Quote:Here's the thing though. As you said, it's perceived by (some) in the black community that blacks are treated differently by police, and in some cases that might be correct. However, police brutality and excessive use of force is really not the major problem. Yes it happens, but it's done by a far minority of police officers.
Perhaps the real problem is the culture that many blacks, especially in urban areas are raised in. A vast number of them are taught that whites, police or any authority figure is "against them". They are taught that they shouldn't "snitch" when police are conducting an investigation. They are taught that police are "pigs". Take a listen to some of the rap lyrics that are popular among young black people.
What about the black-on-black crimes that happen on a daily basis?` How about the fact that there are higher numbers of children, particularly black children being raised in single parent homes? Could the disproportionate sentencing be because the percentage of blacks committing crime is higher in certain communities?
Now of course, I'm not talking about ALL black people,.but when looking at some of the ones involved in these past incidents there seems to be several common denominators including a history of violence, drug abuse and prior convictions.
I know that I'm going to be accused of being racist or a bigot, but I don't really care. This is the real problem that needs to be discussed quite openly and frankly.
You admit it's done by the far minority of cops. A few posts ago you vehemently claimed BLM is a terrorist group due to a minority of people using it's name. I'm not sure what is worse, your blatant hypocrisy or your inability to even attempt to wrap your head around another groups plight due to your deep seeded bias and personal world view.
Nothing you said after that has anything to do with what you asked me and what I said to you. You changed the subject because the only response you could muster is "that's not a problem" That's your game, troll or move the goal posts.
It's always funny when people go, "now I'm not rascist" or "people might think I'm being racist". gimme a break.
Quote:Thank you. That's pretty much what I'm saying too. The problem isn't with the police.
Just to be clear you think it's not a problem when people sworn to protect and serve do the exact opposite. That because there are other problems YOU think are bigger that it makes police brutality not a problem. Don't dance around it. If you feel so strongly just say it. Say those bold things you claim people need to hear.
Quote:Some people just have it in their head that there are people out to get them. Or perhaps, they just don't look at the facts. I really wish there was a way to get those people to understand or see it. The events that are going on are sickening to see. I'm not really sure what the anti-cop group expects to resolve with the violence. If anything, it'll have the opposite affect they are seeking. Who knows, maybe they want a race war, idk.
I find it funny on the football threads everyone is so quick to say "he was found innocent by a jury, therefore no crime". Yet, officers are being acquitted of their charges and a lot of people (whether on this board or not, don't want a witch hunt asking me to name names) are upset that justice wasn't served. Which reminds me of when Megyn Kelley made two people look like fools on day 1 of the convention. During one of the interviews they break to show that black sheriff's speech. Right off the bat, he references the shootings they were talking about and praising the acquittal.
We talking about cops, muslims, or who?
Quote:You admit it's done by the far minority of cops. A few posts ago you vehemently claimed BLM is a terrorist group due to a minority of people using it's name. I'm not sure what is worse, your blatant hypocrisy or your inability to even attempt to wrap your head around another groups plight due to your deep seeded bias and personal world view.
Nothing you said after that has anything to do with what you asked me and what I said to you. You changed the subject because the only response you could muster is "that's not a problem" That's your game, troll or move the goal posts.
It's always funny when people go, "now I'm not rascist" or "people might think I'm being racist". gimme a break.
You were trying to "explain" to me what the BLM movement is all about. I pointed out that the cause of the problem isn't the "plight" of black people being targeted by police. Yes I do believe that the majority of the BLM movement is a terrorist organization, much like the Black Panthers. Is everyone involved a terrorist? Of course not. There are probably some that have legitimate concerns and a legitimate cause. But when you have so-called "leaders" of an organization calling for violence, then it is clearly a terrorist organization. When you have these organizations protesting in a way that causes riots and chaos (Ferguson) then it's a problem.
