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(09-10-2024, 04:30 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 04:08 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/RMg1TWq8vl

Yeah, it's almost like the players fumbled away a win or something.

No, we had the lead after the fumble and even after the Hill TD.  It's clear you don't know how to read charts.   You had an issue reading the chart that was posted yesterday as well.

(09-10-2024, 04:46 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 04:30 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, it's almost like the players fumbled away a win or something.

No, that chart indicates that when the fumble happened, the offense went into self pussification mode and clammed up instead of staying aggressive and getting after it. It's almost like, the coaching staff doesn't trust it's players to win or something.

Yup
(09-10-2024, 04:52 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]I know there likely won't be an answer without the bias of knowing the outcome.  I can only imagine thigh if after Tyreek scored if we had immediately come out and throw a pick six how that would have been received.  Especially with how well we had been running the ball up to that point.

Trevor Lawrence was cooking the entire time.  There is no reason to think that a pick 6 was coming.  Not to mention how well Gabe and BTJ were playing.  We have legit stars at WR and TE in all faculties.  You gotta let them play.  Especially when we're paying the QB 55 million a year.  

We shouldn't be a run first team when we are paying our QB top tier money.
I won't disagree with that. But if a pick six happened I am certain what this board would be saying.
(09-10-2024, 05:45 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]I won't disagree with that.  But if a pick six happened I am certain what this board would be saying.

Yes, but that's true of every NFL board in the league.  You can't let fear of a pick six determine your offensive gameplan.
(09-10-2024, 05:36 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 04:30 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, it's almost like the players fumbled away a win or something.

No, we had the lead after the fumble and even after the Hill TD.  It's clear you don't know how to read charts.   You had an issue reading the chart that was posted yesterday as well.

(09-10-2024, 04:46 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]No, that chart indicates that when the fumble happened, the offense went into self pussification mode and clammed up instead of staying aggressive and getting after it. It's almost like, the coaching staff doesn't trust it's players to win or something.

Yup

The chart yesterday was some rando Tweet of some vaguely named stat about "neutral passing" that you likely never heard of either.

As for this chart, as I showed earlier, the early down runs after the fumble worked fine (except the last drive when the "drive starter" failed), once again this team couldn't run for the 1 yard conversion, and had Lawrence thrown the ball on 3rd or 4th an 1 you two would be losing your [BLEEP] over the play call then too. Never mind that he threw a perfect pass on 3rd and 5 that Kirk dropped. And you two looking at this chart and see the 49rs and Jags in the same place on it should really give you some pause about what they were doing in the second half. The game plan took them to the 2 yard line for a 3 score lead with 4 minutes left in the 3rd. The only thing that went wrong was that ETN didn't score. Had he done so there's no Hill 80 yarder and it's likely that their defense deflates and the Jags walk out with a win. Frankly if we're in that situation 10 times 9 of them end up a Jags win, and if I had to bet $10k on the Jags to win starting over from that ETN carry I'd do it every time. [BLEEP] happens, it's how the ball bounces sometimes and the Jags [BLEEP] the bed this time around.
(09-10-2024, 10:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 05:36 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]No, we had the lead after the fumble and even after the Hill TD.  It's clear you don't know how to read charts.   You had an issue reading the chart that was posted yesterday as well.


Yup

The chart yesterday was some rando Tweet of some vaguely named stat about "neutral passing" that you likely never heard of either.

As for this chart, as I showed earlier, the early down runs after the fumble worked fine (except the last drive when the "drive starter" failed), once again this team couldn't run for the 1 yard conversion, and had Lawrence thrown the ball on 3rd or 4th an 1 you two would be losing your [BLEEP] over the play call then too. Never mind that he threw a perfect pass on 3rd and 5 that Kirk dropped. And you two looking at this chart and see the 49rs and Jags in the same place on it should really give you some pause about what they were doing in the second half. The game plan took them to the 2 yard line for a 3 score lead with 4 minutes left in the 3rd. The only thing that went wrong was that ETN didn't score. Had he done so there's no Hill 80 yarder and it's likely that their defense deflates and the Jags walk out with a win. Frankly if we're in that situation 10 times 9 of them end up a Jags win, and if I had to bet $10k on the Jags to win starting over from that ETN carry I'd do it every time. [BLEEP] happens, it's how the ball bounces sometimes and the Jags [BLEEP] the bed this time around.

The 49ers beat the Jets 32-19, had a 26-7 lead in the middle of the third quarter, and they scored 16pts in the 2nd half.  There's nothing wrong with burning clock by running.  

The issue is that the Jags didn't adjust once their lead dwindled to 3 points. Their next offensive drive Pederson made an insane call to go for it on fourth deep in their own territory - running it (unsuccessfully) 4 times in a row.  The criticism is that they didn't let Trevor Lawrence take the game over on that drive.
(09-10-2024, 11:56 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 10:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The chart yesterday was some rando Tweet of some vaguely named stat about "neutral passing" that you likely never heard of either.

