11-06-2023, 04:38 PM
![[Image: vomit-fat.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/tvgPZHy5Q74AAAAC/vomit-fat.gif)
11-06-2023, 05:21 PM
I wouldn't expect Cleveland to immediately start, he needs a week or two to get up to speed on the playbook. I see him as a December starter to get us going in the stretch run.
It's very important to remember how much we congratulated Caldwell for getting a pick for Blaine Gabbert.
Then it's important to remember who the GM was that traded for him.
(11-06-2023, 09:13 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ](11-03-2023, 05:47 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, say what you will about Baalke's draft day abilities, but the dude is a master in free agency, in-season, and off-season trades. The number of good FA pick ups and good trades far outnumber any questionable FA moves or trades.
Our team is literally bursting with talent based on our trades and free agency acquisitions. Oloukon, Darious Williams, Jenkins, Kirk, Ridley, Zay Jones, Engram... I mean, on both sides of the ball, we got much better because of Baalke's ability to find players that fit the team and are reasonably priced.
Not to mention he dumped Juwaan Taylor instead of over paying him!!! LOL
...Didn't we say the same thing about Diamond Dave?
It's very important to remember how much we congratulated Caldwell for getting a pick for Blaine Gabbert.
Then it's important to remember who the GM was that traded for him.
11-06-2023, 09:54 PM
One good thing about Ezra. He has already played the 49ers and beat them once this year....
11-07-2023, 08:26 AM
(11-06-2023, 09:54 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]One good thing about Ezra. He has already played the 49ers and beat them once this year....
He won't be playing against them on Sunday. Walker Little will be the starter at LG.
11-07-2023, 09:20 AM
(11-06-2023, 03:33 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]https://x.com/Demetrius82/status/1721607...75443?s=20
Walker Litgle is the starting left guard. Cleveland is the backup.
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inb4 (probably not) all the Baalke hate club screams about throwing away darft picks
(11-06-2023, 04:38 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ](11-06-2023, 03:58 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]
You make not like it. But Mikey is right. Baalke is doing a solid job.
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Say it again. Say it again, I'm almost there!
(best of luck bleaching your brains with that one lol)
11-07-2023, 09:28 AM
(11-07-2023, 09:20 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ](11-06-2023, 03:33 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]https://x.com/Demetrius82/status/1721607...75443?s=20
Walker Litgle is the starting left guard. Cleveland is the backup.
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inb4 (probably not) all the Baalke hate club screams about throwing away darft picks
(11-06-2023, 04:38 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]You make not like it. But Mikey is right. Baalke is doing a solid job.
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Say it again. Say it again, I'm almost there!
(best of luck bleaching your brains with that one lol)
Lol, I think the Cleveland trade was a good job even if it's just a stretch run rental. #baalkehateclubpresidents2023
11-07-2023, 10:54 AM
(11-07-2023, 08:26 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ](11-06-2023, 09:54 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]One good thing about Ezra. He has already played the 49ers and beat them once this year....
He won't be playing against them on Sunday. Walker Little will be the starter at LG.
So he won't be on the team come Sunday? interesting
11-07-2023, 10:55 AM
i think Clevland either goes into LG or RG down the stretch. Little was the best Olineman before being hurt, so you can't leave him on the bench, but Schreff has had some horrible plays this year and could move him to a backup role if he falters again, and if not we have quality depth for either Tackle or Guard if a injury does happen.
11-09-2023, 08:47 PM
Solid addition to improve the quality of the offensive line.
11-09-2023, 09:09 PM
Ezra Cleveland was a guest on Jaguars All Access tonight. He's seems like a really good dude and a good teammate. They asked him which position he preferred to play, and he said LG. However, he was willing to play any position assigned. Of course, he'll say that.
He's a guy from the West but says his fiancé loves having the beaches close by here in Jax. Happy (future) wife, happy life.
He's a guy from the West but says his fiancé loves having the beaches close by here in Jax. Happy (future) wife, happy life.
11-09-2023, 11:55 PM
11-10-2023, 10:21 AM
(11-09-2023, 11:55 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ](11-06-2023, 04:38 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]You make not like it. But Mikey is right. Baalke is doing a solid job.I'm on the fence on Baalke. It was more about Diamond Dave Caldwell. The man stunk as a GM.
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My overall impression with Baalke's job with Jaguars is that he has been good at hitting the soft balls but hasn't shown he can hit a fast ball. His successes are overwhelmingly early round draft picks and high priced free agents. To keep the Jaguars successful going forward, he's going to have find good replacement players without having those advantages. His strength at hitting soft balls in the draft is also becoming more questionable with some recent draft picks not off to a good start.
