Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Let’s see if he gets back on track in London. I would rather just keep him until the contract runs out. Next year we may actually have the pieces in place to do something decent.

(10-27-2022, 05:59 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Hmm... interesting rumour.  It's one thing for teams to come asking, it's another for the Jags to be looking.  I assume another club asked about Allen but they offered too little so the Jags called up their guy at the station to try and drum up some competitive offers.  The Jags must be ready to deal if they get the right price.

Or no one has come asking about Allen at all and this is how the Jags get his name out on the market without making him and everyone else in the club paranoid about the next week and a half.  Does anyone knows the rules on trade dealings?  Does a player and his agent need to be informed of a club's intention to trade?  Or informed if another club inquires?

Go back and read up on the JRob deal.

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(10-27-2022, 06:12 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-27-2022, 01:05 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Jets have offered to trade us James Robinson in exchange for Josh Allen and a 6th round draft pick.

That would be the most becauseJaguars move in history. Opening up the position for Chaison and Jordan Smith.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand WHOOSH!

(10-27-2022, 08:06 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]The main issue is he is a beta pass rusher.  He needs a dominant guy on the other side.  

There's plenty of great players that are just that.

It's rare that you find someone that isn't that.

Look at guys like Harold Landry. He wasnt living to his draft position up until the Tacks got Jeffrey Simmons.

(10-28-2022, 04:22 AM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Yea defindtly a option

Agents doing a dodgy one , generating media intrest to get allen more money

Most likely this, considering he is underperforming.

(10-28-2022, 02:28 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2022, 04:22 AM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Yea defindtly a option

Agents doing a dodgy one , generating media intrest to get allen more money

Most likely this, considering he is underperforming.

I’m not following how rumors of a trade would get him more money.

When a player isn’t producing he becomes expendable. He’s made no impact on the game and frankly, he has plateaued.

On the business side of things, you have to make decisions and try to maximize value. These guys see him every day and they know when it’s time.

10.5
2.5
7.5
3.0

We can get Paul Spicer type production at a cheaper rate, while trying to recoup value and invest in another player.

We’re 2-5 with him. He’s had atleast 5 different ball games where we needed the defense to make a play and he’s simply not making those plays to close out games.

He’s on pace to have under 10 sacks this season. Not a good look.

I’m atleast listening to offers.

(10-27-2022, 07:02 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-27-2022, 06:50 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ][BLEEP]?  lol  When Jones went down last year they had the worst D in the league.  The Chiefs have had a number of close game this year if they didnt have either of them they would of a couple more losses.  Both are huge to the Chiefs success especially Jones.  Clark was the missing piece to get the a SB vicorty a couple years ago.  2 game changing defenders especially Jones.  If Jones keeps up his elite play he will likely be a HOF

Really? Pretty sure it was Mahomes bailing them out last year against the Bills.

That same defense couldn't get Burrow burried enough in the AFCC game neither.

I bet if you ask any Chiefs fan right now, after how this year has gone so far, they would take Hill over Clark and Jones.

Especially after giving up a 3rd RD and 6th RD pick today to try and get some more speed back on offense.

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I guarantee the Chief’s fans would love to have Tyreek Hill over Jones AND Clark. 

Hill is most likely a 1st ballot HOF’er. 

Leading league in yards per game
Leading league in receptions 

Clark hasn’t registered more than 8 sacks since he’s been in KC and is currently sitting on 3 sacks.

Jones hasn’t registered more than 9 sacks outside of 2018 and is currently sitting on 5 sacks.

(10-28-2022, 08:17 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]When a player isn’t producing he becomes expendable. He’s made no impact on the game and frankly, he has plateaued.

On the business side of things, you have to make decisions and try to maximize value. These guys see him every day and they know when it’s time.

10.5
2.5
7.5
3.0

We can get Paul Spicer type production at a cheaper rate, while trying to recoup value and invest in another player.

We’re 2-5 with him. He’s had atleast 5 different ball games where we needed the defense to make a play and he’s simply not making those plays to close out games.

He’s on pace to have under 10 sacks this season. Not a good look.

I’m atleast listening to offers.

Listening to offers is one thing, pulling the trigger something else entirely.

I am surprised no one has talked about the seasons we have had while Allen has been here:
His rookie season with quality players around him, he was 10,5. 
His second year we went all ‘tank for Trevor’ mode and gave away basically all the talent on the team.
Season three was the ‘Urban Meyer Experience’, and there nothing more to say about that.