As for this chart, as I showed earlier, the early down runs after the fumble worked fine (except the last drive when the "drive starter" failed), once again this team couldn't run for the 1 yard conversion, and had Lawrence thrown the ball on 3rd or 4th an 1 you two would be losing your [BLEEP] over the play call then too. Never mind that he threw a perfect pass on 3rd and 5 that Kirk dropped. And you two looking at this chart and see the 49rs and Jags in the same place on it should really give you some pause about what they were doing in the second half. The game plan took them to the 2 yard line for a 3 score lead with 4 minutes left in the 3rd. The only thing that went wrong was that ETN didn't score. Had he done so there's no Hill 80 yarder and it's likely that their defense deflates and the Jags walk out with a win. Frankly if we're in that situation 10 times 9 of them end up a Jags win, and if I had to bet $10k on the Jags to win starting over from that ETN carry I'd do it every time. [BLEEP] happens, it's how the ball bounces sometimes and the Jags [BLEEP] the bed this time around.

The 49ers beat the Jets 32-19, had a 26-7 lead in the middle of the third quarter, and they scored 16pts in the 2nd half.  There's nothing wrong with burning clock by running.  

The issue is that the Jags didn't adjust once their lead dwindled to 3 points. Their next offensive drive Pederson made an insane call to go for it on fourth deep in their own territory - running it (unsuccessfully) 4 times in a row.  The criticism is that they didn't let Trevor Lawrence take the game over on that drive.

[Image: nicolas-cage-point.gif]
(09-10-2024, 11:56 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 10:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The chart yesterday was some rando Tweet of some vaguely named stat about "neutral passing" that you likely never heard of either.

As for this chart, as I showed earlier, the early down runs after the fumble worked fine (except the last drive when the "drive starter" failed), once again this team couldn't run for the 1 yard conversion, and had Lawrence thrown the ball on 3rd or 4th an 1 you two would be losing your [BLEEP] over the play call then too. Never mind that he threw a perfect pass on 3rd and 5 that Kirk dropped. And you two looking at this chart and see the 49rs and Jags in the same place on it should really give you some pause about what they were doing in the second half. The game plan took them to the 2 yard line for a 3 score lead with 4 minutes left in the 3rd. The only thing that went wrong was that ETN didn't score. Had he done so there's no Hill 80 yarder and it's likely that their defense deflates and the Jags walk out with a win. Frankly if we're in that situation 10 times 9 of them end up a Jags win, and if I had to bet $10k on the Jags to win starting over from that ETN carry I'd do it every time. [BLEEP] happens, it's how the ball bounces sometimes and the Jags [BLEEP] the bed this time around.

The 49ers beat the Jets 32-19, had a 26-7 lead in the middle of the third quarter, and they scored 16pts in the 2nd half.  There's nothing wrong with burning clock by running.  

The issue is that the Jags didn't adjust once their lead dwindled to 3 points. Their next offensive drive Pederson made an insane call to go for it on fourth deep in their own territory - running it (unsuccessfully) 4 times in a row.  The criticism is that they didn't let Trevor Lawrence take the game over on that drive.

The Jaguars should've had a 24-7 lead on the fish near the end of the 3rd quarter, so criticism of the second half plays that happened before that time are unfounded, the game plan was working fine.

After that time (14 point swing) the running game that you're talking about produced 9 yards on the ground then failed to convert the 1 yard twice. They went for it on 4th and 1(!) yet the chart says "conservative" and people are [BLEEP] about the play call...because they ran it with 1 yard to go? I would've punted, but Pederson went for it as he is wont to do and in the grand scheme it didn't hurt them. Last year people [BLEEP] at length about them passing in short yardage and the run game was working against the fish; not calling a run would've been dumb. The players failed to convert the call twice. Did these people [BLEEP] about the Full House Sweep against the bolts in the playoffs that won the game? No, because it worked. They're [BLEEP] about the calls now, not because of the calls, but because they didn't work. It's lazy.

Next series, the run game produced a first down (ETN for 11), then 5 more yards and Trevor "took control" and...Kirk dropped an easy conversion to kill the drive. Conservative? No, "effective" is the right word had the player not dropped the ball. 

Last drive, 1 run 2 passes that got him sacked?  

