(11-30-2023, 05:56 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2023, 05:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I've both acknowledged that Biden has a low approval rating and that I wish there was a better candidate on both sides.
Sorry you missed that.
I can make it about Trump if I choose - that's what this thread is about. And I choose to continue to point out to you that unregistered voters got out and registered in record numbers to vote against him once. It is perfectly logical to anticipate that happening again.
Biden's disapproval among the left does not signal that those voters will vote for Trump instead of Biden. And polling 12 months out from an election rarely proves all that accurate.
I believe voters form the youth segment, the minority segment, and the typical left leaning populace will happily or reluctantly vote for Biden to avoid the catastrophe of another Trump presidency. (again) And I believe the 18-21 populace will once again produce a very large number of new voters who will mobilize to vote solely for the purpose of activism against Trump.
Your statements to the contrary are no more valid than mine - except that mine carry the weight of election results from the last race, and many of the state level elections since 2020 that have shown voters' desire to vote down trump, his supported candidates, and to vote against candidates supporting abortion restriction.
Annnnyway - the thread is about his upcoming trials and his former appointees and lawyers who have agreed to testify against him. So I'll let the topic get back on track to that.
Meadows is looking more and more like one of the more willing witnesses for the prosecution. His testimony could wind up earning Trump a felony conviction which would render all of your speculation about polls and voting results null and void.
Meanwhile - Chesebro - who formally authored the fake electors scheme cooked up by Trump and his lawyers - has already plead guilty in Georgia for the role - and has now been granted an allowance in his parole to travel to other states who are still investigating and planning potential indictments just like Georgia did. Trump's impending 4 criminal trials could grow to 8 trials if each of those states decide to prosecute as Georgia has.
While all of these indictments and trials mighty embolden Trump's cult like base to become more loyal to him, any potential swing voters are more likely to be alienated by all of the damaging information and negative press that these trials will bring to light.
Not strange at all.
It isn't strange at all.
The most divisive figure in American politics we've ever known... spurred a reaction at the polls.
2+2=4
If Trump is convicted in federal court, with the federal charges they have filed so far, he still qualifies for the ballot.
The Georgia case, if he is convicted, I think that knocks him off the ballot in Georgia only.
(11-30-2023, 05:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-29-2023, 07:27 PM)Jagger Wrote: [ -> ]You keep citing this 81 million against Trump but don’t bring up the more than 81 million who don’t want Biden back as president. Stop making this election about Trump…he’s not President dude. The election is ALWAYS a referendum on the incumbent. Always has been, always will be…hence why Trump lost in 2020. The public wants Biden out of office. I know you like the guy and all, but he is a terrible, terrible president.
And since you want to bring up history, no incumbent President with an approval this low at this point in their presidency and who trailed by this much in the polls has EVER won re-election.
I said it once and I’ll say it again…if Biden is the candidate for the Democrats, they have absolutely zero chance of winning. Their only hope is to pivot to Newsom or someone else. Hell, AOC or Bernie Sanders has a better chance of winning than Biden.
I've both acknowledged that Biden has a low approval rating and that I wish there was a better candidate on both sides.
Sorry you missed that.
I can make it about Trump if I choose - that's what this thread is about. And I choose to continue to point out to you that unregistered voters got out and registered in record numbers to vote against him once. It is perfectly logical to anticipate that happening again.
Biden's disapproval among the left does not signal that those voters will vote for Trump instead of Biden. And polling 12 months out from an election rarely proves all that accurate.
I believe voters form the youth segment, the minority segment, and the typical left leaning populace will happily or reluctantly vote for Biden to avoid the catastrophe of another Trump presidency. (again) And I believe the 18-21 populace will once again produce a very large number of new voters who will mobilize to vote solely for the purpose of activism against Trump.
Your statements to the contrary are no more valid than mine - except that mine carry the weight of election results from the last race, and many of the state level elections since 2020 that have shown voters' desire to vote down trump, his supported candidates, and to vote against candidates supporting abortion restriction.
Here's a noted Republican telling you the same thing about this dynamic:
https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/statu...81169?s=20
Annnnyway - the thread is about his upcoming trials and his former appointees and lawyers who have agreed to testify against him. So I'll let the topic get back on track to that.
Meadows is looking more and more like one of the more willing witnesses for the prosecution. His testimony could wind up earning Trump a felony conviction which would render all of your speculation about polls and voting results null and void.
