(03-01-2024, 02:35 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 11:30 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You're getting distracted.
All of the foreign aid provisions are lumps of money that get used up and are forgotten about within a year.
The border part is intended to change how the border works for everyone crossing it until Congress acts again, which, if history is a guide, might not be for another 30 years.
The border part is the only part that matters, and the only part Republicans in either chamber actually raised serious objections to.
[BLEEP] are you talking about? You and NYC are the typical misinformed "informed.". 11 Republicans said the border bill wasn't strong enough. Mike Johnson said the bill was DOA in his chamber BEFORE Trump said something publicly. Cruz called it a steaming pile of crap, again, before Trump. The freedom caucus objected to Ukraine spending, and, of course, Mike Lee and Rand Paul reflected that on the senate side.
Yes, Trump said a vote for the bill would help democrats politically. However, you can't just pretend that all roads lead to Trump. Trump's biggest problem is that he says the quiet part out loud, which is why leftist media outlets can so easily use his words to damage the Republican party. It doesn't change the fact that it's propaganda. More importantly, democrats shouldn't get to divest themselves from the mess they created just because it's an election year. You guys need to pull your heads out of your [BLEEP] and start realizing that magic isn't real.
Lol... post tweets. Lol.
You're still distracted.
You wanted to read a bill.
It doesn't matter who said what when. If you want to read a bill, actually consider what the bill says, and only what the bill says. Then compare that to other proposals on the table (say HR 2 from last year, or the Rubio bill from 10 years ago), then decide what the differences in approach are and what might actually work. Ignore the dog and the pony. Watch the ball.
Lol, watch the ball, he says... as he fixates on the cups the ball went under. You don't let these turds drop the ball for three years, then come out of it looking like heroes in an election year.
The bill is too little, too late, but I am not trying to compare this bill to any other bill, nor am I trying to absolve Republicans of politics. I support their decision to reject this bill. I know there is some dog and pony happening on the Republican side, but, as usual, Trump says the quiet part out loud and takes credit for what's already happening, which causes NYC to fall for stupid, smug tweets and post them like facts. He didn't orchestrate a "movement, which was my first objection" The second part of the objection was that this bill is just government bloat... of course it's going to get some natural pushback from traditional conservatism. It's not a BORDER bill, it's a SPENDING bill, and many Republicans were already on the record for getting those figures down. Democrats didn't just cave and give Republicans everything they wanted. It's a stupid framing of the situation, done by someone just as arrogant and ignorant as the people that share it.
You guys give Trump too much credit, and you don't put enough blame on the people who are orchestrating this mess.
Dude, how are Republicans favoring Russia? You keep saying this but I don't see it.
(03-01-2024, 07:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, how are Republicans favoring Russia? You keep saying this but I don't see it.
That's the new liberal talking point, it's all over MSM
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(03-01-2024, 07:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, how are Republicans favoring Russia? You keep saying this but I don't see it.
I don't think he's wrong. As much as I disagree with John Stewart, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that conservatives are allying themselves with the anti woke, of which Putin fits the bill. I don't think it's true that conservatives value Putin holistically, but I do think they are finding common cause with the idea that the American government doesn't just get to do whatever it wants. There have been many statements on this board that come across like they are pro Putin.
(03-01-2024, 07:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 07:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, how are Republicans favoring Russia? You keep saying this but I don't see it.
I don't think he's wrong. As much as I disagree with John Stewart, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that conservatives are allying themselves with the anti woke, of which Putin fits the bill. I don't think it's true that conservatives value Putin holistically, but I do think they are finding common cause with the idea that the American government doesn't just get to do whatever it wants. There have been many statements on this board that come across like they are pro Putin.
It's the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation. Putin is still Putin, but you also need to see that he is presented to Western world as the MSM wants. There isn't fair reporting as nothing good is going to be reported here because it doesn't fit the only an evil dictator narrative and no one would really care. Same reporting with the war, nothing Ukraine did was bad and everything Russia did was bad. Republicans don't want to send money to Ukraine because it's wasted and there are plenty of problems at home that need the money first.