So basically everyone is up in arms about play calling when none of the passes were effective because of player failure and half of the runs were situational while the others were actually effective. They had the right plan, the players lost the momentum and a huge lead, the other team took it and ended up winning. [BLEEP] happens, players need to execute in the big moments.
Kind of a good problem to have but we have two really good running backs right now. Tank Bigsby looked like a legitimate RB1 and ran with confidence on Sunday. Almost want to see more of him running it and Etienne catching it. It's a good 1-2 combo there.
(09-11-2024, 08:17 AM)Jagger Wrote: [ -> ]Kind of a good problem to have but we have two really good running backs right now. Tank Bigsby looked like a legitimate RB1 and ran with confidence on Sunday. Almost want to see more of him running it and Etienne catching it. It's a good 1-2 combo there.

They looked good on 1st downs of 10+ yards. This offense in general needs to figure out a way to convert the 3rd and 4th situations that are 1 - 3 yards. It's [BLEEP] ridiculous that they can't figure it out in year three with this coaching staff. 

It's getting old really. Hopefully they start the game off on Sunday with a shotgun pass to get Trevor loose and then keep doing that to set the running game up instead.
(09-11-2024, 08:34 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-11-2024, 08:17 AM)Jagger Wrote: [ -> ]Kind of a good problem to have but we have two really good running backs right now. Tank Bigsby looked like a legitimate RB1 and ran with confidence on Sunday. Almost want to see more of him running it and Etienne catching it. It's a good 1-2 combo there.

They looked good on 1st downs of 10+ yards. This offense in general needs to figure out a way to convert the 3rd and 4th situations that are 1 - 3 yards. It's [BLEEP] ridiculous that they can't figure it out in year three with this coaching staff. 

It's getting old really. Hopefully they start the game off on Sunday with a shotgun pass to get Trevor loose and then keep doing that to set the running game up instead.

Agree. And if you can't get 3rd and 1 on your own 28, why are you thinking you can get it on 4th and 1? 

That said, the blocking has to be better. I would say try a play-action there, but it would have probably just ended up in a sack. Any short yardage situation it seems like our line just stopped blocking.
(09-11-2024, 08:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 11:56 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]The 49ers beat the Jets 32-19, had a 26-7 lead in the middle of the third quarter, and they scored 16pts in the 2nd half.  There's nothing wrong with burning clock by running.  

The issue is that the Jags didn't adjust once their lead dwindled to 3 points. Their next offensive drive Pederson made an insane call to go for it on fourth deep in their own territory - running it (unsuccessfully) 4 times in a row.  The criticism is that they didn't let Trevor Lawrence take the game over on that drive.

The Jaguars should've had a 24-7 lead on the fish near the end of the 3rd quarter, so criticism of the second half plays that happened before that time are unfounded, the game plan was working fine.

After that time (14 point swing) the running game that you're talking about produced 9 yards on the ground then failed to convert the 1 yard twice. They went for it on 4th and 1(!) yet the chart says "conservative" and people are [BLEEP] about the play call...because they ran it with 1 yard to go? I would've punted, but Pederson went for it as he is wont to do and in the grand scheme it didn't hurt them. Last year people [BLEEP] at length about them passing in short yardage and the run game was working against the fish; not calling a run would've been dumb. The players failed to convert the call twice. Did these people [BLEEP] about the Full House Sweep against the bolts in the playoffs that won the game? No, because it worked. They're [BLEEP] about the calls now, not because of the calls, but because they didn't work. It's lazy.

Next series, the run game produced a first down (ETN for 11), then 5 more yards and Trevor "took control" and...Kirk dropped an easy conversion to kill the drive. Conservative? No, "effective" is the right word had the player not dropped the ball. 

Last drive, 1 run 2 passes that got him sacked?  

So basically everyone is up in arms about play calling when none of the passes were effective because of player failure and half of the runs were situational while the others were actually effective. They had the right plan, the players lost the momentum and a huge lead, the other team took it and ended up winning. [BLEEP] happens, players need to execute in the big moments.

That's the problem. You're saying the game plan was working fine, until it didn't. They were shut-out in the 2nd half. Again, coulda, woulda, shoulda, but, they didn't. They didn't go up 24 - 7, they let the Dolphins eat away at them little by little after one more TD was scored, they proceeded to get just two more drives with field goals in them. 

It's not lazy to question the following:

1. You just paid Lawrence top tier money to officially be "the guy" on paper. Let's not sugarcoat this. You don't pony up $55M per year to a QB to sit back and throw the football 21 times. 

2. The few completions he did have in the first half? They actually looked pretty damn good, they were finding chunk plays, they didn't shy away from throwing it after Kirk's earlier drop, matter of fact, they proceeded after that drop to at least get chunk plays with Davis and back to Kirk down the middle.

3. The running game was only working on 1st and long. Period. You can go back and look at the splits and breakdowns. However, it's clear that when it came down to the short stuff? Regardless of the scoreboard? They were still not effective. So, the coordinator had plenty of time to adjust and think on that. Just like that dumb [BLEEP] FB run they tried with Bigsby. Absolutely hated that call and the predictable nature of it.

