Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-30-2022, 09:15 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]This team can't draft and you want more picks?

LOL

Might be the wisest statement in this entire thread.

"Blow it up and start from scratch again" is what all the good teams do, right? "Allen's best year was when he had help", but no concern for adding help.

I dunno if he's got it. I know nobody else on the D's got it. I think we do more damage scratching the whole thing and starting over than we do trying to build support around him to see if he can show up on the precious stat sheet.

(10-31-2022, 01:50 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-30-2022, 09:21 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Because at this rate Baalke is out in 2023 and somebody else can come in and fix this on the backend with Pederson.

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Why do you think Baalke will be fired at the end of the year?

(10-31-2022, 07:33 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 01:50 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you think Baalke will be fired at the end of the year?

Because it's all his fault the worst team in the League for the past 3 seasons isn't already the best after the first half of this season. If only Baalke could find that damn Easy Button all these armchair GMs would use he'd be worth keeping.

Common sense really. Look at the turmoil and falling out we saw last year with the clown show in the season finale. Alright? Factor in that all we heard through the rumor mill at the local level and national level, was, during the entire new head coaching search that most potential hires simply did not want Baalke involved nor factored into the equation. 

We interviewed Pederson first, went through a long, drawn out interview process with various candidates and it ultimately circled back to Pederson at the end with him being willing to work with Baalke. Even the local media, when Pederson was introduced by Khan and co. They went after them publicly with some of the questions. 

Alright? Now, let's look at the facts. Baalke has been the general manager two years in a row. Some of his selections are working out, some of them are not. In particular, there's a lot of depth missing on this football team. Alright? We ALL saw this back in the preseason and we all were concerned about it going into the regular season. Because once the starters came out of the line up there was a gigantic drop off in the level of play across the board between the second string and third string performers. 

If this team, nets it's 3rd straight number one overall pick? Somebody's head has to [BLEEP] roll. And it's not going to be Lawrence's head or Pederson's head that the Executioner's axe is seeking out. It'll be Baalke. Somebody has to answer for that. For better or worse. I don't think anybody is saying it's easy. I think most, rational fans, are looking at it as a clear failure to execute on every level. 

You have to look at those levels at a player by player standpoint and line them up with everybody else. All of this money spent on defense? Nothing to really show for it. All of that money thrown at some improvements on offense? We're still soul searching here for a legitimate receiving threat on the outside. I don't think Baalke gets another chance next year. They were already talking about the potential hiring of a VP of Football Operations. Spielman's name was thrown around last year. 

If it bleeds. It leads. The same exact heated topic that we had last year will be the same exact heated topic we'll have again next year in the off season.

---

(10-30-2022, 10:51 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-30-2022, 10:31 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]This trade makes little sense for the Jaguars.  They need Josh Allen as bad as any other team.  He clearly has upside.  I do think part of his lack of stats is the players around him not doing their part.  It's not like we have a replacement on the roster.   His salary this year is guaranteed, so we wouldn't get any cap savings.  We also have him locked up for next year with the fifth-year option for a fair price, so I don't understand the rush to get rid of him.  This team has enough holes that we don't need to create more.  As Bullseye used to say, we got to stop drafting on a treadmill.  

BTW, I wish Bullseye well.  His absence is concerning.  I know he previously mentioned health issues.

He’s not producing.

This. Upside, potential, blah, blah, [BLEEP], blah, blah. At the end of the day. It's not showing up on the field enough. Like the local guys have pointed out today on the calls on 92.5. Josh Allen loses containment on that final drive and allows Wilson to set it up on 1st and goal in the 4th quarter late. 2 tackles and 1 QB hit is not the same as 2 sacks and 1 FF. Any fan with common [BLEEP] sense would take the 2 sacks and 1 FF over the 2 tackles and 1 QB hit. 

He's not worth the money he's going to command next year and he's not going to produce anyways. And, much like the Myles Jack contract. He's going to fleece this front office, tie up your cap space when you're going to be hurting at two other critical positions of need, more than likely offensively, and when they're struggling again next year we'll continue to hear the same flock of sheep's stating "Well, he's almost there guys, he's almost there". 

IT'S YEAR [BLEEP] FIVE AT THAT POINT. FIVE!

Four straight games in a row. No sacks. No impact plays. Against three really, really beat up offensive lines in a row.

(10-31-2022, 10:43 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 01:50 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you think Baalke will be fired at the end of the year?

(10-31-2022, 07:33 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Because it's all his fault the worst team in the League for the past 3 seasons isn't already the best after the first half of this season. If only Baalke could find that damn Easy Button all these armchair GMs would use he'd be worth keeping.