Russia is corrupt and to hold power that long, you have to have done evil things. It doesn't mean everything they do is bad. Getting rid and keeping the woke, WEF, global elites, etc out of Russia is a good thing for Russia. Saying you think it's right or support them in that effort doesn't mean you support Russia in any other way. If you know any Russians, all of them were breaking laws to survive during the cold war era. Most Russians just saw it as normal, accepted behavior, and Putin and others in his intelligence position were able to get away with anything.
It's also the way liberals and MSM like to frame discussions. If you don't agree with them 100%, they call you out for not agreeing with them and being fully against whatever they are talking about. There's no middle ground or gray area, it's either for or against.
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(03-01-2024, 10:32 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 07:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think he's wrong. As much as I disagree with John Stewart, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that conservatives are allying themselves with the anti woke, of which Putin fits the bill. I don't think it's true that conservatives value Putin holistically, but I do think they are finding common cause with the idea that the American government doesn't just get to do whatever it wants. There have been many statements on this board that come across like they are pro Putin.
It's the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation. Putin is still Putin, but you also need to see that he is presented to Western world as the MSM wants. There isn't fair reporting as nothing good is going to be reported here because it doesn't fit the only an evil dictator narrative and no one would really care. Same reporting with the war, nothing Ukraine did was bad and everything Russia did was bad. Republicans don't want to send money to Ukraine because it's wasted and there are plenty of problems at home that need the money first.
Russia is corrupt and to hold power that long, you have to have done evil things. It doesn't mean everything they do is bad. Getting rid and keeping the woke, WEF, global elites, etc out of Russia is a good thing for Russia. Saying you think it's right or support them in that effort doesn't mean you support Russia in any other way. If you know any Russians, all of them were breaking laws to survive during the cold war era. Most Russians just saw it as normal, accepted behavior, and Putin and others in his intelligence position were able to get away with anything.
It's also the way liberals and MSM like to frame discussions. If you don't agree with them 100%, they call you out for not agreeing with them and being fully against whatever they are talking about. There's no middle ground or gray area, it's either for or against.
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Sure, he turned Russia's democracy back into a dictatorship and slow motion police state, but hey, he's fighting the three phantoms I'm most scared of, so it's totes cool.
Of course I never bother to think about why I'm scared of those phantoms, or who put the idea in my head that I should be scared of them, I mean I definitely came up with it all by myself and it definitely wasn't Russian spies planting ideas in social media, I'm sure of that...
(03-01-2024, 07:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, how are Republicans favoring Russia? You keep saying this but I don't see it.
Republicans are voting to allow Russia to take Ukraine.
If the USA did what we did to hold Russia at bay for decade after decade, why would you want to allow them now to take over a sovereign nation by force?
And more importantly, once they've done that, when do we decide enough is enough?
You good with them taking Ukraine, Finland, Poland and Norway too?
(03-01-2024, 02:17 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 11:41 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
Oh my word!
A major piece of legislation is multi-faceted??
You don't say??
I've never seen that?
Gimme a [BLEEP] break, man. The bill had the border funding that had been negotiated by the few Republicans willing to reach across the aisle during its infancy. It got shot down by Republicans after Drumpf urged them to shoot it down so the Dems weren't perceived as making progress at the border. They had the votes committed until the MAGA contingent pressured other GOPers to alter their course.
You KNOW that statement is 100% true. This was widely publicized.
Of course there was a ton of other [BLEEP] in the bill. Like there always is - no matter who crafted it!
Of course funding Ukraine is the best available excuse since the public on the right has been duped into favoring communist Russia to sovereign states now.
You have to be kidding me.
What did you say here? 20% of your post is relevant and the rest is wasteful trash. Maybe this is why you like our government so much.
I'll address your logical fallacy:
Widely publicized is not the same as truth.
Hemming and hawing away here I see.
The bill had ENOUGH verbal commitments from the right to pass before the MAGA morons began their little campaign to alter that.
That's what I saw reported over and over and over at the time of the vote from an array of different sources.
You want to try grandstanding here by insulting me and listing a few GOP voters who didn't need swaying, great! Have fun.
Your other tactic seems to be pointing out the other spending in the bill, which I've already pointed out is no different than every other spending bill of any note that these idiots vote on. But keep pointing out the obvious if it makes you feel better.
(03-01-2024, 10:32 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 07:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think he's wrong. As much as I disagree with John Stewart, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that conservatives are allying themselves with the anti woke, of which Putin fits the bill. I don't think it's true that conservatives value Putin holistically, but I do think they are finding common cause with the idea that the American government doesn't just get to do whatever it wants. There have been many statements on this board that come across like they are pro Putin.