Meanwhile - Chesebro - who formally authored the fake electors scheme cooked up by Trump and his lawyers - has already plead guilty in Georgia for the role - and has now been granted an allowance in his parole to travel to other states who are still investigating and planning potential indictments just like Georgia did. Trump's impending 4 criminal trials could grow to 8 trials if each of those states decide to prosecute as Georgia has.
While all of these indictments and trials might embolden Trump's cult like base to become more loyal to him, any potential swing voters are more likely to be alienated by all of the damaging information and negative press that these trials will bring to light.
Calling Paul Ryan a noted Republican, he's no more republican than he is straight. He's a in name only to both.
Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk
(11-30-2023, 06:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2023, 05:56 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Not strange at all.
It isn't strange at all.
The most divisive figure in American politics we've ever known... spurred a reaction at the polls.
2+2=4
Sure thing. It's always SO easy. These systems have nothing exploitable. I'm sure billions and billions of dollars can't manipulate it in any way. We can always trust our authorities. After all, they work for our best interest. It's as simple as 2 ≡ λf.λx.f (f x).
(12-01-2023, 09:46 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2023, 06:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]It isn't strange at all.
The most divisive figure in American politics we've ever known... spurred a reaction at the polls.
2+2=4
Sure thing. It's always SO easy. These systems have nothing exploitable. I'm sure billions and billions of dollars can't manipulate it in any way. We can always trust our authorities. After all, they work for our best interest. It's as simple as 2 ≡ λf.λx.f (f x).
Sure thing.
So these systems are exploited to "alter" elections every 4 years, or just the one time?
What exactly decides when you activate your little spidey-senses of mistrust and when you believe in the integrity of our election?
It's as simple as L2L + tinfoil hat + misplaced snarky confidence = you're making yourself look like a gullible fool
It's fine not to trust the "establishment" if you choose. But trusting a blatant criminal with eyes on authoritarianism because he's "outside the box" is waaaaaayyy worse.
(12-01-2023, 01:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2023, 09:46 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Sure thing. It's always SO easy. These systems have nothing exploitable. I'm sure billions and billions of dollars can't manipulate it in any way. We can always trust our authorities. After all, they work for our best interest. It's as simple as 2 ≡ λf.λx.f (f x).
Sure thing.
So these systems are exploited to "alter" elections every 4 years, or just the one time?
What exactly decides when you activate your little spidey-senses of mistrust and when you believe in the integrity of our election?
It's as simple as L2L + tinfoil hat + misplaced snarky confidence = you're making yourself look like a gullible fool
It's fine not to trust the "establishment" if you choose. But trusting a blatant criminal with eyes on authoritarianism because he's "outside the box" is waaaaaayyy worse.
Does anyone actually listen to this [BLEEP] clown anymore?
He's no better than the criminals he votes for. And knowing who he voted for, and will vote for, should tell you everything that you need to know about him.. Disgusting..
![[Image: 20231126-010416.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/wx0nfp3C/20231126-010416.jpg)
(12-01-2023, 01:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2023, 09:46 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Sure thing. It's always SO easy. These systems have nothing exploitable. I'm sure billions and billions of dollars can't manipulate it in any way. We can always trust our authorities. After all, they work for our best interest. It's as simple as 2 ≡ λf.λx.f (f x).
Sure thing.
So these systems are exploited to "alter" elections every 4 years, or just the one time?
What exactly decides when you activate your little spidey-senses of mistrust and when you believe in the integrity of our election?
It's as simple as L2L + tinfoil hat + misplaced snarky confidence = you're making yourself look like a gullible fool
It's fine not to trust the "establishment" if you choose. But trusting a blatant criminal with eyes on authoritarianism because he's "outside the box" is waaaaaayyy worse.
Nah, dog. Elections aren't simple. It's a massive machine. Distilling a complicated process down to 2+2=4 is ridiculously reductive, especially when you consider all of the strange outliers. If you want to say you trust the authorities on this issue, I completely get that. I think it's naive, and I don't think you would believe that had the story been flipped, but that's my opinion... not putting words in your mouth.
That said, there's a mountain of facts that don't jive with historic data. I've posted it here multiple times... not gonna do it again. My biggest complaint is the Zuckerburg initiative and the VERY tangible voter rejection rate decreases. I also think there was massive ballot harvesting and mail in fraud, but I can't prove that.
