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(11-01-2023, 06:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2023, 06:52 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]That's one way of interpreting it. That's not how I interpret it. I think he thinks Raffensberger is a coward and is trying to get him a rationale to come forward with the truth. That's another way to interpret it. Imo, my interpretation fits better both with Trump being inarticulate AND the fact that he is incredulous that fraud has not been investigated appropriately. Oh, and obviously if Raffensberger committed fraud, it would be fraud. It's not obvious. This is just another case of people honing in on one part of an inarticulate person's 30 minute conversation and spinning it in ways to discredit him. The media loathes him and has spun and outright LIED about Trump for the last 8 years, but that never seems to factor in the brains of folks like you, Mikey, and NYC. No. Just Trump. Always Trump.
Gosh if only some large group of educated people had warned the masses against putting an "inarticulate" person in a position where every minutiae of what they say has legal consequences. If only.
The same thing could be said of Biden, dork. He's been a gaff machine his whole political career which somehow turned him into a multi- millionaire. Unfortunately, the same establishment that made him rich also protects him, which is why we're talking about Trump and not Biden corruption.
(11-01-2023, 07:09 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2023, 06:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Gosh if only some large group of educated people had warned the masses against putting an "inarticulate" person in a position where every minutiae of what they say has legal consequences. If only.
The same thing could be said of Biden, dork. He's been a gaff machine his whole political career which somehow turned him into a multi- millionaire. Unfortunately, the same establishment that made him rich also protects him, which is why we're talking about Trump and not Biden corruption.
Yeah sorry there's no comparison. Biden's gaffes are fewer, usually not deliberate, and usually have no serious consequences.
You mean there's no comparison for you, because you are an "intellectual" who gets his news from "trusted" sources.
(11-01-2023, 08:17 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You mean there's no comparison for you, because you are an "intellectual" who gets his news from "trusted" sources.
You leave NPR out of this!!
(11-01-2023, 08:17 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You mean there's no comparison for you, because you are an "intellectual" who gets his news from "trusted" sources.
Let me know when 3 different prosecutors indict Biden for his "inarticulate" moments. Let me know when his "inarticulate" word choices lead to two impeachments. Let me know when his cabinet secretaries have to follow behind him correcting what he says. Let me know when his homeland security secretary comes on stage after him to tell the officers listening that they can be prosecuted for interpreting his speech as orders.
Let me know when prosecutors punish anyone that is part of the establishment. You're still missing it. You know these people are corrupt, you've just been conditioned to accept it.
(11-01-2023, 06:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2023, 03:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Tell me this is a comedy bit, please. The bold is some really thick hypocrisy. LOL
I mean - you spent pages telling me there was no way random Jan 6 riot guy wasn't an FBI agent.
Of course he isn't. But you "believe" he is - don't you?
Wow. Real discussion, my [BLEEP].
To the green:
Yes context matters. It's a shame you are completely not seeing the context of that phone call. He had no proof of any of those cockamamy accusations of fraud or we wouldn't be here right now discussing his indictment aftermath.
DUH!
If you want to believe a grifter, and you want to accept a conspiracy theory about election fraud, and you want to challenge authority, great. You're a fool for two of those three - but you have every right to be one.
What you can't do is falsify federal documents and create false electors for states based on some "belief" you can't prove. What you can't do - is try to influence a government official to go against his oath to alter an election you "believe" didn't work out fairly without any proof of your "belief."
That's where orange clown [BLEEP] up.
Now he's finding out.
First of all, I didn't spend pages telling you there is no way he wasn't an agent.YOU DID
I said it was perfectly plausible, and you can't seem to make a distinction between those two ideas. You struggled with it then, and you struggled with it now, because you're the type of person that just "knows." Secondly, the context of that phone call is a guy who is incredulous that people can't see what he sees... kind of like another New Yorker I've been dealing with. Must be something in the water.