I admit that these last couple of games has been disappointing, especially on defense, but I suspect there is more to the picture than just Josh Allen failing. We have had a CB1 that has allowed all kinds of plays, Foley getting injured, and Walker making some critical errors with penalties. Second game against Colts, Ryan got rid of the ball so quickly that there was no time to get to him.

By all means, listen to offers, but don’t pull the trigger unless we are offered a good deal (and I don’t view the JRob deal as one).

Edit: we are 2-5 with Trevor as well, but I don’t see the record being used as an argument for trading him either. Nor should we. We are trying to put together a competitive team, and that means we need to hold onto the talent we have while trying to add pieces. I continue to be surprised with the focus people have an a player’s draft status when valuing a player. JRob was undrafted, so let us forget his production; getting a conditional 5th round pick is good value). I seriously doubt we will get compensation that will let us replace Allens production, so I’d rather keep him for now.

(10-29-2022, 02:53 AM)Norseman Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2022, 08:17 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]When a player isn’t producing he becomes expendable. He’s made no impact on the game and frankly, he has plateaued.

On the business side of things, you have to make decisions and try to maximize value. These guys see him every day and they know when it’s time.

10.5
2.5
7.5
3.0

We can get Paul Spicer type production at a cheaper rate, while trying to recoup value and invest in another player.

We’re 2-5 with him. He’s had atleast 5 different ball games where we needed the defense to make a play and he’s simply not making those plays to close out games.

He’s on pace to have under 10 sacks this season. Not a good look.

I’m atleast listening to offers.

Listening to offers is one thing, pulling the trigger something else entirely.

I am surprised no one has talked about the seasons we have had while Allen has been here:
His rookie season with quality players around him, he was 10,5. 
His second year we went all ‘tank for Trevor’ mode and gave away basically all the talent on the team.
Season three was the ‘Urban Meyer Experience’, and there nothing more to say about that.

I admit that these last couple of games has been disappointing, especially on defense, but I suspect there is more to the picture than just Josh Allen failing. We have had a CB1 that has allowed all kinds of plays, Foley getting injured, and Walker making some critical errors with penalties. Second game against Colts, Ryan got rid of the ball so quickly that there was no time to get to him.

By all means, listen to offers, but don’t pull the trigger unless we are offered a good deal (and I don’t view the JRob deal as one).

Edit: we are 2-5 with Trevor as well, but I don’t see the record being used as an argument for trading him either. Nor should we. We are trying to put together a competitive team, and that means we need to hold onto the talent we have while trying to add pieces. I continue to be surprised with the focus people have an a player’s draft status when valuing a player. JRob was undrafted, so let us forget his production; getting a conditional 5th round pick is good value). I seriously doubt we will get compensation that will let us replace Allens production, so I’d rather keep him for now.

Again, that's my BIGGEST issue and concern with him highlighted above in bold. He was drafted 7th overall to replace those quality players to get ahead of the cap issues we were fixing to face between Campbell & Ngakoue. The 7th overall selection is supposed to be an impact player. A guy that commands respect, demands attention his way from a scheming perspective and can flat out takeover games at times. He's supposed to be a guy you build around that ultimately benefits. He has failed in doing that. 

The other big issue, and, you can probably say the rumors have come to light to a degree because of this. They spent $259.5M dollars back in March during free agency. With $175.3M of that being guaranteed and primarily on the defensive side of the football between Fatukasi, Williams, Key & Oluokun. They also invested the number one overall selection on a player that was to be his counterpart in Walker this year and then they traded up to get another player on defense that same night in Lloyd. 

Allen has failed in seven games to consistently shine or flash or take advantage of all of these additions made around him. So, he's failed on two levels really. I get that we can carry this into next year, which is a risk, and I get that there's a difference between entertaining an offer Vs. actually pulling the trigger on it. 

However, it cannot be denied. Josh Allen simply has not lived up to his calling and he's simply not lived up to a void that we needed him to fill. If he doesn't get closer to double digit sacks this year and we have to go into next year hoping he does so, or, worse, fails in doing so? You have now diminished any real trade value potentially that you could have had more of this year and then even worse, you're worried about paying ELITE level money to this "Blue Chip" player that will ultimately come back to bite you when you need other positions filled with better value.

I don't want to trade Allen but everyone has a price. If I trade Allen a team will have to overpay. We we do trade Allen use his money to sign Higgins and draft Will Anderson

(10-29-2022, 09:50 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want to trade Allen but everyone has a price. If I trade Allen a team will have to overpay. We we do trade Allen use his money to sign Higgins and draft Will Anderson

I don’t want to trade him either. But I do want him to put up numbers worthy of a top ten selection. He just isn’t doing that. I would pay him, and every other player on this team, based on his productivity. Pay an average edge rusher elite edge rusher $$$? I don’t think so.