I don't think Trump hate "drove" people to the polls. I think it was more likely a perfect storm that allowed more activists to solicit otherwise indifferent people's ballots that were then harvested and dropped off in mailing locations. I think some of it was legit and some wasn't (in that some I think were illegally obtained and others offered voluntarily), but, either way, ballot harvesting is still illegal. I think the Zuckerburg initiative specifically trained people in blue counties to reject less ballots than they should have (something they freely admit), and it resulted it a massive increase in voter turnout. I think this is a simple case of bureaucratic indifference that come from an establishment relieved to have him gone. When you start the investigation with the notion that this was the most secure election in US history, you're going to find what you look for.
People HATE Biden. He's terrible. Using your logic, it should be Biden hate that keeps those anomalies home, right? Why are you so confident they will turn out for him in droves? I happen to share your opinion, btw. Don't think Trump can win, but it will be for the same reason he didn't win in 2020. It's not just a simple 2+2=4.
(12-01-2023, 07:30 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2023, 01:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Sure thing.
So these systems are exploited to "alter" elections every 4 years, or just the one time?
What exactly decides when you activate your little spidey-senses of mistrust and when you believe in the integrity of our election?
It's as simple as L2L + tinfoil hat + misplaced snarky confidence = you're making yourself look like a gullible fool
It's fine not to trust the "establishment" if you choose. But trusting a blatant criminal with eyes on authoritarianism because he's "outside the box" is waaaaaayyy worse.
People HATE Biden. He's terrible. Using your logic, it should be Biden hate that keeps those anomalies home, right? Why are you so confident they will turn out for him in droves? I happen to share your opinion, btw. Don't think Trump can win, but it will be for the same reason he didn't win in 2020. It's not just a simple 2+2=4.
I don’t think he understands how much people hate him as president. That’s the flaw in his thinking. He thinks people only hate Trump, and therefore, no one will vote for him.
Biden’s biggest problem, even more so his age, is the economy and inflation. I’ve said this over and over…like or hate Trump, when people go to the polls, they’re not going to give a rat’s [BLEEP] about his crimes, his tweets, his arrogance. They’re going to ask themselves “Was I better off in 2016-2020 or 2020 to 2024?” And that right there is Biden’s biggest problem.
In fairness to Biden, I don’t think the economic problems we’re facing have everything to do with him. I think his ignorance early with inflation exacerbated the problem, but a lot of people are at fault for the rising prices. But Biden is going to take the blame for it at the voting booth.
I don’t think Biden has a chance in hell of winning if he’s the nominee, and even Vegas odds reflect that. Now the guy who debated last night? The California dude? He can beat whoever the republicans put up. But the Dems seem so dumb and stupid wanting to put up the current president. The guy will have dementia in two years the path he’s going. He gets lost in the rose garden. Hell prolly get lost in the Oval Office soon.
(12-01-2023, 07:44 PM)Jagger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2023, 07:30 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]People HATE Biden. He's terrible. Using your logic, it should be Biden hate that keeps those anomalies home, right? Why are you so confident they will turn out for him in droves? I happen to share your opinion, btw. Don't think Trump can win, but it will be for the same reason he didn't win in 2020. It's not just a simple 2+2=4.
I don’t think he understands how much people hate him as president. That’s the flaw in his thinking. He thinks people only hate Trump, and therefore, no one will vote for him.
Biden’s biggest problem, even more so his age, is the economy and inflation. I’ve said this over and over…like or hate Trump, when people go to the polls, they’re not going to give a rat’s [BLEEP] about his crimes, his tweets, his arrogance. They’re going to ask themselves “Was I better off in 2016-2020 or 2020 to 2024?” And that right there is Biden’s biggest problem.
In fairness to Biden, I don’t think the economic problems we’re facing have everything to do with him. I think his ignorance early with inflation exacerbated the problem, but a lot of people are at fault for the rising prices. But Biden is going to take the blame for it at the voting booth.
I don’t think Biden has a chance in hell of winning if he’s the nominee, and even Vegas odds reflect that. Now the guy who debated last night? The California dude? He can beat whoever the republicans put up. But the Dems seem so dumb and stupid wanting to put up the current president. The guy will have dementia in two years the path he’s going. He gets lost in the rose garden. Hell prolly get lost in the Oval Office soon.
Sadly I think you are correct. Newsome would win on his good looks, charm and charisma even though his every position is counter productive to what is good for America.
There's no way they don't put up Newsome. He's a used cars salesman, but people find that refreshing, I guess.
(12-01-2023, 08:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]There's no way they don't put up Newsome. He's a used cars salesman, but people find that refreshing, I guess.
In politics but if they were actually buying a car?