As far as how I worded my comment, I'm trying to be clear that I want to have a real, rational and quite frank discussion about what the real problem is. Liberals like you run away from such discussion. If someone like me brings up a talking point that seems like it's aimed at some particular group (in this case blacks) they are labeled as racist or a bigot. That's certainly not the case for me. I'm willing to have an open, honest frank discussion about the real issues.
Liberals like you run away with the labels, in this case calling me a troll.
Quote:Just to be clear you think it's not a problem when people sworn to protect and serve do the exact opposite. That because there are other problems YOU think are bigger that it makes police brutality not a problem. Don't dance around it. If you feel so strongly just say it. Say those bold things you claim people need to hear.
Just to be clear. The number of police that are "bad" is very small. Because YOU think that it's such a huge problem when there are worse problems that need to addressed that's the number one priority?
Quote:We talking about cops, muslims, or who?
Did you bother reading the post that you responded to? I think that he was talking about the "anti-cop" group that I'm sure that you are a member of.
Quote:Just to be clear. The number of police that are "bad" is very small. Because YOU think that it's such a huge problem when there are worse problems that need to addressed that's the number one priority?
i'd say you danced around it but you just avoided the entire question I asked you. Shocking. i have not once said how big I think the problem is, in fact, that is entirely irrelevant to the conversation. A problem is a problem regardless how big or small. Clearly, you like to balance what are big and small problems to regardless of how they effect other people and if they don't effect you are no longer problems.
It's ok to just be honest with what you mean. You know, give us some of those hard truth's you think you have.
Are you saying it is not a problem? Are you saying the problem does not matter because there are bigger problems to you.
Quote:Did you bother reading the post that you responded to? I think that he was talking about the "anti-cop" group that I'm sure that you are a member of.
When one knows that they are defeated, there are two paths to choose from. The honorable man admits his error and moves on. The coward proclaims that all who disagree with him are gay, transgender (I haven't forgotten about that, by the way) or terrorists.
You are one of a kind, Jiblet. Don't ever change. The world needs people like you to remind us of who we should not be.
Quote:Did you bother reading the post that you responded to? I think that he was talking about the "anti-cop" group that I'm sure that you are a member of.
As usual you can't pick up on sarcasm.
Quote:You were trying to "explain" to me what the BLM movement is all about. I pointed out that the cause of the problem isn't the "plight" of black people being targeted by police. Yes I do believe that the majority of the BLM movement is a terrorist organization, much like the Black Panthers. Is everyone involved a terrorist? Of course not. There are probably some that have legitimate concerns and a legitimate cause. But when you have so-called "leaders" of an organization calling for violence, then it is clearly a terrorist organization. When you have these organizations protesting in a way that causes riots and chaos (Ferguson) then it's a problem.
As far as how I worded my comment, I'm trying to be clear that I want to have a real, rational and quite frank discussion about what the real problem is. Liberals like you run away from such discussion. If someone like me brings up a talking point that seems like it's aimed at some particular group (in this case blacks) they are labeled as racist or a bigot. That's certainly not the case for me. I'm willing to have an open, honest frank discussion about the real issues.
Liberals like you run away with the labels, in this case calling me a troll.
The discussion we were having was not about other problems, like black on black crime, it was specifically about BLM and police brutality. Those are separate problems that those in BLM have admitted over and over again are a struggle for their community. As usual it's another thing you do not care to hear because it does not fit with your narrative you have built for yourself. You know that but you are playing dumb because you have no response for it. Instead you attempted to change the subject to a completely different issue. Guess what that's called? Running away from the discussion.
Quote:Just to be clear you think it's not a problem when people sworn to protect and serve do the exact opposite. That because there are other problems YOU think are bigger that it makes police brutality not a problem. Don't dance around it. If you feel so strongly just say it. Say those bold things you claim people need to hear.
I realize you're talking to JIB but I want to chime in on this post. I think in this thread and the other related threads it's been pretty much unanimous that the few officers out there that abuse their powers and murder are scum and should rot in hell. Just like any other murderer. No race barrier.