The team has options. Keep him this year and hope things get better. If they do all the better. If not, he could be traded next year…probably only for a mid round pick. Or, they could move him now…hopefully for a late first. Regardless, I believe he’ll ask for elite $$$ once he does hit free agency.

(10-29-2022, 10:19 AM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-29-2022, 09:50 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want to trade Allen but everyone has a price.  If I trade Allen a team will have to overpay.  We we do trade Allen use his money to sign Higgins and draft Will Anderson

I don’t want to trade him either. But I do want him to put up numbers worthy of a top ten selection. He just isn’t doing that. I would pay him, and every other player on this team, based on his productivity. Pay an average edge rusher elite edge rusher $$$? I don’t think so.

The team has options. Keep him this year and hope things get better. If they do all the better. If not, he could be traded next year…probably only for a mid round pick. Or, they could move him now…hopefully for a late first. Regardless, I believe he’ll ask for elite $$$ once he does hit free agency.

I agree. Move him now and get more value. If you wait to move him, his value goes down. 

Let’s be honest, he’s not going to get any better than his rookie season. He probably never touches 10.5 again. That was a legendary defense he was on. Probably time to move on.

(10-29-2022, 10:19 AM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-29-2022, 09:50 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want to trade Allen but everyone has a price.  If I trade Allen a team will have to overpay.  We we do trade Allen use his money to sign Higgins and draft Will Anderson

I don’t want to trade him either. But I do want him to put up numbers worthy of a top ten selection. He just isn’t doing that. I would pay him, and every other player on this team, based on his productivity. Pay an average edge rusher elite edge rusher $$$? I don’t think so.

The team has options. Keep him this year and hope things get better. If they do all the better. If not, he could be traded next year…probably only for a mid round pick. Or, they could move him now…hopefully for a late first. Regardless, I believe he’ll ask for elite $$$ once he does hit free agency.

I wouldnt trade him for a late first and i think you could get more than that.  Allen's sack number isnt where i want it to be but hes had a pretty good year, its funny a few are acting like he has been trash.  If we had a interior defender that could get pressure up the middle on a consistent basis him and Walker's sack number would be better.  When the QB is pressured from the edges all the QB has to do is step up because we usually arent getting any pressure up the middle.

(10-29-2022, 12:38 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-29-2022, 10:19 AM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t want to trade him either. But I do want him to put up numbers worthy of a top ten selection. He just isn’t doing that. I would pay him, and every other player on this team, based on his productivity. Pay an average edge rusher elite edge rusher $$$? I don’t think so.

The team has options. Keep him this year and hope things get better. If they do all the better. If not, he could be traded next year…probably only for a mid round pick. Or, they could move him now…hopefully for a late first. Regardless, I believe he’ll ask for elite $$$ once he does hit free agency.

I wouldnt trade him for a late first and i think you could get more than that.  Allen's sack number isnt where i want it to be but hes had a pretty good year, its funny a few are acting like he has been trash.  If we had a interior defender that could get pressure up the middle on a consistent basis him and Walker's sack number would be better.  When the QB is pressured from the edges all the QB has to do is step up because we usually arent getting any pressure up the middle.

Disappointed reading this thread but it's a typical jaguars thread. So who is going to be the replacement. Yall giving me Ramsey vibes of lets get picks like that will fix things. Until I hear who we will get in the trade that's better then it's all bs. We know college isn't the NFL so don't bring up draft pick hope because that's a fantasy. Trade em away for hope. Yea that'll right the ship smh


Better yet, out of all the players better rn, who is doing it by themselves with no dl interior help, who is dominating in the same scheme fit being used the same as he is and then let me know if said players are available. If not then this rumor/move is useless
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(10-29-2022, 12:56 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-29-2022, 12:38 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldnt trade him for a late first and i think you could get more than that.  Allen's sack number isnt where i want it to be but hes had a pretty good year, its funny a few are acting like he has been trash.  If we had a interior defender that could get pressure up the middle on a consistent basis him and Walker's sack number would be better.  When the QB is pressured from the edges all the QB has to do is step up because we usually arent getting any pressure up the middle.

