Quote:Guess they have to make that "view on one page" button in 72 point font for you. It does mention chasing every potential tunnel is too expensive and that the makeup of the soil near the border is perfect for making tunnels. Nice to know you can continue your argument without reading the evidence which points out a wall is moronic. You don't want to even consider evidence which may make your argument invalid. You just want to stay on your same trajectory. That's cognitive dissonance. A wall that can be foiled by a tunnel is ineffective. That's common sense which is lost on you. Cartels control what comes across that border today. Drugs or people. Tunnel or not.
Everything can be beat so why even try, right? Cameras can be beat. Sensors can be beat. Walls/fences can be beat. Drags can be beat. X's can be beat. Roving patrol can be beat. Radar surveillance trucks can be beat. Checkpoints can be beat. Ports of Entry can be beat.
The soil near the border varies. It's not easy to dig tunnels in soft sand or rock. San Diego is a lot easier than Yuma.
We have evidence that a wall is effective. It's called our current border fence. Or Israel's fence. Or the fence between the Koreas. Even the Great Wall of China was effective for its original purpose. The point being is that a wall or fence is just a tool. A jet fighter isn't an effective tool of war if you don't have anyone who can pilot it. A wall requires boots on the ground in conjunction with it. To say, yeah, but they can dig under it is an oversimplistic way to try to defeat an argument for its effectiveness. You can also fly over it and torch through it. Like I stated earlier, look at Yuma, Arizona as evidence for its efficacy. Yuma, Arizona was overrun and the busiest sector in the United States Border Patrol. Yuma saw daily bonzai runs where hundreds of illegals would run past 2 or 3 waiting agents who could do nothing except pick up the people who hurt themselves and granny with her walker. The fence went up and instantly Yuma goes from a quarter of a million apprehensions to completely shut down. It takes more than just a wall or a fence, but to doubt that its a very useful tool is to have your head buried in the sand.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/21/ta...ma-arizona
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZQn8UPEzc
Quote:Building a wall where there is already a fence has nothing to do with eminent domain.
So the wall is only planned where the fence currently sits? Oh and land absolutely was stolen through eminent domain for that too.
Quote:So the wall is only planned where the fence currently sits? Oh and land absolutely was stolen through eminent domain for that too.
I haven't read any real plans on the wall, but I think its safe to assume they want to put the wall on the border and not offset.
It has nothing to do with eminent domain presently.
Quote:I haven't read any real plans on the wall, but I think its safe to assume they want to put the wall on the border and not offset.
It has nothing to do with eminent domain presently.
So you freely admit you don't know what your talking about? Less than 40% of the land for this wall is on government land. Oh to build this wall they absolutely will steal from its citizens.
But Trump is a yuuuge fan of eminent domain.
Quote:So you freely admit you don't know what your talking about? Less than 40% of the land for this wall is on government land. Oh to build this wall they absolutely will steal from its citizens.
But Trump is a yuuuge fan of eminent domain.
I see you're a yuuuge fan of non sequiturs.
Waiting to see a plan is tantamount to either being a fanboy of eminent domain or ignorant. Texas is the issue here and we'll see what their solution is between the treaty with Mexico regarding building along the Rio Grande and ranch land.
Quote:I see you're a yuuuge fan of non sequiturs.
Waiting to see a plan is tantamount to either being a fanboy of eminent domain or ignorant. Texas is the issue here and we'll see what their solution is between the treaty with Mexico regarding building along the Rio Grande and ranch land.
Eloisa Tamez could explain it to you much better.
Quote:Eloisa Tamez could explain it to you much better.
I understand what you are saying. What you are failing to understand is that I will wait to see what Trump proposes before I condemn anything.
Quote:Everything can be beat so why even try, right? Cameras can be beat. Sensors can be beat. Walls/fences can be beat. Drags can be beat. X's can be beat. Roving patrol can be beat. Radar surveillance trucks can be beat. Checkpoints can be beat. Ports of Entry can be beat.
The soil near the border varies. It's not easy to dig tunnels in soft sand or rock. San Diego is a lot easier than Yuma.