Car... policy... it makes no difference. It's the same [BLEEP]. You would think these people would learn. At least conservatives recognize RINO's. Dems are going to have to start waking up to these hacks.
(12-01-2023, 07:30 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2023, 01:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Sure thing.
So these systems are exploited to "alter" elections every 4 years, or just the one time?
What exactly decides when you activate your little spidey-senses of mistrust and when you believe in the integrity of our election?
It's as simple as L2L + tinfoil hat + misplaced snarky confidence = you're making yourself look like a gullible fool
It's fine not to trust the "establishment" if you choose. But trusting a blatant criminal with eyes on authoritarianism because he's "outside the box" is waaaaaayyy worse.
Nah, dog. Elections aren't simple. It's a massive machine. Distilling a complicated process down to 2+2=4 is ridiculously reductive, especially when you consider all of the strange outliers. If you want to say you trust the authorities on this issue, I completely get that. I think it's naive, and I don't think you would believe that had the story been flipped, but that's my opinion... not putting words in your mouth.
That said, there's a mountain of facts that don't jive with historic data. I've posted it here multiple times... not gonna do it again. My biggest complaint is the Zuckerburg initiative and the VERY tangible voter rejection rate decreases. I also think there was massive ballot harvesting and mail in fraud, but I can't prove that.
I don't think Trump hate "drove" people to the polls. I think it was more likely a perfect storm that allowed more activists to solicit otherwise indifferent people's ballots that were then harvested and dropped off in mailing locations. I think some of it was legit and some wasn't (in that some I think were illegally obtained and others offered voluntarily), but, either way, ballot harvesting is still illegal. I think the Zuckerburg initiative specifically trained people in blue counties to reject less ballots than they should have (something they freely admit), and it resulted it a massive increase in voter turnout. I think this is a simple case of bureaucratic indifference that come from an establishment relieved to have him gone. When you start the investigation with the notion that this was the most secure election in US history, you're going to find what you look for.
People HATE Biden. He's terrible. Using your logic, it should be Biden hate that keeps those anomalies home, right? Why are you so confident they will turn out for him in droves? I happen to share your opinion, btw. Don't think Trump can win, but it will be for the same reason he didn't win in 2020. It's not just a simple 2+2=4.
That's a big part of the problem with the election deniers. They don't get how much pppl hate that candidate and how easily they were rallied to vote.
Yeah - lots of ppl hate Biden too - but they overwhelming intersect with the same 50 mil who will vote for Trump again. The reach of Biden hate doesn't extend as deeply into mobilizing unregistered voter territory.
It is almost hilarious how many times I've stated in this thread that ppl won't turn out FOR Biden but merely AGAINST Trump and each of you guys keeps trying to put the words in my mouth anyway.
LOL
(12-04-2023, 11:20 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2023, 07:30 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, dog. Elections aren't simple. It's a massive machine. Distilling a complicated process down to 2+2=4 is ridiculously reductive, especially when you consider all of the strange outliers. If you want to say you trust the authorities on this issue, I completely get that. I think it's naive, and I don't think you would believe that had the story been flipped, but that's my opinion... not putting words in your mouth.
That said, there's a mountain of facts that don't jive with historic data. I've posted it here multiple times... not gonna do it again. My biggest complaint is the Zuckerburg initiative and the VERY tangible voter rejection rate decreases. I also think there was massive ballot harvesting and mail in fraud, but I can't prove that.
I don't think Trump hate "drove" people to the polls. I think it was more likely a perfect storm that allowed more activists to solicit otherwise indifferent people's ballots that were then harvested and dropped off in mailing locations. I think some of it was legit and some wasn't (in that some I think were illegally obtained and others offered voluntarily), but, either way, ballot harvesting is still illegal. I think the Zuckerburg initiative specifically trained people in blue counties to reject less ballots than they should have (something they freely admit), and it resulted it a massive increase in voter turnout. I think this is a simple case of bureaucratic indifference that come from an establishment relieved to have him gone. When you start the investigation with the notion that this was the most secure election in US history, you're going to find what you look for.
People HATE Biden. He's terrible. Using your logic, it should be Biden hate that keeps those anomalies home, right? Why are you so confident they will turn out for him in droves? I happen to share your opinion, btw. Don't think Trump can win, but it will be for the same reason he didn't win in 2020. It's not just a simple 2+2=4.
That's a big part of the problem with the election deniers. They don't get how much pppl hate that candidate and how easily they were rallied to vote.
