(03-05-2024, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 03:48 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Mitch McConnell blames Mike Johnson for his reversal. Why don't you post this widely reported honest journalism you keep talking about.
It was literally a headline on every news outlet. You've gotta be kidding me.
There is no point leading the horse to water when the horse is a conspiracy theorist that is just gonna tell me the water was put there by Antifa and its not actually water.
As always - we're back to the "alternate facts" portion of the pointless debate.
L2L has already said that ANY big bill on ANY big topic should not be approved at this time because it would help Biden's election chances. L2L puts every belief he has about policy as subsidiary to his belief about personality, specifically, that Biden should lose the election. Because of secret marxists, of course, not anything actually written down.
So even if you did pin him down with quotes from real legislators and real legislation, he wouldn't care.
At least he admits it. Many on this board are beyond convincing but pretend they aren't.
(03-05-2024, 04:48 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 10:08 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You have examples of 6 or 7 GOPers who confirmed they'd never vote for it - vs literally every major news outlet reporting that the bill had the REP. votes needed to pass prior to Trump's meltdown.
Great. Whatever.
If you want to get down to the straw that broke the camel's back on this bill and the votes originally committed to it - look no further than Mitch McConnell.
He and the dozen or so others still invested in his work on the bill even flipped on their own damn legislation after Trump demanded they not give Dems a border "win"
You can cling to an inaccurate version of events if it makes you feel better, but that bill was set to pass before Trump killed it over political pettiness.
Which "every major news outlets" were supposedly "reporting" that Republicans were backing the bill? Do they have Republicans on camera saying that they supported the bill (or not)? When was that "reported"?
The bill was dead long before President Trump said anything publicly.
The bill was never about border security and everything about sending more money overseas to Ukraine and a lesser extent Israel.
Be that as it may, we should continue to aid both Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan. Ukraine is the most desperate at the moment.
(03-05-2024, 05:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]It was literally a headline on every news outlet. You've gotta be kidding me.
There is no point leading the horse to water when the horse is a conspiracy theorist that is just gonna tell me the water was put there by Antifa and its not actually water.
As always - we're back to the "alternate facts" portion of the pointless debate.
L2L has already said that ANY big bill on ANY big topic should not be approved at this time because it would help Biden's election chances. L2L puts every belief he has about policy as subsidiary to his belief about personality, specifically, that Biden should lose the election. Because of secret marxists, of course, not anything actually written down.
So even if you did pin him down with quotes from real legislators and real legislation, he wouldn't care.
At least he admits it. Many on this board are beyond convincing but pretend they aren't.
(03-05-2024, 04:48 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Which "every major news outlets" were supposedly "reporting" that Republicans were backing the bill? Do they have Republicans on camera saying that they supported the bill (or not)? When was that "reported"?
The bill was dead long before President Trump said anything publicly.
The bill was never about border security and everything about sending more money overseas to Ukraine and a lesser extent Israel.
Be that as it may, we should continue to aid both Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan. Ukraine is the most desperate at the moment.
[BLEEP] the Ukraine. They are neo nazis and Zelenksy is a billionaire because of this war.
Israel and Taiwan yes. But [BLEEP] Ukraine
(03-05-2024, 05:36 PM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 05:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]L2L has already said that ANY big bill on ANY big topic should not be approved at this time because it would help Biden's election chances. L2L puts every belief he has about policy as subsidiary to his belief about personality, specifically, that Biden should lose the election. Because of secret marxists, of course, not anything actually written down.
So even if you did pin him down with quotes from real legislators and real legislation, he wouldn't care.
At least he admits it. Many on this board are beyond convincing but pretend they aren't.
Be that as it may, we should continue to aid both Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan. Ukraine is the most desperate at the moment.
[BLEEP] the Ukraine. They are neo nazis and Zelenksy is a billionaire because of this war.
Israel and Taiwan yes. But [BLEEP] Ukraine
Someone check this guy's IP address... probably Moscow...
(03-05-2024, 06:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 05:36 PM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ][BLEEP] the Ukraine. They are neo nazis and Zelenksy is a billionaire because of this war.
Israel and Taiwan yes. But [BLEEP] Ukraine
Someone check this guy's IP address... probably Moscow...
Meh, I'm in Neptune Beach and I agree with that sentiment.
(03-05-2024, 05:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]It was literally a headline on every news outlet. You've gotta be kidding me.
There is no point leading the horse to water when the horse is a conspiracy theorist that is just gonna tell me the water was put there by Antifa and its not actually water.
As always - we're back to the "alternate facts" portion of the pointless debate.
L2L has already said that ANY big bill on ANY big topic should not be approved at this time because it would help Biden's election chances. L2L puts every belief he has about policy as subsidiary to his belief about personality, specifically, that Biden should lose the election. Because of secret marxists, of course, not anything actually written down.