11-10-2023, 10:56 AM
(11-10-2023, 10:21 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ](11-09-2023, 11:55 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]I'm on the fence on Baalke. It was more about Diamond Dave Caldwell. The man stunk as a GM.
My overall impression with Baalke's job with Jaguars is that he has been good at hitting the soft balls but hasn't shown he can hit a fast ball. His successes are overwhelmingly early round draft picks and high priced free agents. To keep the Jaguars successful going forward, he's going to have find good replacement players without having those advantages. His strength at hitting soft balls in the draft is also becoming more questionable with some recent draft picks not off to a good start.
Rather than baseball analogies and vagaries - could you just identify all the picks you think he has screwed up?
11-10-2023, 02:14 PM
(11-10-2023, 10:56 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-10-2023, 10:21 AM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]My overall impression with Baalke's job with Jaguars is that he has been good at hitting the soft balls but hasn't shown he can hit a fast ball. His successes are overwhelmingly early round draft picks and high priced free agents. To keep the Jaguars successful going forward, he's going to have find good replacement players without having those advantages. His strength at hitting soft balls in the draft is also becoming more questionable with some recent draft picks not off to a good start.
Rather than baseball analogies and vagaries - could you just identify all the picks you think he has screwed up?
I don't particularly like the term "screwed up". I do think there's a number of picks where a different GM would have gone in a different direction which likely would have generated more benefit to the team.
I don't think Baalke has done a good job on Day Three of the draft. In 2021, he had 4 draft picks on Day Three. 3 of the 4 are no longer on the team and the one exception is a tight end with 131 career receiving yards over the course of 2.5 seasons. In 2022, 1 of the 3 picks is no longer on the 53 man roster. Another one was cut from the 53 man roster during his rookie year. Although he made the team this year, it still meant that after his rookie preseason, 31 other teams could have obtained his services for the league minimum salary and didn't want him. It also means we could have likely had him for free if we didn't draft him. As for 2023, again, I admit it's early, but if we're giving early grades, it's not particularly good. We took 7 defensive players. If I've done my math correctly, they've combined on defense for 4 combined tackles, 2 QB pressures, 1 pass defensed and 1 interception with the interception being a hail mary as time expired in garbage time with the game already won by the Jags. Again, that's combined for 7 players through 8 games. We also took a wide receiver with only a 5 yard punt return to his credit, an offensive lineman who hasn't played and a fullback/tight end who is no longer in the league. I know there's been some injuries, but that's a lot of picks to generate virtually no production.
As for recent early picks that have been questionable:
Travon Walker (#1 Overall Pick) - He's not bad, but has he played at the level of a #1 overall pick?
Luke Fortner (Top Pick in the Third Round) - He's starting but has a PFF grade this year of 47.2.
Chad Muma (Very Early in Third Round) - He only played 26% of defensive snaps in his rookie season and only 24% this year. He has a PFF grade this year of 35.7.
Brenton Strange (Second Round) - He has only played 34% of the offensive snaps. His PFF grade is 46.5.
Tank Bigsby (Third Round) - He has only played 16% of the offensive snaps. His PFF grade is 46.2.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating cutting any of this players. Hopefully, they turn it around and turn into great players. However, if given a choice right now, yes, I would exchange them for other players available at the spots they were drafted. I do think there's big question marks on these players.
11-11-2023, 10:16 AM
(11-10-2023, 02:14 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ](11-10-2023, 10:56 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Rather than baseball analogies and vagaries - could you just identify all the picks you think he has screwed up?
I don't particularly like the term "screwed up". I do think there's a number of picks where a different GM would have gone in a different direction which likely would have generated more benefit to the team.
I don't think Baalke has done a good job on Day Three of the draft. In 2021, he had 4 draft picks on Day Three. 3 of the 4 are no longer on the team and the one exception is a tight end with 131 career receiving yards over the course of 2.5 seasons. In 2022, 1 of the 3 picks is no longer on the 53 man roster. Another one was cut from the 53 man roster during his rookie year. Although he made the team this year, it still meant that after his rookie preseason, 31 other teams could have obtained his services for the league minimum salary and didn't want him. It also means we could have likely had him for free if we didn't draft him. As for 2023, again, I admit it's early, but if we're giving early grades, it's not particularly good. We took 7 defensive players. If I've done my math correctly, they've combined on defense for 4 combined tackles, 2 QB pressures, 1 pass defensed and 1 interception with the interception being a hail mary as time expired in garbage time with the game already won by the Jags. Again, that's combined for 7 players through 8 games. We also took a wide receiver with only a 5 yard punt return to his credit, an offensive lineman who hasn't played and a fullback/tight end who is no longer in the league. I know there's been some injuries, but that's a lot of picks to generate virtually no production.