Common sense really. Look at the turmoil and falling out we saw last year with the clown show in the season finale. Alright? Factor in that all we heard through the rumor mill at the local level and national level, was, during the entire new head coaching search that most potential hires simply did not want Baalke involved nor factored into the equation. 

We interviewed Pederson first, went through a long, drawn out interview process with various candidates and it ultimately circled back to Pederson at the end with him being willing to work with Baalke. Even the local media, when Pederson was introduced by Khan and co. They went after them publicly with some of the questions. 

Alright? Now, let's look at the facts. Baalke has been the general manager two years in a row. Some of his selections are working out, some of them are not. In particular, there's a lot of depth missing on this football team. Alright? We ALL saw this back in the preseason and we all were concerned about it going into the regular season. Because once the starters came out of the line up there was a gigantic drop off in the level of play across the board between the second string and third string performers. 

If this team, nets it's 3rd straight number one overall pick? Somebody's head has to [BLEEP] roll. And it's not going to be Lawrence's head or Pederson's head that the Executioner's axe is seeking out. It'll be Baalke. Somebody has to answer for that. For better or worse. I don't think anybody is saying it's easy. I think most, rational fans, are looking at it as a clear failure to execute on every level. 

You have to look at those levels at a player by player standpoint and line them up with everybody else. All of this money spent on defense? Nothing to really show for it. All of that money thrown at some improvements on offense? We're still soul searching here for a legitimate receiving threat on the outside. I don't think Baalke gets another chance next year. They were already talking about the potential hiring of a VP of Football Operations. Spielman's name was thrown around last year. 

If it bleeds. It leads. The same exact heated topic that we had last year will be the same exact heated topic we'll have again next year in the off season.

So I'd say a couple things. 

1. All the fans and national media wanted Baalke gone after last season. The fact the was not let go was because of Kahn. Given this franchise has had a revolving door of HC/GM/Head of Football guys over the past few years, I just don't see Kahn firing him after this season no matter what. 

2. No GM can fill every need every season. We all saw how horrible the 2020 team was. It was a legitimate miracle they won that first game and didn't go winless. The team was missing holes all over that roster, and that 2020 draft was a disaster and supposedly under Caldwell. Granted the 2021 FA class has been meh to bad. But the last 2 draft classes have been okay. Baalke has not hit every pick, but no GM hits every pick.

(10-31-2022, 11:35 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 10:43 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Common sense really. Look at the turmoil and falling out we saw last year with the clown show in the season finale. Alright? Factor in that all we heard through the rumor mill at the local level and national level, was, during the entire new head coaching search that most potential hires simply did not want Baalke involved nor factored into the equation. 

We interviewed Pederson first, went through a long, drawn out interview process with various candidates and it ultimately circled back to Pederson at the end with him being willing to work with Baalke. Even the local media, when Pederson was introduced by Khan and co. They went after them publicly with some of the questions. 

Alright? Now, let's look at the facts. Baalke has been the general manager two years in a row. Some of his selections are working out, some of them are not. In particular, there's a lot of depth missing on this football team. Alright? We ALL saw this back in the preseason and we all were concerned about it going into the regular season. Because once the starters came out of the line up there was a gigantic drop off in the level of play across the board between the second string and third string performers. 

If this team, nets it's 3rd straight number one overall pick? Somebody's head has to [BLEEP] roll. And it's not going to be Lawrence's head or Pederson's head that the Executioner's axe is seeking out. It'll be Baalke. Somebody has to answer for that. For better or worse. I don't think anybody is saying it's easy. I think most, rational fans, are looking at it as a clear failure to execute on every level. 

You have to look at those levels at a player by player standpoint and line them up with everybody else. All of this money spent on defense? Nothing to really show for it. All of that money thrown at some improvements on offense? We're still soul searching here for a legitimate receiving threat on the outside. I don't think Baalke gets another chance next year. They were already talking about the potential hiring of a VP of Football Operations. Spielman's name was thrown around last year. 

If it bleeds. It leads. The same exact heated topic that we had last year will be the same exact heated topic we'll have again next year in the off season.

So I'd say a couple things. 

1. All the fans and national media wanted Baalke gone after last season. The fact the was not let go was because of Kahn. Given this franchise has had a revolving door of HC/GM/Head of Football guys over the past few years, I just don't see Kahn firing him after this season no matter what. 