You bring up police brutality. Ok, so BLM are out to let the world know how black people are getting unfair treatment by police. Do you not realize that whites and Hispanics also are victims of "brutality". I put brutality in quotes because it seems all to frequent that the public is now deciding what is brutality. Police, you see, deal with a wide array of people and criminals. Some black some white, some men, some women. Some 6'3" 250 lbs some 5'3" 100 lbs. some young strong and aggressive. Idk if you've realized this but officers too come in all shapes and sizes as well along with different genders and races. Police are also trained to deal with uncompliant people. You see, sometimes it is difficult for an officer to restrain and cuff someone. Which is why they may use some taught skills to bring down the criminal or heck, maybe it's just a traffic stop and the person is pissed off and won't accept the ticket. So, is it police brutality when an officer uses these tactics to bring down a white, black, or Hispanic person? I don't believe so. If you do, then you should also feel that it is for all races.
I'm sure the reply will be singling out an example of one officer and applying it to all, I mean, the white officers.
Quote:I'm sure the reply will be singling out an example of one officer and applying it to all, I mean, the white officers.
I won't reply with that, because you make a valid point and one I agree with. Five bullets into a man on the ground is five bullets into a man in the ground. One of my biggest problems with the BLM movement is that they only care when those five bullets go into a black man.
Quote:I realize you're talking to JIB but I want to chime in on this post. I think in this thread and the other related threads it's been pretty much unanimous that the few officers out there that abuse their powers and murder are scum and should rot in hell. Just like any other murderer. No race barrier.
You bring up police brutality. Ok, so BLM are out to let the world know how black people are getting unfair treatment by police. Do you not realize that whites and Hispanics also are victims of "brutality". I put brutality in quotes because it seems all to frequent that the public is now deciding what is brutality. Police, you see, deal with a wide array of people and criminals. Some black some white, some men, some women. Some 6'3" 250 lbs some 5'3" 100 lbs. some young strong and aggressive. Idk if you've realized this but officers too come in all shapes and sizes as well along with different genders and races. Police are also trained to deal with uncompliant people. You see, sometimes it is difficult for an officer to restrain and cuff someone. Which is why they may use some taught skills to bring down the criminal or heck, maybe it's just a traffic stop and the person is [BAD WORD REMOVED] off and won't accept the ticket. So, is it police brutality when an officer uses these tactics to bring down a white, black, or Hispanic person? I don't believe so. If you do, then you should also feel that it is for all races.
I'm sure the reply will be singling out an example of one officer and applying it to all, I mean, the white officers.
You sure seem to want to put a lot of words onto my mouth. Things I have not said and do not think.
Condescending tone of your post aside, I'm not sure what you are getting at nor what the point of this is other than to come to his aid.
JIB is claiming BLM is a terrorist group and I jumped in to talk about that specifically. Hence why I am talking BLM.
One more time for everyone. There is no invisible nor implied "only" in front of black lives matter. People sure seem to get defensive as if that is the case.
Abuse of police powers is always wrong regardless of who is the officer or who is the target of the abuse.
Quote:I won't reply with that, because you make a valid point and one I agree with. Five bullets into a man on the ground is five bullets into a man in the ground. One of my biggest problems with the BLM movement is that they only care when those five bullets go into a black man.
I don't disagree. I do also think BLM has its purpose in the black commubity even if I don't agree with all their tactics. As a side effect it has raised awareness of the problems in the PDs around the country regardless of who the abuse is targeting. I'd say that is a good thing.
Quote:You sure seem to want to put a lot of words onto my mouth. Things I have not said and do not think.
Condescending tone of your post aside, I'm not sure what you are getting at nor what the point of this is other than to come to his aid.
JIB is claiming BLM is a terrorist group and I jumped in to talk about that specifically. Hence why I am talking BLM.