As for recent early picks that have been questionable:
Travon Walker (#1 Overall Pick) - He's not bad, but has he played at the level of a #1 overall pick?
Luke Fortner (Top Pick in the Third Round) - He's starting but has a PFF grade this year of 47.2.
Chad Muma (Very Early in Third Round) - He only played 26% of defensive snaps in his rookie season and only 24% this year. He has a PFF grade this year of 35.7.
Brenton Strange (Second Round) - He has only played 34% of the offensive snaps. His PFF grade is 46.5.
Tank Bigsby (Third Round) - He has only played 16% of the offensive snaps. His PFF grade is 46.2.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating cutting any of this players. Hopefully, they turn it around and turn into great players. However, if given a choice right now, yes, I would exchange them for other players available at the spots they were drafted. I do think there's big question marks on these players.
Cool.
I don't disagree with any of that. Thanks for hashing it out for me.
I think that most of these issues (and types of picks) are fairly common amongst GMs across the league but it is fair to be honest about how they are working out so far.
The Muma 2023 grade is a bit misleading due to such limited play - but the number of linebackers on the roster( or IR) that don't see the field is an element of Baalke's build that I disapprove of. He has a 70th overall pick and a 121st overall pick tied up in guys to back up Lloyd and Oluokun. That's an odd use of solid draft capital.
Aside from that ^ and not effectively addressing the IOL I feel like he's done well for us so far.
If some of these picks you listed don't develop, my opinion will shift to one less favorable.
11-11-2023, 10:39 AM
(11-11-2023, 10:16 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-10-2023, 02:14 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't particularly like the term "screwed up". I do think there's a number of picks where a different GM would have gone in a different direction which likely would have generated more benefit to the team.
I don't think Baalke has done a good job on Day Three of the draft. In 2021, he had 4 draft picks on Day Three. 3 of the 4 are no longer on the team and the one exception is a tight end with 131 career receiving yards over the course of 2.5 seasons. In 2022, 1 of the 3 picks is no longer on the 53 man roster. Another one was cut from the 53 man roster during his rookie year. Although he made the team this year, it still meant that after his rookie preseason, 31 other teams could have obtained his services for the league minimum salary and didn't want him. It also means we could have likely had him for free if we didn't draft him. As for 2023, again, I admit it's early, but if we're giving early grades, it's not particularly good. We took 7 defensive players. If I've done my math correctly, they've combined on defense for 4 combined tackles, 2 QB pressures, 1 pass defensed and 1 interception with the interception being a hail mary as time expired in garbage time with the game already won by the Jags. Again, that's combined for 7 players through 8 games. We also took a wide receiver with only a 5 yard punt return to his credit, an offensive lineman who hasn't played and a fullback/tight end who is no longer in the league. I know there's been some injuries, but that's a lot of picks to generate virtually no production.
As for recent early picks that have been questionable:
Travon Walker (#1 Overall Pick) - He's not bad, but has he played at the level of a #1 overall pick?
Luke Fortner (Top Pick in the Third Round) - He's starting but has a PFF grade this year of 47.2.
Chad Muma (Very Early in Third Round) - He only played 26% of defensive snaps in his rookie season and only 24% this year. He has a PFF grade this year of 35.7.
Brenton Strange (Second Round) - He has only played 34% of the offensive snaps. His PFF grade is 46.5.
Tank Bigsby (Third Round) - He has only played 16% of the offensive snaps. His PFF grade is 46.2.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating cutting any of this players. Hopefully, they turn it around and turn into great players. However, if given a choice right now, yes, I would exchange them for other players available at the spots they were drafted. I do think there's big question marks on these players.
Cool.
I don't disagree with any of that. Thanks for hashing it out for me.
I think that most of these issues (and types of picks) are fairly common amongst GMs across the league but it is fair to be honest about how they are working out so far.
The Muma 2023 grade is a bit misleading due to such limited play - but the number of linebackers on the roster( or IR) that don't see the field is an element of Baalke's build that I disapprove of. He has a 70th overall pick and a 121st overall pick tied up in guys to back up Lloyd and Oluokun. That's an odd use of solid draft capital.
Aside from that ^ and not effectively addressing the IOL I feel like he's done well for us so far.
If some of these picks you listed don't develop, my opinion will shift to one less favorable.
So, to summarize: Baalke is good at making easy layups, but he's shooting air balls from downtown. He also screws up an occasional slam dunk (Walker over Hutch).
11-11-2023, 10:47 AM
(11-11-2023, 10:39 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ](11-11-2023, 10:16 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Cool.
I don't disagree with any of that. Thanks for hashing it out for me.