2. No GM can fill every need every season. We all saw how horrible the 2020 team was. It was a legitimate miracle they won that first game and didn't go winless. The team was missing holes all over that roster, and that 2020 draft was a disaster and supposedly under Caldwell. Granted the 2021 FA class has been meh to bad. But the last 2 draft classes have been okay. Baalke has not hit every pick, but no GM hits every pick.

If this team lands the first overall pick for the third year in a row? Baalke's head will roll like a Mayan head did during the age of sacrifice. He'll be zigging and zagging out of Jacksonville like he was in Apocalypto. This situation with Lawrence is vastly different than anything he's had here in Jacksonville. He (Khan) has to feel the hot seat with this. He'll cut him loose if this scenario unfolds. 

Baalke has not hit on every pick. Not every General Manager does. I agree. That's correct. HOWEVER, when you're seeing a lot of these 2nd day picks, these multiple picks that he has at his disposal in RD4, RD5, RD6, etc. 

What's he done with them? Nothing. He's really done nothing. And that's a part of the problem. You're supposed to be finding quality depth or role players there at that point. Or, at the minimum? You need to be trading up to find real, tangible value at areas of need or veteran players that are already proven. 

He's not doing enough. That's what I am getting at. He didn't do enough in San Francisco. He's not doing enough here now and again, the fact that everybody had an issue with him being retained and Khan stuck it out, hey, I get it. It's admirable. We put all of last year on Meyer, etc. That's fine and all. But, we'll see how the rest of this year plays out. 

If this team falls to 2 - 15? And nothing is shaken up in that front office? Oh boy.

(10-31-2022, 10:43 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 01:50 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you think Baalke will be fired at the end of the year?

(10-31-2022, 07:33 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Because it's all his fault the worst team in the League for the past 3 seasons isn't already the best after the first half of this season. If only Baalke could find that damn Easy Button all these armchair GMs would use he'd be worth keeping.

Common sense really. Look at the turmoil and falling out we saw last year with the clown show in the season finale. Alright? Factor in that all we heard through the rumor mill at the local level and national level, was, during the entire new head coaching search that most potential hires simply did not want Baalke involved nor factored into the equation. 

We interviewed Pederson first, went through a long, drawn out interview process with various candidates and it ultimately circled back to Pederson at the end with him being willing to work with Baalke. Even the local media, when Pederson was introduced by Khan and co. They went after them publicly with some of the questions. 

Alright? Now, let's look at the facts. Baalke has been the general manager two years in a row. Some of his selections are working out, some of them are not. In particular, there's a lot of depth missing on this football team. Alright? We ALL saw this back in the preseason and we all were concerned about it going into the regular season. Because once the starters came out of the line up there was a gigantic drop off in the level of play across the board between the second string and third string performers. 

If this team, nets it's 3rd straight number one overall pick? Somebody's head has to [BLEEP] roll. And it's not going to be Lawrence's head or Pederson's head that the Executioner's axe is seeking out. It'll be Baalke. Somebody has to answer for that. For better or worse. I don't think anybody is saying it's easy. I think most, rational fans, are looking at it as a clear failure to execute on every level. 

You have to look at those levels at a player by player standpoint and line them up with everybody else. All of this money spent on defense? Nothing to really show for it. All of that money thrown at some improvements on offense? We're still soul searching here for a legitimate receiving threat on the outside. I don't think Baalke gets another chance next year. They were already talking about the potential hiring of a VP of Football Operations. Spielman's name was thrown around last year. 

If it bleeds. It leads. The same exact heated topic that we had last year will be the same exact heated topic we'll have again next year in the off season.

---

(10-30-2022, 10:51 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]He’s not producing.

This. Upside, potential, blah, blah, [BLEEP], blah, blah. At the end of the day. It's not showing up on the field enough. Like the local guys have pointed out today on the calls on 92.5. Josh Allen loses containment on that final drive and allows Wilson to set it up on 1st and goal in the 4th quarter late. 2 tackles and 1 QB hit is not the same as 2 sacks and 1 FF. Any fan with common [BLEEP] sense would take the 2 sacks and 1 FF over the 2 tackles and 1 QB hit. 

He's not worth the money he's going to command next year and he's not going to produce anyways. And, much like the Myles Jack contract. He's going to fleece this front office, tie up your cap space when you're going to be hurting at two other critical positions of need, more than likely offensively, and when they're struggling again next year we'll continue to hear the same flock of sheep's stating "Well, he's almost there guys, he's almost there". 

IT'S YEAR [BLEEP] FIVE AT THAT POINT. FIVE!

Four straight games in a row. No sacks. No impact plays. Against three really, really beat up offensive lines in a row.