So even if you did pin him down with quotes from real legislators and real legislation, he wouldn't care.
At least he admits it. Many on this board are beyond convincing but pretend they aren't.
(03-05-2024, 04:48 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Which "every major news outlets" were supposedly "reporting" that Republicans were backing the bill? Do they have Republicans on camera saying that they supported the bill (or not)? When was that "reported"?
The bill was dead long before President Trump said anything publicly.
The bill was never about border security and everything about sending more money overseas to Ukraine and a lesser extent Israel.
Be that as it may, we should continue to aid both Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan. Ukraine is the most desperate at the moment.
Politicking is about how one positions for power. Governance it what one does with power. You correctly noticing republican politicking, while simultaneously confusing democrats politicking for governance. If you were capable of critical thought (like you seem to think you are) you would be able to "watch the ball, "as you are so fond of saying.
Democrats are destroying our country with bad governance. Period. You don't give them a political win so they can stay in power and keep ruining the country. I wish politics were not necessary, but too many people, including yourself, are not capable of discerning lie from truth because the lies get "widely reported." So, yeah... I'm not focused on the politics. It's the same reason I think establishment Republicans need to go, too.
Btw, none of this has to do with personality, so it's ridiculous you tried to even frame it that way, in addition to creating a strawman about conspiracies. Stick to the main argument instead of misrepresenting my position for internet clout or whatever it is you're getting from this board.
(03-05-2024, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 03:48 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Mitch McConnell blames Mike Johnson for his reversal. Why don't you post this widely reported honest journalism you keep talking about.
It was literally a headline on every news outlet. You've gotta be kidding me.
There is no point leading the horse to water when the horse is a conspiracy theorist that is just gonna tell me the water was put there by Antifa and its not actually water.
As always - we're back to the "alternate facts" portion of the pointless debate.
Shouldn't be hard to find, then. Give me some examples. When I look it up, even using mainstream sources, I see lots of info about mine Johnson, but maybe my sources aren't far left enough.
(03-05-2024, 08:21 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 05:15 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]L2L has already said that ANY big bill on ANY big topic should not be approved at this time because it would help Biden's election chances. L2L puts every belief he has about policy as subsidiary to his belief about personality, specifically, that Biden should lose the election. Because of secret marxists, of course, not anything actually written down.
So even if you did pin him down with quotes from real legislators and real legislation, he wouldn't care.
At least he admits it. Many on this board are beyond convincing but pretend they aren't.
Be that as it may, we should continue to aid both Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan. Ukraine is the most desperate at the moment.
Politicking is about how one positions for power. Governance it what one does with power. You correctly noticing republican politicking, while simultaneously confusing democrats politicking for governance. If you were capable of critical thought (like you seem to think you are) you would be able to "watch the ball, "as you are so fond of saying.
Democrats are destroying our country with bad governance. Period. You don't give them a political win so they can stay in power and keep ruining the country. I wish politics were not necessary, but too many people, including yourself, are not capable of discerning lie from truth because the lies get "widely reported." So, yeah... I'm not focused on the politics. It's the same reason I think establishment Republicans need to go, too.
Btw, none of this has to do with personality, so it's ridiculous you tried to even frame it that way, in addition to creating a strawman about conspiracies. Stick to the main argument instead of misrepresenting my position for internet clout or whatever it is you're getting from this board.
(03-05-2024, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]It was literally a headline on every news outlet. You've gotta be kidding me.
There is no point leading the horse to water when the horse is a conspiracy theorist that is just gonna tell me the water was put there by Antifa and its not actually water.
As always - we're back to the "alternate facts" portion of the pointless debate.
Shouldn't be hard to find, then. Give me some examples. When I look it up, even using mainstream sources, I see lots of info about mine Johnson, but maybe my sources aren't far left enough.
Spare me.
In order to govern, in order to change a policy, you have to politick and get the votes in Congress. And in order to gain the seats, and the Presidency, you have to politick with the voters. You know that, I know that. I'm not criticizing the politicking.
I'm saying that the table was cleared to stop politicking and start governing, and too many people would rather keep politicking.
That is not how the system was designed to work. It's not supposed to be all politicking all the time. They have to spend more of their time governing.
And stop getting my points confused with NYC's points.
(03-05-2024, 09:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 08:21 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Politicking is about how one positions for power. Governance it what one does with power. You correctly noticing republican politicking, while simultaneously confusing democrats politicking for governance. If you were capable of critical thought (like you seem to think you are) you would be able to "watch the ball, "as you are so fond of saying.
Democrats are destroying our country with bad governance. Period. You don't give them a political win so they can stay in power and keep ruining the country. I wish politics were not necessary, but too many people, including yourself, are not capable of discerning lie from truth because the lies get "widely reported." So, yeah... I'm not focused on the politics. It's the same reason I think establishment Republicans need to go, too.