Yeah - lots of ppl hate Biden too - but they overwhelming intersect with the same 50 mil who will vote for Trump again. The reach of Biden hate doesn't extend as deeply into mobilizing unregistered voter territory.
It is almost hilarious how many times I've stated in this thread that ppl won't turn out FOR Biden but merely AGAINST Trump and each of you guys keeps trying to put the words in my mouth anyway.
LOL
It’s true. Trump stirs a visceral reaction in people like no one else I’ve ever seen.
Hell, Marty wants to marry the guy.
(12-04-2023, 11:44 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-04-2023, 11:20 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]That's a big part of the problem with the election deniers. They don't get how much pppl hate that candidate and how easily they were rallied to vote.
Yeah - lots of ppl hate Biden too - but they overwhelming intersect with the same 50 mil who will vote for Trump again. The reach of Biden hate doesn't extend as deeply into mobilizing unregistered voter territory.
It is almost hilarious how many times I've stated in this thread that ppl won't turn out FOR Biden but merely AGAINST Trump and each of you guys keeps trying to put the words in my mouth anyway.
LOL
It’s true. Trump stirs a visceral reaction in people like no one else I’ve ever seen.
Hell, Marty wants to marry the guy.
Well Marty is a decent and long term reliable guy like that. Winger on the other hand just wants one night.
(12-04-2023, 06:34 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-04-2023, 04:21 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]"Another" night..
Ok then. Congrats?
Thanks.. I plan on filing a few lawsuits now.
(12-04-2023, 11:20 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2023, 07:30 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, dog. Elections aren't simple. It's a massive machine. Distilling a complicated process down to 2+2=4 is ridiculously reductive, especially when you consider all of the strange outliers. If you want to say you trust the authorities on this issue, I completely get that. I think it's naive, and I don't think you would believe that had the story been flipped, but that's my opinion... not putting words in your mouth.
That said, there's a mountain of facts that don't jive with historic data. I've posted it here multiple times... not gonna do it again. My biggest complaint is the Zuckerburg initiative and the VERY tangible voter rejection rate decreases. I also think there was massive ballot harvesting and mail in fraud, but I can't prove that.
I don't think Trump hate "drove" people to the polls. I think it was more likely a perfect storm that allowed more activists to solicit otherwise indifferent people's ballots that were then harvested and dropped off in mailing locations. I think some of it was legit and some wasn't (in that some I think were illegally obtained and others offered voluntarily), but, either way, ballot harvesting is still illegal. I think the Zuckerburg initiative specifically trained people in blue counties to reject less ballots than they should have (something they freely admit), and it resulted it a massive increase in voter turnout. I think this is a simple case of bureaucratic indifference that come from an establishment relieved to have him gone. When you start the investigation with the notion that this was the most secure election in US history, you're going to find what you look for.
People HATE Biden. He's terrible. Using your logic, it should be Biden hate that keeps those anomalies home, right? Why are you so confident they will turn out for him in droves? I happen to share your opinion, btw. Don't think Trump can win, but it will be for the same reason he didn't win in 2020. It's not just a simple 2+2=4.
That's a big part of the problem with the election deniers. They don't get how much pppl hate that candidate and how easily they were rallied to vote.
Yeah - lots of ppl hate Biden too - but they overwhelming intersect with the same 50 mil who will vote for Trump again. The reach of Biden hate doesn't extend as deeply into mobilizing unregistered voter territory.
It is almost hilarious how many times I've stated in this thread that ppl won't turn out FOR Biden but merely AGAINST Trump and each of you guys keeps trying to put the words in my mouth anyway.
LOL
Gotta love the catch phrases... "election deniers." Such a supercilious way to start a discussion.
Anyways, I will take this time to clarify that I agree that a disdain for Trump created a bump in turnout. I assumed that went without saying, but I can see that was not clear in my post from the reread. I should have said that bump was not exclusively driven by Trump hate. Mail-in voting, ballot harvesting, big establishment money, and political activism also played a crucial role, which I believe lead to a fraudulent election and indifference from our power-hungry bureaucrats, both elected and unelected.
People HATE Joe Biden. Many, many people are saying they won't turn out for the man. Many lifelong democrats. This is with the knowledge that Trump is waiting. 2020 does not equal 2024, but you keep believing the hype. Trump almost certainly won't get re-elected. It will be because of Trump hate, but it's not the masses that make that happen.
![[Image: SipDn.gif]](https://s5.gifyu.com/images/SipDn.gif)