First, you keep talking about the large amount of money that he will command next year.  We know what he will make.  He will get the fifth year option at $11.5 million.  While not bargain basement, it's also not outrageous and not going to cripple this team financially.  It's well worth the risk.

Second, you can say "blah blah" to the potential factor all you want, but intelligent people definitely factor potential into the equation.  You obviously don't.  We're talking about a former pro-bowler here who is still at a prime age.  I don't believe he's magically gotten worse.  I think his stats have gotten worse because of surrounding talent.  If we upgrade the talent around him, his stats will go back to that level.  At a minimum, let's give it a try.  What if he goes to another team and lives up to his potential?  I'm guessing you will be one of the ones on here crying about "Why do we always let our good players go!?!?!?!?"

(10-31-2022, 01:03 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 10:43 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Common sense really. Look at the turmoil and falling out we saw last year with the clown show in the season finale. Alright? Factor in that all we heard through the rumor mill at the local level and national level, was, during the entire new head coaching search that most potential hires simply did not want Baalke involved nor factored into the equation. 

We interviewed Pederson first, went through a long, drawn out interview process with various candidates and it ultimately circled back to Pederson at the end with him being willing to work with Baalke. Even the local media, when Pederson was introduced by Khan and co. They went after them publicly with some of the questions. 

Alright? Now, let's look at the facts. Baalke has been the general manager two years in a row. Some of his selections are working out, some of them are not. In particular, there's a lot of depth missing on this football team. Alright? We ALL saw this back in the preseason and we all were concerned about it going into the regular season. Because once the starters came out of the line up there was a gigantic drop off in the level of play across the board between the second string and third string performers. 

If this team, nets it's 3rd straight number one overall pick? Somebody's head has to [BLEEP] roll. And it's not going to be Lawrence's head or Pederson's head that the Executioner's axe is seeking out. It'll be Baalke. Somebody has to answer for that. For better or worse. I don't think anybody is saying it's easy. I think most, rational fans, are looking at it as a clear failure to execute on every level. 

You have to look at those levels at a player by player standpoint and line them up with everybody else. All of this money spent on defense? Nothing to really show for it. All of that money thrown at some improvements on offense? We're still soul searching here for a legitimate receiving threat on the outside. I don't think Baalke gets another chance next year. They were already talking about the potential hiring of a VP of Football Operations. Spielman's name was thrown around last year. 

If it bleeds. It leads. The same exact heated topic that we had last year will be the same exact heated topic we'll have again next year in the off season.

---

This. Upside, potential, blah, blah, [BLEEP], blah, blah. At the end of the day. It's not showing up on the field enough. Like the local guys have pointed out today on the calls on 92.5. Josh Allen loses containment on that final drive and allows Wilson to set it up on 1st and goal in the 4th quarter late. 2 tackles and 1 QB hit is not the same as 2 sacks and 1 FF. Any fan with common [BLEEP] sense would take the 2 sacks and 1 FF over the 2 tackles and 1 QB hit. 

He's not worth the money he's going to command next year and he's not going to produce anyways. And, much like the Myles Jack contract. He's going to fleece this front office, tie up your cap space when you're going to be hurting at two other critical positions of need, more than likely offensively, and when they're struggling again next year we'll continue to hear the same flock of sheep's stating "Well, he's almost there guys, he's almost there". 

IT'S YEAR [BLEEP] FIVE AT THAT POINT. FIVE!

Four straight games in a row. No sacks. No impact plays. Against three really, really beat up offensive lines in a row.

First, you keep talking about the large amount of money that he will command next year.  We know what he will make.  He will get the fifth year option at $11.5 million.  While not bargain basement, it's also not outrageous and not going to cripple this team financially.  It's well worth the risk.

Second, you can say "blah blah" to the potential factor all you want, but intelligent people definitely factor potential into the equation.  You obviously don't.  We're talking about a former pro-bowler here who is still at a prime age.  I don't believe he's magically gotten worse.  I think his stats have gotten worse because of surrounding talent.  If we upgrade the talent around him, his stats will go back to that level.  At a minimum, let's give it a try.  What if he goes to another team and lives up to his potential?  I'm guessing you will be one of the ones on here crying about "Why do we always let our good players go!?!?!?!?"

Former pro bowl player? Yeah. His rookie year. Off the backs of Campbell and Ngakoue. You know? The guys he was drafted to eventually replace?

You can sugarcoat it all you want. He's not living up to the 7th overall selection. He's not making enough impacts in these games. He's a groundhog player.

Again, I understand the 5th year option. I am not saying you trade him for peanuts. I am also not saying to get rid of him. I just don't want this guy getting a massive per year deal that eats up our cap percentage when he's massively failed to live up to his status.