And, again, to come back full circle on this. My biggest gripe. They HAD the right plan. They HAD the momentum. And they lost it. Not JUST the players bub, coaches too. Coaches have to figure that [BLEEP] out. Again, EVERYBODY panicked and [BLEEP] the bed after ETN's fumble. Doug's decision making, the conservativism with the play calling, the lack of willingness to put the football MORE in your QB's hands in the 2nd half, that reeks of playing scared. That reeks of mental constipation. 

It's Wednesday. I promised myself I would move on from this game today. I am sticking to that. I said my peace. Time to move onto the next one. Hopefully they adjust and make it right against the Browns. You had some good looking plays with Davis and BTJ last Sunday. Exploit that more. 

Lastly, tell Engram and Kirk to catch the football and tell the mystery man at the play calling position to have some [BLEEP] balls when the game is close and let the QB you just paid $55M per year moving forward do his thing when we need big plays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecgZH_XDhTI

Cut to 52:50 for a quick Jaguars snippet. This is what I said a few days ago. No lay ups for Trevor were schemed up.
(09-11-2024, 09:26 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecgZH_XDhTI

Cut to 52:50 for a quick Jaguars snippet. This is what I said a few days ago. No lay ups for Trevor were schemed up.

It was extremely boom or bust, predicated on a lot of run first philosophy on 1st and long situations. Once Miami started tightening up their running lanes, staying disciplined, etc. A lot of that run first philosophy on 1st and long situations started drying up. 

To put it simple, they didn't adjust fast enough, if, at all. There was evidence in that game to support that the running game was not going to be reliable in the majority of the shortest down and distances on 2nd and 3rd downs. As soon as Miami started sniffing out the run and limiting it on 1st downs to 1 - 3 yards?

That's when the play caller needed to adjust to start getting the passes back into the mix, to start getting the defense backing up more and on it's heels. Nobody wants to hear that part though. 

It's too easy to get caught up on that fumble. It's the NFL. That's going to happen from time to time. This team has done that so much over the last two years that they should be better prepared for it mentally from the personnel out on the field to the staff on the sidelines calling the plays. 

We should not be having this conversation again for the third straight year in a row.
(09-10-2024, 11:56 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2024, 10:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The chart yesterday was some rando Tweet of some vaguely named stat about "neutral passing" that you likely never heard of either.

As for this chart, as I showed earlier, the early down runs after the fumble worked fine (except the last drive when the "drive starter" failed), once again this team couldn't run for the 1 yard conversion, and had Lawrence thrown the ball on 3rd or 4th an 1 you two would be losing your [BLEEP] over the play call then too. Never mind that he threw a perfect pass on 3rd and 5 that Kirk dropped. And you two looking at this chart and see the 49rs and Jags in the same place on it should really give you some pause about what they were doing in the second half. The game plan took them to the 2 yard line for a 3 score lead with 4 minutes left in the 3rd. The only thing that went wrong was that ETN didn't score. Had he done so there's no Hill 80 yarder and it's likely that their defense deflates and the Jags walk out with a win. Frankly if we're in that situation 10 times 9 of them end up a Jags win, and if I had to bet $10k on the Jags to win starting over from that ETN carry I'd do it every time. [BLEEP] happens, it's how the ball bounces sometimes and the Jags [BLEEP] the bed this time around.

The 49ers beat the Jets 32-19, had a 26-7 lead in the middle of the third quarter, and they scored 16pts in the 2nd half.  There's nothing wrong with burning clock by running.  

The issue is that the Jags didn't adjust once their lead dwindled to 3 points. Their next offensive drive Pederson made an insane call to go for it on fourth deep in their own territory - running it (unsuccessfully) 4 times in a row.  The criticism is that they didn't let Trevor Lawrence take the game over on that drive.
Exactly
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_rH-0ayL...YXp2ejlmZA==

They should have kept letting BTJ cook him.

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You know, the one thing I don't think I've seen anyone mention is the drops by Kirk... Dude let us down on 2 occasions that could have kept drives going. Kirk needs to step up against Cleveland, or it might be time to cut bait.

Quick Edit: I'm sure some have called out Kirk. I'm just saying there isn't a major thread calling out the bad play of Kirk on Sunday,
(09-12-2024, 04:56 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]You know, the one thing I don't think I've seen anyone mention is the drops by Kirk...  Dude let us down on 2 occasions that could have kept drives going.  Kirk needs to step up against Cleveland, or it might be time to cut bait.

Quick Edit:  I'm sure some have called out Kirk.  I'm just saying there isn't a major thread calling out the bad play of Kirk on Sunday,

It was his first game in nealy 9 months, he'll be fine.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_t1DQYtb...NjYxdjRjdw==

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