We have evidence that a wall is effective. It's called our current border fence. Or Israel's fence. Or the fence between the Koreas. Even the Great Wall of China was effective for its original purpose. The point being is that a wall or fence is just a tool. A jet fighter isn't an effective tool of war if you don't have anyone who can pilot it. A wall requires boots on the ground in conjunction with it. To say, yeah, but they can dig under it is an oversimplistic way to try to defeat an argument for its effectiveness. You can also fly over it and torch through it. Like I stated earlier, look at Yuma, Arizona as evidence for its efficacy. Yuma, Arizona was overrun and the busiest sector in the United States Border Patrol. Yuma saw daily bonzai runs where hundreds of illegals would run past 2 or 3 waiting agents who could do nothing except pick up the people who hurt themselves and granny with her walker. The fence went up and instantly Yuma goes from a quarter of a million apprehensions to completely shut down. It takes more than just a wall or a fence, but to doubt that its a very useful tool is to have your head buried in the sand.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/21/take-look-gold-standard-border-fences-yuma-arizona'>http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/21/take-look-gold-standard-border-fences-yuma-arizona</a>
<a class="bbc_url" href='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZQn8UPEzc'>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZQn8UPEzc</a>
If a fence is so effective, why not build one of those instead of a wall? It's certainly cheaper. It's difficult to draw comparisons to Israel and Korea when talking about our southern border. N. Korea has their own troops protecting against its citizens escaping to the south. Mexico ain't doing that. And if you've ever seen a map of Palestinian and Israeli owned territories you'd see they are truly up each other's rear ends. And there has been plenty of bloodshed on Israeli soil despite the walls and checkpoints. We are fortunate that our problems are not theirs. The Great Wall was built to keep out invaders on horseback (or dragons if Matt Damon is to be believed) hundreds of years ago. But to literally waste billions on a wall (where you indicate a fence is effective) is silly to me. I used to work for a company that tracked government spending and I assure you we have enough waste.
Quote:If a fence is so effective, why not build one of those instead of a wall? It's certainly cheaper. It's difficult to draw comparisons to Israel and Korea when talking about our southern border. N. Korea has their own troops protecting against its citizens escaping to the south. Mexico ain't doing that. And if you've ever seen a map of Palestinian and Israeli owned territories you'd see they are truly up each other's rear ends. And there has been plenty of bloodshed on Israeli soil despite the walls and checkpoints. We are fortunate that our problems are not theirs. The Great Wall was built to keep out invaders on horseback (or dragons if Matt Damon is to be believed) hundreds of years ago. But to literally waste billions on a wall (where you indicate a fence is effective) is silly to me. I used to work for a company that tracked government spending and I assure you we have enough waste.
I would be fine with upgrading and expanding the current fences we have. If you look at some of the fences, there really is no difference between athose fences and a wall besides semantics.
To be honest, double and triple layering fences would be more effective than a wall. What makes these barriers effective is the amount of time is delays entry in urban areas where getting away takes literally 30 seconds. If I were in charge I would upgrade the primary fences to taller fences that are more disuasive to jump to common folk. Three layers of 20+ foot fences is what is really needed if you want to shut down urban areas.
As it stands now, there is a shorter primary fence that is easily climbable. They have time to stage all their tools in Mexico and can easily bring them across to climb the larger 20 foot secondary fence. Once they are over the secondary fence there is usually a short chain link fence they can jump with just a t-shirt covering the barbed wire. In short, once they are over the primary and into the United States, it only takes them 15 seconds to jump the next two fences.
All in all, this is just another schtick on the wall.
If this is a main talking point in this election, or a main campaign theme, we are in trouble.
Middle class shrinking. College costs soaring. Students in debt...forever. Low paying jobs. No skills education available, unless you have funds. Crime soaring with shootings,robbery,etc. ...committed from those born here. Our cops on a hit list. Crazy weather that has wiped out towns, that need federal aid...including those who want to secede like Texas.
But yeah..let's focus on a wall.
Quote:All in all, this is just another schtick on the wall.
If this is a main talking point in this election, or a main campaign theme, we are in trouble.
Middle class shrinking. College costs soaring. Students in debt...forever. Low paying jobs. No skills education available, unless you have funds. Crime soaring with shootings,robbery,etc. ...committed from those born here. Our cops on a hit list. Crazy weather that has wiped out towns, that need federal aid...including those who want to secede like Texas.
But yeah..let's focus on a wall.
Dude, Trump spends 75% of his rallies, speeches, and interviews talking about policies designed around building the middle class. You have selective hearing because of your preconceived bias. Border security is just one of his multiple core policies.
Quote:Dude, Trump spends 75% of his rallies, speeches, and interviews talking about policies designed around building the middle class.
No he doesn't. You are drinking the orange kool-aid. He spends the bulk of these speeches talking about how everything in America sucks and how he will make it great again. And he is extremely scarce on details.
Yeh... Trade policy tax policy regulatory reform etc. That's just hot air right?
Hillary: we know we didn't do much with the last 10 trillion and healthcare is about to implode... But if you give us 4 more years we might try this time!
Quote:No he doesn't. You are drinking the orange kool-aid. He spends the bulk of these speeches talking about how everything in America sucks and how he will make it great again. And he is extremely scarce on details.
Taking PT Barnums playbook to every rally.