Disappointed reading this thread but it's a typical jaguars thread.  So who is going to be the replacement.  Yall giving me Ramsey vibes of lets get picks like that will fix things.  Until I hear who we will get in the trade that's better then it's all bs.  We know college isn't the NFL so don't bring up draft pick hope because that's a fantasy.  Trade em away for hope.  Yea that'll right the ship smh


Better yet, out of all the players better rn, who is doing it by themselves with no dl interior help, who is dominating in the same scheme fit being used the same as he is and then let me know if said players are available.  If not then this rumor/move is useless
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Here's my stance on it. Stats don't lie. He's not showing up enough on the stat sheet. What else does this team have to lose? It's had how many winning seasons with Josh Allen on it? Zero. 

Now, how many truly, big, memorable games can you recall that Josh Allen has had in his 47 career appearances? I can only think of one. That was the Buffalo game last year. What can you find outside of that? Not a whole lot. Not unless you go all the way back to his rookie season where he was able to string together four or five weeks of showing up consistently.

When it was his time to step up? Take charge? He folded. Not sure who his replacement will be. Question is, why would it matter after this team has compiled a 2 - 5 record with the defense collapsing in three of those losses late in the 4th quarter with HIM on the field? Maybe, again, we need to shift our focus. Defense had PLENTY of attention this off season. Let's go get this offense up and running. Let's go make this offense more dynamic. Let's be that offense that Doug Pederson is trying to establish with Trevor Lawrence. 

If we're going to see 40 pass attempts per game? You need the weapons on offense to make that work. Then, you don't need a Josh Allen on your roster tying up 15% of your cap space when you can take that same 15% and get you better quality players across the board. Sorry, not sorry. Sorry your homerism is clouding your vision. Sorry your homerism has given you PTSD and wanting to desperately hold onto mediocre top ten selections. This team shouldn't have to overpay for him. 

This team has found better players at his position outside of round one by the way historically or through free agency. You should know this being an OG fan. Brackens, Ngakoue, Smeenge, Campbell, McCray, Mincey, Smoot, etc. All of those guys were found outside of RD1 and all of those guys were better or just a step above or a hair below him statistically. 

Stop putting mediocre players on a pedestal. Everybody likes to throw that "BecauseJaguars" slogan out there. Some of you fans on here belong in that category as well with the blind, over saturated homerism with mediocre players.

(10-29-2022, 01:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-29-2022, 12:56 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]Disappointed reading this thread but it's a typical jaguars thread.  So who is going to be the replacement.  Yall giving me Ramsey vibes of lets get picks like that will fix things.  Until I hear who we will get in the trade that's better then it's all bs.  We know college isn't the NFL so don't bring up draft pick hope because that's a fantasy.  Trade em away for hope.  Yea that'll right the ship smh


Better yet, out of all the players better rn, who is doing it by themselves with no dl interior help, who is dominating in the same scheme fit being used the same as he is and then let me know if said players are available.  If not then this rumor/move is useless
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Here's my stance on it. Stats don't lie. He's not showing up enough on the stat sheet. What else does this team have to lose? It's had how many winning seasons with Josh Allen on it? Zero. 

Now, how many truly, big, memorable games can you recall that Josh Allen has had in his 47 career appearances? I can only think of one. That was the Buffalo game last year. What can you find outside of that? Not a whole lot. Not unless you go all the way back to his rookie season where he was able to string together four or five weeks of showing up consistently.

When it was his time to step up? Take charge? He folded. Not sure who his replacement will be. Question is, why would it matter after this team has compiled a 2 - 5 record with the defense collapsing in three of those losses late in the 4th quarter with HIM on the field? Maybe, again, we need to shift our focus. Defense had PLENTY of attention this off season. Let's go get this offense up and running. Let's go make this offense more dynamic. Let's be that offense that Doug Pederson is trying to establish with Trevor Lawrence. 

If we're going to see 40 pass attempts per game? You need the weapons on offense to make that work. Then, you don't need a Josh Allen on your roster tying up 15% of your cap space when you can take that same 15% and get you better quality players across the board. Sorry, not sorry. Sorry your homerism is clouding your vision. Sorry your homerism has given you PTSD and wanting to desperately hold onto mediocre top ten selections. This team shouldn't have to overpay for him. 

This team has found better players at his position outside of round one by the way historically or through free agency. You should know this being an OG fan. Brackens, Ngakoue, Smeenge, Campbell, McCray, Mincey, Smoot, etc. All of those guys were found outside of RD1 and all of those guys were better or just a step above or a hair below him statistically. 

Stop putting mediocre players on a pedestal. Everybody likes to throw that "BecauseJaguars" slogan out there. Some of you fans on here belong in that category as well with the blind, over saturated homerism with mediocre players.

Stats absolutely lie. 
Often. They rarely give you the full picture of a player's performance IMO and can be easily used to deceive. 