You didn't say "plausible" - you were incredulous that it wasn't obvious to everyone like it was to you and that one clown on a YouTube video. LOL
It's perfectly plausible Trump wanted Raffensberger to investigate the election more thoroughly. THEY HAD ALREADY DONE THAT!! It's that simple. He never said make up votes. with what we KNOW now, it's a huge stretch to say he falsified federal documents. If you want to look up the word plausible and understand what that means, we could probably have a discussion about that in good faith. But you seem incapable of entertaining any other ideas but your own. Have fun "knowing." I WILL! Have fun believing lies! I look forward to the testimony that's going to "expose" Trump. If there is anything tangible, I'll change my tune. I doubt it. At best, you're going to end up with hearsay, which I'm sure will be perfectly fine in this case (but definitely not others when it's convenient).
weak
Weak is you not accurately remembering the conversation we had a week ago. How can I trust your opinion on anything if you can't get your bias out of your own conversations? You think you're going to have any impartiality when it comes to Trump? A little epistemic humility might do good for your soul, man.
Here's every bit of that conversation that says the opposite of what you claim. Then again, you don't really care about facts, do you?
(07-21-2023, 02:58 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (07-20-2023, 05:29 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]You intentionally made a ridiculous analogy to make me look stupid, but really belies the fact that you aren't arguing in good faith. Typical reductio ad absurdum argument that doesn't even try to address the points. That's on you, not me. You're intelligent, but dogmatic. You literally have to preclude all of the things we know to make my position asinine. So, let's entertain your terrible analogy....
Is the government known to have the capability to control mosquitos? Is there an expressed purpose for using that capability? Are there any indications that differentiates one mosquito from another? I mean, I could keep going, but it's pointless. If the answer to all those are no, then why do you think I would believe that? Because you think I'm stupid? If the answer to all of those is yes, then it's certainly a probability, and only a blind zealot wouldn't acknowledge it.
The point here is not to say that the government could use mosquitoes in a top-secret way. Rather, it's to point out that you need to use the context around you to determine what is beyond the pale from what is plausible.
We know our government uses plain clothes agents and informants. We have sworn court testimony they did you plain clothes agents. We know that Epps was on the most wanted list. We know that people were arrested, charged, prosecuted and convicted for much less serious crimes. Yet, Epps avoided all of that. Why?
I have never said we KNOW he's an agent. Only there is enough evidence for it to be probable. And, with that in mind, agent or not, why are people on the left not outraged he isn't behind bars? That's the only question I'm asking of YOU. Why shouldn't he be prosecuted? Because a news article told you so? You and I should be asking the same questions.
(07-21-2023, 10:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I apologize for the ridiculous analogy. I was rushing off and didn't have the time or energy to cull through your last post.
Nonetheless dialogue is akin to how I feel when I tell the kids "sometimes life isn't fair."
Sometimes you have to just accept a truth that isn't what you'd prefer it to be.
If you are going to adopt a paranoia about federal plots and schemes and imply alternate motivations behind everything that you don't like - then what is the point here? You are unwilling too accept reality without an attempt to explain it away with unfounded theories.
You are unwilling to take facts at face value. You are unwilling to accept that bad people did bad things in the name of Donald Trump because he lied to them about election results.
It is so simple. People got really angry and worked up because they believed they had been cheated by the American electoral process when the reality is - their guy just simply lost the election.
There need be no conspiracy.
There need be no Antifa and federal plants.
There need be no psyops.
There is no need for me to entertain your assumptions about Epps.
Americans were lied to and made to believe their votes had not been counted in good faith.
So they reacted and did some stupid [BLEEP].
The end.
I don't care to argue the election in this thread. Or at least not until we finish what we are discussing.
The main takeaway (which is where I stand on election fraud, too), is that we get too distracted arguing the what ifs, when there are ideals or questions we would agree on otherwise. My point with Epps is not that HE'S AN AGENT OMG. It's that he should be in jail by the standards that have been established. You and the moderates should watch that video, see incitement and also want him in jail. I get mad when we all agree on a principle, but never collectively push for that principle because we are too busy arguing about speculation. If we both agreed he should be in jail, and put pressure on the government to put him there, then you take away both the possibility of conspiracy and/or corruption.
I don't trust the government. 15 years ago, all of my liberal friends felt the same way. Now, it's reversed, but nothing's changed. I've just gotten older and wiser, and they've just seen their party get power. I think it's foolish to trust what these people say without proper checks and balances, transparency, and accountability. It's just not present in our government. Just like I think we should all agree that Epps should be in jail, I think we should all agree that we want open and transparent elections. For the last 20 years, there has been a dispute after every major election. Something is broken, but instead of trying to clean it up and us, as the collective, pushing for our government to get their act together, we justify it when our side wins and get pissed off about it when they lose. It's a terrible, vicious cycle.