It's the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation. Putin is still Putin, but you also need to see that he is presented to Western world as the MSM wants. There isn't fair reporting as nothing good is going to be reported here because it doesn't fit the only an evil dictator narrative and no one would really care. Same reporting with the war, nothing Ukraine did was bad and everything Russia did was bad. Republicans don't want to send money to Ukraine because it's wasted and there are plenty of problems at home that need the money first.
Russia is corrupt and to hold power that long, you have to have done evil things. It doesn't mean everything they do is bad. Getting rid and keeping the woke, WEF, global elites, etc out of Russia is a good thing for Russia. Saying you think it's right or support them in that effort doesn't mean you support Russia in any other way. If you know any Russians, all of them were breaking laws to survive during the cold war era. Most Russians just saw it as normal, accepted behavior, and Putin and others in his intelligence position were able to get away with anything.
It's also the way liberals and MSM like to frame discussions. If you don't agree with them 100%, they call you out for not agreeing with them and being fully against whatever they are talking about. There's no middle ground or gray area, it's either for or against.
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He clearly assassinates his political opposition and appears to be a de facto dictator since he's been in power in one form or another since 1999. Voters don't have a real voice in Russia if their chosen champion is assassinated for being out of power and in the minority. These statements shouldn't be construed as pro-Ukraine. The situation as a whole may not be cut and dry. Opposing Putin should be though. He's not doing any of this to "fight Nazis" in Ukraine as I've seen some say previously. He's doing it to increase power and influence.
(03-01-2024, 07:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 07:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, how are Republicans favoring Russia? You keep saying this but I don't see it.
I don't think he's wrong. As much as I disagree with John Stewart, I think he hit the nail on the head when he said that conservatives are allying themselves with the anti woke, of which Putin fits the bill. I don't think it's true that conservatives value Putin holistically, but I do think they are finding common cause with the idea that the American government doesn't just get to do whatever it wants. There have been many statements on this board that come across like they are pro Putin.
Thanks. I don't watch much news on the regular and the most I get in one dose is at my neighbor's when I go clean his house and drop off groceries, prescriptions, etc., and he's a Fox News guy. Not my cup of tea. I do look at different news sites from time to time to have an idea of what's going on. I just can't get too involved in it or I can become obsessed and go down rabbit holes.
I also don't read every single post here so I don't catch everything.
As for the part in bold I guess I don't think the way most folks do. I may not agree with the progressive left agenda but I'm not going to swing to the far right or support someone who is no better than who I'm objecting to (in their own way) just to prove a point. That makes no sense to me.
(03-02-2024, 01:11 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 10:32 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]It's the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation. Putin is still Putin, but you also need to see that he is presented to Western world as the MSM wants. There isn't fair reporting as nothing good is going to be reported here because it doesn't fit the only an evil dictator narrative and no one would really care. Same reporting with the war, nothing Ukraine did was bad and everything Russia did was bad. Republicans don't want to send money to Ukraine because it's wasted and there are plenty of problems at home that need the money first.
Russia is corrupt and to hold power that long, you have to have done evil things. It doesn't mean everything they do is bad. Getting rid and keeping the woke, WEF, global elites, etc out of Russia is a good thing for Russia. Saying you think it's right or support them in that effort doesn't mean you support Russia in any other way. If you know any Russians, all of them were breaking laws to survive during the cold war era. Most Russians just saw it as normal, accepted behavior, and Putin and others in his intelligence position were able to get away with anything.
It's also the way liberals and MSM like to frame discussions. If you don't agree with them 100%, they call you out for not agreeing with them and being fully against whatever they are talking about. There's no middle ground or gray area, it's either for or against.
Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk
He clearly assassinates his political opposition and appears to be a de facto dictator since he's been in power in one form or another since 1999. Voters don't have a real voice in Russia if their chosen champion is assassinated for being out of power and in the minority. These statements shouldn't be construed as pro-Ukraine. The situation as a whole may not be cut and dry. Opposing Putin should be though. He's not doing any of this to "fight Nazis" in Ukraine as I've seen some say previously. He's doing it to increase power and influence.