Btw, none of this has to do with personality, so it's ridiculous you tried to even frame it that way, in addition to creating a strawman about conspiracies. Stick to the main argument instead of misrepresenting my position for internet clout or whatever it is you're getting from this board.
Shouldn't be hard to find, then. Give me some examples. When I look it up, even using mainstream sources, I see lots of info about mine Johnson, but maybe my sources aren't far left enough.
Spare me.
In order to govern, in order to change a policy, you have to politick and get the votes in Congress. And in order to gain the seats, and the Presidency, you have to politick with the voters. You know that, I know that. I'm not criticizing the politicking.
I'm saying that the table was cleared to stop politicking and start governing, and too many people would rather keep politicking.
That is not how the system was designed to work. It's not supposed to be all politicking all the time. They have to spend more of their time governing.
And stop getting my points confused with NYC's points.
I'm not getting confused with you and NYC. You're the same person. Comfortable know-it-alls who have their worldview shaped by partisan hacks.
Democrats didn't just decide to "govern." They had no problem taking action in the first 2 months of the Biden Presidency and allowing illegals to stream through the border. They didn't even visit the border until election year. That's politicking, and it's really frustrating that you can't see how you're being played. Democrats have to eat the [BLEEP] they made. Republicans would be foolish to bail them out, but it makes sense why YOU think they should.
(03-06-2024, 12:53 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2024, 09:17 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Spare me.
In order to govern, in order to change a policy, you have to politick and get the votes in Congress. And in order to gain the seats, and the Presidency, you have to politick with the voters. You know that, I know that. I'm not criticizing the politicking.
I'm saying that the table was cleared to stop politicking and start governing, and too many people would rather keep politicking.
That is not how the system was designed to work. It's not supposed to be all politicking all the time. They have to spend more of their time governing.
And stop getting my points confused with NYC's points.
I'm not getting confused with you and NYC. You're the same person. Comfortable know-it-alls who have their worldview shaped by partisan hacks.
Democrats didn't just decide to "govern." They had no problem taking action in the first 2 months of the Biden Presidency and allowing illegals to stream through the border. They didn't even visit the border until election year. That's politicking, and it's really frustrating that you can't see how you're being played. Democrats have to eat the [BLEEP] they made. Republicans would be foolish to bail them out, but it makes sense why YOU think they should.
Even if I agree with your characterization of events, that the Dems intentionally created a mess in the early part of Biden's term, and it's wholly their mess, refusing to help them fix it means it's the Republicans' mess too.
(03-06-2024, 08:51 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2024, 12:53 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not getting confused with you and NYC. You're the same person. Comfortable know-it-alls who have their worldview shaped by partisan hacks.
Democrats didn't just decide to "govern." They had no problem taking action in the first 2 months of the Biden Presidency and allowing illegals to stream through the border. They didn't even visit the border until election year. That's politicking, and it's really frustrating that you can't see how you're being played. Democrats have to eat the [BLEEP] they made. Republicans would be foolish to bail them out, but it makes sense why YOU think they should.
Even if I agree with your characterization of events, that the Dems intentionally created a mess in the early part of Biden's term, and it's wholly their mess, refusing to help them fix it means it's the Republicans' mess too.
No. Because helping them fix it helps them avoid accountability for their actions. It shouldn't, but when they run for reelection, which increases the likelihood they get reelected. This shouldn't even be a problem we are dealing with, but democrats need votes and big business needs cheap labor.
(03-06-2024, 10:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2024, 08:51 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Even if I agree with your characterization of events, that the Dems intentionally created a mess in the early part of Biden's term, and it's wholly their mess, refusing to help them fix it means it's the Republicans' mess too.
No. Because helping them fix it helps them avoid accountability for their actions. It shouldn't, but when they run for reelection, which increases the likelihood they get reelected. This shouldn't even be a problem we are dealing with, but democrats need votes and big business needs cheap labor.
Migrants don't vote.
Helping them fix it gives you the opportunity to say, "this was my idea all along" and "these people are weak minded and don't even know what they believe anymore". If you don't think you can spin your actions into a win for your side you shouldn't be in politics in the first place.
(03-06-2024, 11:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2024, 10:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]No. Because helping them fix it helps them avoid accountability for their actions. It shouldn't, but when they run for reelection, which increases the likelihood they get reelected. This shouldn't even be a problem we are dealing with, but democrats need votes and big business needs cheap labor.
Migrants don't vote.
Helping them fix it gives you the opportunity to say, "this was my idea all along" and "these people are weak minded and don't even know what they believe anymore". If you don't think you can spin your actions into a win for your side you shouldn't be in politics in the first place.
Well...not legally anyway.
It's already legal in some places. It's just a matter of who's in charge in others.
(03-07-2024, 12:04 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It's already legal in some places. It's just a matter of who's in charge in others.
Some places let non citizens vote in local elections.
Nowhere lets them vote in state or federal elections.