Arrogance means never having to admit you're wrong. Huh... that reminds me of another New Yorker that's constantly in the media. You're basically Trump, bro.
(11-01-2023, 10:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Let me know when prosecutors punish anyone that is part of the establishment. You're still missing it. You know these people are corrupt, you've just been conditioned to accept it.
You've never heard of Bob Menendez?
Are you aware that Bill Clinton lost his law license after his Presidency?
(11-02-2023, 07:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2023, 10:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Let me know when prosecutors punish anyone that is part of the establishment. You're still missing it. You know these people are corrupt, you've just been conditioned to accept it.
You've never heard of Bob Menendez?
Are you aware that Bill Clinton lost his law license after his Presidency?
Bob Menendez hasn’t been punished yet. And did Bill Clinton ever use his law license for anything besides a political prop?
(11-02-2023, 07:19 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2023, 07:05 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You've never heard of Bob Menendez?
Are you aware that Bill Clinton lost his law license after his Presidency?
Bob Menendez hasn’t been punished yet. And did Bill Clinton ever use his law license for anything besides a political prop?
Trump hasn't been punished yet.
(11-02-2023, 08:00 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2023, 07:19 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Bob Menendez hasn’t been punished yet. And did Bill Clinton ever use his law license for anything besides a political prop?
Trump hasn't been punished yet.
Correct, but you cited Menendez and Clinton as examples of… never mind.
(11-02-2023, 01:19 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Weak is you not accurately remembering the conversation we had a week ago. How can I trust your opinion on anything if you can't get your bias out of your own conversations? You think you're going to have any impartiality when it comes to Trump? A little epistemic humility might do good for your soul, man.
Here's every bit of that conversation that says the opposite of what you claim. Then again, you don't really care about facts, do you?
(07-21-2023, 02:58 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't care to argue the election in this thread. Or at least not until we finish what we are discussing.
The main takeaway (which is where I stand on election fraud, too), is that we get too distracted arguing the what ifs, when there are ideals or questions we would agree on otherwise. My point with Epps is not that HE'S AN AGENT OMG. It's that he should be in jail by the standards that have been established. You and the moderates should watch that video, see incitement and also want him in jail. I get mad when we all agree on a principle, but never collectively push for that principle because we are too busy arguing about speculation. If we both agreed he should be in jail, and put pressure on the government to put him there, then you take away both the possibility of conspiracy and/or corruption.
I don't trust the government. 15 years ago, all of my liberal friends felt the same way. Now, it's reversed, but nothing's changed. I've just gotten older and wiser, and they've just seen their party get power. I think it's foolish to trust what these people say without proper checks and balances, transparency, and accountability. It's just not present in our government. Just like I think we should all agree that Epps should be in jail, I think we should all agree that we want open and transparent elections. For the last 20 years, there has been a dispute after every major election. Something is broken, but instead of trying to clean it up and us, as the collective, pushing for our government to get their act together, we justify it when our side wins and get pissed off about it when they lose. It's a terrible, vicious cycle.
Arrogance means never having to admit you're wrong. Huh... that reminds me of another New Yorker that's constantly in the media. You're basically Trump, bro.
LOL
you always do this
When your [BLEEP] argument is shot down you attack me
Lame
BTW numbnuts - I'm a FL native who lived in NYC for 14 years and came back to FL
SO now you're wrong about everything in this post - great work
Now if you wanna dig up that stupid Ray Epps crap
, I'll find you the posts where you go on and on and on about it
All you posted was your backpedaling
I just figured you'd be honest, guess not
(11-02-2023, 01:19 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Weak is you not accurately remembering the conversation we had a week ago. How can I trust your opinion on anything if you can't get your bias out of your own conversations? You think you're going to have any impartiality when it comes to Trump? A little epistemic humility might do good for your soul, man.
Here's every bit of that conversation that says the opposite of what you claim. Then again, you don't really care about facts, do you?
(07-21-2023, 02:58 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't care to argue the election in this thread. Or at least not until we finish what we are discussing.