Putin is a dictator and a piece of trash, but so is Zelenskyy and I'm not going to let this trash government try to convince me otherwise..
And I still trust Putin more than any Democrat in office.
(03-02-2024, 10:18 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 07:16 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, how are Republicans favoring Russia? You keep saying this but I don't see it.
Republicans are voting to allow Russia to take Ukraine.
If the USA did what we did to hold Russia at bay for decade after decade, why would you want to allow them now to take over a sovereign nation by force?
And more importantly, once they've done that, when do we decide enough is enough?
You good with them taking Ukraine, Finland, Poland and Norway too?
I see what you're saying now. I wasn't connecting the bills in Congress with what you were saying before. It's been a long week or three.
I think Putin needs to stay in his lane and leave these other countries alone. I also think we have given a [BLEEP] ton of money and weapons to Ukraine and other countries need to step up and do their part. We are not the world's police but I also recognize sometimes things have to be addressed by us because other countries lack the stones to do it.
(03-02-2024, 01:54 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2024, 10:18 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Republicans are voting to allow Russia to take Ukraine.
If the USA did what we did to hold Russia at bay for decade after decade, why would you want to allow them now to take over a sovereign nation by force?
And more importantly, once they've done that, when do we decide enough is enough?
You good with them taking Ukraine, Finland, Poland and Norway too?
I see what you're saying now. I wasn't connecting the bills in Congress with what you were saying before. It's been a long week or three.
I think Putin needs to stay in his lane and leave these other countries alone. I also think we have given a [BLEEP] ton of money and weapons to Ukraine and other countries need to step up and do their part. We are not the world's police but I also recognize sometimes things have to be addressed by us because other countries lack the stones to do it.
Right
It is a grotesque amount of money we have hemorrhaged to help Ukraine continue fending off Putin.
I'd love to find ways to get other nations to help more than they already are to alter the lop-sided numbers.
And being the de facto "world police" should not be our constant role. I agree.
But we also can't just piss away the decades spent being the primary opposition to Russia (and whatever sliding scale of communism they happen to operate under at a given time) while they just bulldoze through their neighboring countries and take over. (robbing the US of allies and strategic military outposts as they go)
So what do you do?
The other side of this - that is more on topic - is that we are treating our migrant problem with a similar half cocked approach. Cooperation with other nations is not happening on the level required to address the REAL problems of migrants and refugees the same way it isn't happening enough with our world police situation. But this has been a constant through every administration in my lifetime. It isn't a partisan problem. It's what we've always done - and since the problem is worse than ever, the global solutions will need to be more widely unified and strategically intertwined.
I don't see
any politicians on my radar that have a snowballs chance in hell of spearheading that from the White House in the near future.
(03-01-2024, 04:45 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, watch the ball, he says... as he fixates on the cups the ball went under. You don't let these turds drop the ball for three years, then come out of it looking like heroes in an election year.
The bill is too little, too late, but I am not trying to compare this bill to any other bill, nor am I trying to absolve Republicans of politics. I support their decision to reject this bill. I know there is some dog and pony happening on the Republican side, but, as usual, Trump says the quiet part out loud and takes credit for what's already happening, which causes NYC to fall for stupid, smug tweets and post them like facts. He didn't orchestrate a "movement, which was my first objection" The second part of the objection was that this bill is just government bloat... of course it's going to get some natural pushback from traditional conservatism. It's not a BORDER bill, it's a SPENDING bill, and many Republicans were already on the record for getting those figures down. Democrats didn't just cave and give Republicans everything they wanted. It's a stupid framing of the situation, done by someone just as arrogant and ignorant as the people that share it.
You guys give Trump too much credit, and you don't put enough blame on the people who are orchestrating this mess.
There it is.
When the rubber meets the road you care more about trying to frame the issues of the next election than you do actually making a policy change.
The rest of what you posted, why should it matter to me if it doesn't matter to you?
(03-02-2024, 01:41 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2024, 01:11 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]He clearly assassinates his political opposition and appears to be a de facto dictator since he's been in power in one form or another since 1999. Voters don't have a real voice in Russia if their chosen champion is assassinated for being out of power and in the minority. These statements shouldn't be construed as pro-Ukraine. The situation as a whole may not be cut and dry. Opposing Putin should be though. He's not doing any of this to "fight Nazis" in Ukraine as I've seen some say previously. He's doing it to increase power and influence.
