zone where he could have done that instead of forcing a pass that resulted in a turnover.
He's also a rhythm passer and the more he's on the move and outside of the pocket it seems like he oddly becomes more accurate. The biggest thing he needs to work on is climbing the pocket instead of drifting backwards when things begin to break down and he needs to get his mechanics shored up to his deep pass attempts more accurately and cleanly.
I think he's damn near there man. I really do. He has to chain a few more of these performances together but it would CERTAINLY help going into next year with bigger, faster and stronger receivers on the outside and a giant security blanket at the TE position.
Ridley with Kirk and Jones sounds great on paper. Especially if you sprinkle in a little Agnew when he's healthy and when they decide to actually LINE UP Etienne in the passing game. I think we're going to miss Marvin Jones next year though. Him and Lawrence click in critical situations. One of the current guys, probably Kirk, ends up being that guy next year for him. BUT, they still need to get him a giant option on the outside.
I hope they resign Engram as well. He's been clicking with Lawrence in just eight or nine games this year. Would be scary what they could with another off season together with big additions made offensively. I think these types of games should be his floor and then his max games are going to be those deep shots he makes more often, he's going to limit that critical mistake and flip it for a TD, he's going to use his legs more and escape and run for it when it's there, etc.
Some of his passes last week were really impressive. Like the one where he avoided a sack in the end zone and completed a pass to the sideline. Not many QBs can make that play.
It's weird. Some games he's extremely accurate, and some games he's extremely inaccurate.