He disappears in the 4th quarter of games. You can argue all the [BLEEP] you want about it but it's clear as day to see in these last five losses.

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https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...NFUWhteJxg

He might be gone.

Hope it's for a mid first or something.

(10-31-2022, 01:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...NFUWhteJxg

He might be gone.

Hope it's for a mid first or something.

I'll take a WR with some ability to stretch the field and a 2nd RD pick or a 1st RD pick. Anything below that is a bad trade.

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(10-31-2022, 01:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...NFUWhteJxg

He might be gone.

Hope it's for a mid first or something.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

So much hope after his rookie season, about to vanish. He will go to another team and become a forever pro-bowler. Many such cases.

(10-31-2022, 01:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...NFUWhteJxg

He might be gone.

Hope it's for a mid first or something.

I doubt anyone is offering a first round pick.  His production hasn't proven worthy.  I would take a second round pick right now though.

---

https://www.nfl.com/videos/rapoport-a-ja...-to-happen

(10-31-2022, 02:26 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 01:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...NFUWhteJxg

He might be gone.

Hope it's for a mid first or something.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

So much hope after his rookie season, about to vanish. He will go to another team and become a forever pro-bowler. Many such cases.

Not sure about the pro-bowler part but if a team is looking to make a trade right now it's because they're already stout enough to make a play-off run and just need a specific piece to get better at to finish out games. 

Josh would give you a solid run defender for three quarters and then disappear on you in the 4th quarter in long passing situations. HOWEVER, if you're not asking him to be the man and you already have a decent rusher or two, for example, Kansas City, you might get something good out of him. 

Who knows. Maybe the Chiefs picked up Toney so they could ship Smith Schuster off to get a little better on defense.

50 snaps, 0 sacks. I do not remember pressures either.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/jagu...t-analysis

(10-31-2022, 04:29 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]50 snaps, 0 sacks. I do not remember pressures either.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/jagu...t-analysis

First four weeks:  13 pressures

Last four weeks: 4 pressures

(10-31-2022, 06:49 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/Iambwf/status/1587133732833599489

When is that percentage going to translate into an actual stat that counts?

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10th in "Pass rush win rate%". I would hope so, after playing three really beat up and bad offensive line units in a row. Still can't actually finish the job though and get the actual stat that counts.



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It's looking likely he could be traded. I don't think he's a stand up rusher. He was planted in his rookie season and that's where he had more success.

Anyways, who takes his spot IF he were to be traded?

(10-31-2022, 07:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 06:49 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/Iambwf/status/1587133732833599489

When is that percentage going to translate into an actual stat that counts?

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10th in "Pass rush win rate%". I would hope so, after playing three really beat up and bad offensive line units in a row. Still can't actually finish the job though and get the actual stat that counts.



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Maybe when the Secondary and ILBs stop letting guys run wide open all over the field.

(10-31-2022, 07:23 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 07:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]When is that percentage going to translate into an actual stat that counts?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

---

10th in "Pass rush win rate%". I would hope so, after playing three really beat up and bad offensive line units in a row. Still can't actually finish the job though and get the actual stat that counts.



Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Maybe when the Secondary and ILBs stop letting guys run wide open all over the field.

Really? Watch the Giants game and yesterday's game again and count the time in the pocket for opposing QB's.

1 missippi.... 2 missippi.... 3 missippi.... 4 mis...

Jones had enough time to make 2 reads and then take off downfield with his legs.

The clots loss on the road was the only game that really happened with the quick poppers and slants.

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(10-31-2022, 01:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...NFUWhteJxg

He might be gone.

Hope it's for a mid first or something.

This can only mean they are actively shopping him.

(10-31-2022, 07:39 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-31-2022, 07:23 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe when the Secondary and ILBs stop letting guys run wide open all over the field.

Really? Watch the Giants game and yesterday's game again and count the time in the pocket for opposing QB's.

1 missippi.... 2 missippi.... 3 missippi.... 4 mis...

Jones had enough time to make 2 reads and then take off downfield with his legs.

The clots loss on the road was the only game that really happened with the quick poppers and slants.

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We have zero interior pass rush. I don't know why you expect Allen to do it all by himself. Walker clearly needs time to develop his pass rush.

You talked about Allen being at his best his rookie year? Well he also had Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus and Ngakoue next to him. Big difference than what hes got next to him now.

And stop with that, the TE was wide open all day yesterday. He cooked us on every one of their drives. He led them in receiving yards. Dude averaged 22 yards a catch and was running wide open on every catch.