Putin is a dictator and a piece of trash, but so is Zelenskyy and I'm not going to let this trash government try to convince me otherwise..
And I still trust Putin more than any Democrat in office.
When have Democrats murdered their political rivals?
What do you trust Putin to do exactly?
Kill more dissidents?
The rubber has been hitting the road. Yes. There it is. People need to understand who caused this problem. It was Biden and the democrats. They are politicking, too, by pretending to suddenly care about the border.
If people like you had integrity, nobody would have to pay these games, but you're watching the cup.
(03-02-2024, 05:28 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The rubber has been hitting the road. Yes. There it is. People need to understand who caused this problem. It was Biden and the democrats. They are politicking, too, by pretending to suddenly care about the border.
If people like you had integrity, nobody would have to pay these games, but you're watching the cup.
Both sides play games.
You need to ignore the games and consider the policies being proposed.
Both parties created this problem. The Democrats are actually a little more honest about it because they say "let's be nice to the poor migrants" which is the outcome the big business interests that actually control things want. The Republicans are more dishonest because they say, "let's send them back" when they know the real outcome will be that the migrants will stay but feel more marginalized and less willing to speak out about on the job abuse, also the outcome that the big business interests want.
But you have to ignore all of what they say because it's all lies and only pay attention to what they write. That is the ball.
(03-02-2024, 10:25 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-01-2024, 02:17 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]What did you say here? 20% of your post is relevant and the rest is wasteful trash. Maybe this is why you like our government so much.
I'll address your logical fallacy:
Widely publicized is not the same as truth.
Hemming and hawing away here I see.
The bill had ENOUGH verbal commitments from the right to pass before the MAGA morons began their little campaign to alter that.
That's what I saw reported over and over and over at the time of the vote from an array of different sources.
You want to try grandstanding here by insulting me and listing a few GOP voters who didn't need swaying, great! Have fun.
Your other tactic seems to be pointing out the other spending in the bill, which I've already pointed out is no different than every other spending bill of any note that these idiots vote on. But keep pointing out the obvious if it makes you feel better.
... hemming and hawing? Sure thing, bud. I'm not insulting you... you are insulting yourself by oversimplifying a complex issue, laughing like a maniac, then blowing the smoke off your two water guns as you holster them and saunter off into the sunset. You're whole shtick is weak, cowboy.
The tactic of pointing out the contents of the spending bill was to show that it wasn't just a border finding issue, and several Republicans had already objected to other funding, even while the bill was being created. Many Republicans were already objecting to it before trump said anything, including the speaker of the house said the deal was DOA. Which, you should know, cowboy, is kind of a deal. But nah.... Trump, Trump, Trump....squirt, squirt, squirt... Yippee ki yay, mother [BLEEP]. LOL. HAHAHA. HEM AND HAW.
You're the one that came in hot, dude.
(03-02-2024, 05:47 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-02-2024, 05:28 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The rubber has been hitting the road. Yes. There it is. People need to understand who caused this problem. It was Biden and the democrats. They are politicking, too, by pretending to suddenly care about the border.
If people like you had integrity, nobody would have to pay these games, but you're watching the cup.
Both sides play games.
You need to ignore the games and consider the policies being proposed.
Both parties created this problem. The Democrats are actually a little more honest about it because they say "let's be nice to the poor migrants" which is the outcome the big business interests that actually control things want. The Republicans are more dishonest because they say, "let's send them back" when they know the real outcome will be that the migrants will stay but feel more marginalized and less willing to speak out about on the job abuse, also the outcome that the big business interests want.
But you have to ignore all of what they say because it's all lies and only pay attention to what they write. That is the ball.
You are watching the cups. We can't see the ball. That's how the game is played. That's politics. Governance is what happens when they lift the cups. Are you losing money or making money? Is it a fair game? In our case, it's not a fair game, and you're the mark.
I don't care how democrats and Republicans play politics to get elected. I care how we are being governed. Democrats have lied to us for years about the border. Years. Sorry if I don't care that Republicans want to let them hang themselves in those lies.
You clearly don't try to understand the conservative position reflected by many in these boards, either. They hate establishment republicans who absolutely lie about their intentions. We're trying to get them out.