In Josh's case, the pressure numbers are too inconsistent for my taste. Up and down like a rollercoaster, with the low points lasting too long. I see your points/perspective. All valid. 

I just value the production we do get from Allen more highly than you do.

(10-29-2022, 01:52 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-29-2022, 01:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my stance on it. Stats don't lie. He's not showing up enough on the stat sheet. What else does this team have to lose? It's had how many winning seasons with Josh Allen on it? Zero. 

Now, how many truly, big, memorable games can you recall that Josh Allen has had in his 47 career appearances? I can only think of one. That was the Buffalo game last year. What can you find outside of that? Not a whole lot. Not unless you go all the way back to his rookie season where he was able to string together four or five weeks of showing up consistently.

When it was his time to step up? Take charge? He folded. Not sure who his replacement will be. Question is, why would it matter after this team has compiled a 2 - 5 record with the defense collapsing in three of those losses late in the 4th quarter with HIM on the field? Maybe, again, we need to shift our focus. Defense had PLENTY of attention this off season. Let's go get this offense up and running. Let's go make this offense more dynamic. Let's be that offense that Doug Pederson is trying to establish with Trevor Lawrence. 

If we're going to see 40 pass attempts per game? You need the weapons on offense to make that work. Then, you don't need a Josh Allen on your roster tying up 15% of your cap space when you can take that same 15% and get you better quality players across the board. Sorry, not sorry. Sorry your homerism is clouding your vision. Sorry your homerism has given you PTSD and wanting to desperately hold onto mediocre top ten selections. This team shouldn't have to overpay for him. 

This team has found better players at his position outside of round one by the way historically or through free agency. You should know this being an OG fan. Brackens, Ngakoue, Smeenge, Campbell, McCray, Mincey, Smoot, etc. All of those guys were found outside of RD1 and all of those guys were better or just a step above or a hair below him statistically. 

Stop putting mediocre players on a pedestal. Everybody likes to throw that "BecauseJaguars" slogan out there. Some of you fans on here belong in that category as well with the blind, over saturated homerism with mediocre players.

Stats absolutely lie. 
Often. They rarely give you the full picture of a player's performance IMO and can be easily used to deceive. 

In Josh's case, the pressure numbers are too inconsistent for my taste. Up and down like a rollercoaster, with the low points lasting too long. I see your points/perspective. All valid. 

I just value the production we do get from Allen more highly than you do.

Facts, you can't just look at a stat sheet.  They lie all the time.  If it was just about stats there wouldn't be any point of a combine.  Guys like Timmy Chang, Kellen Moore etc. would of went first overall.  If it was just about a sack number Robert Quinn would of got a lot more than a 4th, he had 18.5 sacks last year, everyone would want Yan but he gets passed around more than anyone. Allen at times when he he isn't getting a sack he makes great plays in the run game, pressures the QB etc.  Allen has had a number of really good games this year. That last couple games he hasn't looked great but nobody on our team has.

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If we had a guy like Chris Jones, Cox, Quinnen Williams etc. Our edge guys would have double the sacks imo.

PFF grades. Yawn vs Allen

Allen has 3 sacks, Yawn has 6

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/yannick-ngakoue/10703

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/josh-allen/50235

If it was just about a sack number there grades would be reversed. Allen is a much better player than Yawn and it isnt even close.

(10-29-2022, 02:09 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]PFF grades.  Yawn vs Allen

Allen has 3 sacks, Yawn has 6

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/yannick-ngakoue/10703

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/josh-allen/50235

If it was just about a sack number there grades would be reversed.  Allen is a much better player than Yawn and it isnt even close.

I agree Allen is clearly a better player than Yawn. The question is is/can he be elite or is he just very good. We'll have to pay elite money to keep him longterm.

(10-29-2022, 01:34 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-29-2022, 12:56 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]Disappointed reading this thread but it's a typical jaguars thread.  So who is going to be the replacement.  Yall giving me Ramsey vibes of lets get picks like that will fix things.  Until I hear who we will get in the trade that's better then it's all bs.  We know college isn't the NFL so don't bring up draft pick hope because that's a fantasy.  Trade em away for hope.  Yea that'll right the ship smh


Better yet, out of all the players better rn, who is doing it by themselves with no dl interior help, who is dominating in the same scheme fit being used the same as he is and then let me know if said players are available.  If not then this rumor/move is useless
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Here's my stance on it. Stats don't lie.

In baseball, maybe.  Not in football though.  I see people here routinely jump to conclusions from stat sheets and box scores and it's clear they've either forgotten the game they just watched, never watched it or don't know what they're looking at.