The main takeaway (which is where I stand on election fraud, too), is that we get too distracted arguing the what ifs, when there are ideals or questions we would agree on otherwise. My point with Epps is not that HE'S AN AGENT OMG. It's that he should be in jail by the standards that have been established. You and the moderates should watch that video, see incitement and also want him in jail. I get mad when we all agree on a principle, but never collectively push for that principle because we are too busy arguing about speculation. If we both agreed he should be in jail, and put pressure on the government to put him there, then you take away both the possibility of conspiracy and/or corruption.
I don't trust the government. 15 years ago, all of my liberal friends felt the same way. Now, it's reversed, but nothing's changed. I've just gotten older and wiser, and they've just seen their party get power. I think it's foolish to trust what these people say without proper checks and balances, transparency, and accountability. It's just not present in our government. Just like I think we should all agree that Epps should be in jail, I think we should all agree that we want open and transparent elections. For the last 20 years, there has been a dispute after every major election. Something is broken, but instead of trying to clean it up and us, as the collective, pushing for our government to get their act together, we justify it when our side wins and get pissed off about it when they lose. It's a terrible, vicious cycle.
Arrogance means never having to admit you're wrong. Huh... that reminds me of another New Yorker that's constantly in the media. You're basically Trump, bro.
TDS TDS TDS
(11-02-2023, 09:24 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2023, 01:19 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Weak is you not accurately remembering the conversation we had a week ago. How can I trust your opinion on anything if you can't get your bias out of your own conversations? You think you're going to have any impartiality when it comes to Trump? A little epistemic humility might do good for your soul, man.
Here's every bit of that conversation that says the opposite of what you claim. Then again, you don't really care about facts, do you?
Arrogance means never having to admit you're wrong. Huh... that reminds me of another New Yorker that's constantly in the media. You're basically Trump, bro.
LOL
you always do this
When your [BLEEP] argument is shot down you attack me
Lame
BTW numbnuts - I'm a FL native who lived in NYC for 14 years and came back to FL
SO now you're wrong about everything in this post - great work
Now if you wanna dig up that stupid Ray Epps crap
, I'll find you the posts where you go on and on and on about it
All you posted was your backpedaling
I just figured you'd be honest, guess not
Sure thing, pal. I'm dishonest because I backed up your false accusations with facts. I guess that logic works on simpletons and drive-by-posters (but I repeat myself). Good to know you're a Florida native. Still doesn't change the fact that you lack humility or the ability to course correct, much like the man you despise.
Btw, I dare you to go back to that thread and find anywhere where I definitively say Ray Epps was a US agent. I am truly sorry you struggle with reading comprehension (either that or you're a lying sack of [BLEEP]). It explains a lot. There's a huge difference between backpedaling and having to re-explain myself as simply as possible to someone who was unable to grasp the concept the first 15 times I posted it.
(11-02-2023, 11:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Btw, I dare you to go back to that thread and find anywhere where I definitively say Ray Epps was a US agent. I am truly sorry you struggle with reading comprehension (either that or you're a lying sack of [BLEEP]). It explains a lot. There's a huge difference between backpedaling and having to re-explain myself as simply as possible to someone who was unable to grasp the concept the first 15 times I posted it.
Watch out, he may dig up a post like mine where I said they needed to murder and kill all democrats lololol
He won't find that [BLEEP] with me. I went back and reread that thread. His "knowing" gets in the way of his ability to comprehend information put in front of him. If he cares to try, maybe he can find some out of context line like he did with Trump to confirm his bias. I'll deal with that if he cares to back up his words with action.
(11-02-2023, 12:39 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]He won't find that [BLEEP] with me. I went back and reread that thread. His "knowing" gets in the way of his ability to comprehend information put in front of him. If he cares to try, maybe he can find some out of context line like he did with Trump to confirm his bias. I'll deal with that if he cares to back up his words with action.
He's full of hot air and hatred. There's no critical thinking, it's been replaced with TDS..
(11-02-2023, 11:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Btw, I dare you to go back to that thread and find anywhere where I definitively say Ray Epps was a US agent. I am truly sorry you struggle with reading comprehension (either that or you're a lying sack of [BLEEP]). It explains a lot. There's a huge difference between backpedaling and having to re-explain myself as simply as possible to someone who was unable to grasp the concept the first 15 times I posted it.
It wasn't in the thread you're quoting from, Einstein
LOL
I've been busy with work - but I'll show you what u said when I've got a minute
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