I think that most of these issues (and types of picks) are fairly common amongst GMs across the league but it is fair to be honest about how they are working out so far.
The Muma 2023 grade is a bit misleading due to such limited play - but the number of linebackers on the roster( or IR) that don't see the field is an element of Baalke's build that I disapprove of. He has a 70th overall pick and a 121st overall pick tied up in guys to back up Lloyd and Oluokun. That's an odd use of solid draft capital.
Aside from that ^ and not effectively addressing the IOL I feel like he's done well for us so far.
If some of these picks you listed don't develop, my opinion will shift to one less favorable.
So, to summarize: Baalke is good at making easy layups, but he's shooting air balls from downtown. He also screws up an occasional slam dunk (Walker over Hutch).
I don't like using any of those analogies for selecting players in the draft.
The rate of failure is high in every round of the draft and for every position.
Some are better than others - but every single selection regardless of position and round taken has a high failure rate.
11-11-2023, 10:49 AM
(11-11-2023, 10:47 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-11-2023, 10:39 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]So, to summarize: Baalke is good at making easy layups, but he's shooting air balls from downtown. He also screws up an occasional slam dunk (Walker over Hutch).
I don't like using any of those analogies for selecting players in the draft.
The rate of failure is high in every round of the draft and for every position.
Some are better than others - but every single selection regardless of position and round taken has a high failure rate.
Alternative summary: Elite GMs/Howie Roseman > average GMs/Baalke > Caldwell/Gene Smith
11-11-2023, 11:45 AM
(11-11-2023, 10:49 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ](11-11-2023, 10:47 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I don't like using any of those analogies for selecting players in the draft.
The rate of failure is high in every round of the draft and for every position.
Some are better than others - but every single selection regardless of position and round taken has a high failure rate.
Alternative summary: Elite GMs/Howie Roseman > average GMs/Baalke > Caldwell/Gene Smith
I'm treating the Baalke era in Jacksonville separately from whatever he did before he got here.
He wasn't collaborating with Doug Pederson before, and I think that is making a difference.
In that regard - I'm not going to lump him in with one group or category just yet until we see what comes of the 22 and 23 draft classes and how well he manages the cap with the pending big contracts looming.
Also worth pointing out that Roseman, like every GM, has had some swings and misses.
Here are some first round duds going back to 2014 from Roseman:
Marcus Smith
Carson Wentz (~)
Andre Dillard
Jalen Reagor
2nd round duds:
JJ Arcega-Whiteside
Sydney Jones
(there are 4 years with no 2nd round pick between 2014 and now)
3rd:
Davion Taylor ( 7 starts in 3 years - a lot like the Baalke/Muma scenario)
Rasul Douglas (fizzled in Philly - journeyman hot and cold player now)
Josh Huff
Isaac Seumolu
Roseman has his share of wasted capital.
11-11-2023, 12:17 PM
(11-11-2023, 11:45 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-11-2023, 10:49 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Alternative summary: Elite GMs/Howie Roseman > average GMs/Baalke > Caldwell/Gene Smith
I'm treating the Baalke era in Jacksonville separately from whatever he did before he got here.
He wasn't collaborating with Doug Pederson before, and I think that is making a difference.
In that regard - I'm not going to lump him in with one group or category just yet until we see what comes of the 22 and 23 draft classes and how well he manages the cap with the pending big contracts looming.
Also worth pointing out that Roseman, like every GM, has had some swings and misses.
Here are some first round duds going back to 2014 from Roseman:
Marcus Smith
Carson Wentz (~)
Andre Dillard
Jalen Reagor
2nd round duds:
JJ Arcega-Whiteside
Sydney Jones
(there are 4 years with no 2nd round pick between 2014 and now)
3rd:
Davion Taylor ( 7 starts in 3 years - a lot like the Baalke/Muma scenario)
Rasul Douglas (fizzled in Philly - journeyman hot and cold player now)
Josh Huff
Isaac Seumolu
Roseman has his share of wasted capital.
Nice breakdown, but imagine you're Khan. How do you respond to this offer?
Jeff Lurie: "Shad, fans are attributing our team's success over the years to Howie, not me. From one big ego exec to another, I think you can understand that simply can't fly."
Shad: "Well, cry me a river. The fans blamed me for the Urban Meyer debacle. I'll gladly clap in the background while Dougie P. hoists the Lombardi and then does a victory lap in the media bashing his time in Philly."
Lurie: "OK, Mr. Wise Guy. Let's cut to the chase: How about you send me a Firehouse sub with all the fixings and Baalke in exchange for a Philly cheese steak and Howie? I'm getting ready to promote Dave Caldwell. I think he's learned from his mistakes down there. He raved about Trent's coffee fetching skills. Whaddya say buddy?"