One more time for everyone. There is no invisible nor implied "only" in front of black lives matter. People sure seem to get defensive as if that is the case.
Abuse of police powers is always wrong regardless of who is the officer or who is the target of the abuse.
I'm sorry if you feel I was putting words in your mouth.
As far as my tone, well, it comes out how it comes out. I won't lie, I've been called an [BLEEP] many times. Perhaps that's the reason for the tone.
I'm not trying to come to the aid of anyone except the men and woman, black, white, Hispanic, Asian or whatever that protect our streets day and night. Those who respond to calls be it burglary, shooting, armed robbery, domestic dispute or even an ambush.
As far as him believing BLM is a terrorist group, I tend to agree.
I will agree with you on your last sentence.
Quote:I'm sorry if you feel I was putting words in your mouth.
As far as my tone, well, it comes out how it comes out. I won't lie, I've been called an [BAD WORD REMOVED] many times. Perhaps that's the reason for the tone.
I'm not trying to come to the aid of anyone except the men and woman, black, white, Hispanic, Asian or whatever that protect our streets day and night. Those who respond to calls be it burglary, shooting, armed robbery, domestic dispute or even an ambush.
As far as him believing BLM is a terrorist group, I tend to agree.
I will agree with you on your last sentence.
What is there to defend? At no point have I said cops are a problem.
I have yet see anyone explain how BLM is a terrorist organization other than a couple of rogue people using the name. If that is all it takes to label something a terrorist organization then it would be hypocritical to not label the police a terrorist organization. Sounds pretty dumb though doesn't it?
Quote:What is there to defend? At no point have I said cops are a problem.
I have yet see anyone explain how BLM is a terrorist organization other than a couple of rogue people using the name. If that is all it takes to label something a terrorist organization then it would be hypocritical to not label the police a terrorist organization. Sounds pretty dumb though doesn't it?
Don't get me wrong, I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I can understand why you feel that it's similar. Just as you won't convince me, I will not convince you either. Between this and other threads, it's hard for me to remember who said what. Who's blaming cops and who's fighting the BLM cause. So, if you don't blame the police, then that is my mistake in lumping you in with those others who are.
To be quite honest, I'm tired of hearing about it on the news. Reading these threads lately has gotten a lot of users on this board, including myself, all heated up. Whether I chime in or not or wether others chime in or not. I've got family members that are in LE. So I take offense to some of the things I'm seeing On the news and reading on these threads. These topics are slowly dividing our country and dividing the MB as well. Obviously, the divide in the country is a much larger and more important issue than a silly MB. I bring up the MB because it got me thinking how we all came here and united together to discuss a football team we all are fans of. And I'm seeing in other unrelated threads the divide that these topics have caused. It's freaking ridiculous the tension that it's causing. One thing is certain, it needs to come to a stop. I know I'm tired of hearing about it. We've got terrorists killing around the world and in our country. It's a matter of time before we have another 9/11 type attack on our soil again. Not like it's any better if it were elsewhere. We've got probably the most important election in our country's history in a few months, and we can't even get along with ourselves??? While BLM is worried about an officer doing his job, ISIS is planning more and more attacks on us and everyone else. And they're eating it up that we as a nation can't even get along with ourselves.
Quote:Don't get me wrong, I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I can understand why you feel that it's similar. Just as you won't convince me, I will not convince you either. Between this and other threads, it's hard for me to remember who said what. Who's blaming cops and who's fighting the BLM cause. So, if you don't blame the police, then that is my mistake in lumping you in with those others who are.
To be quite honest, I'm tired of hearing about it on the news. Reading these threads lately has gotten a lot of users on this board, including myself, all heated up. Whether I chime in or not or wether others chime in or not. I've got family members that are in LE. So I take offense to some of the things I'm seeing On the news and reading on these threads. These topics are slowly dividing our country and dividing the MB as well. Obviously, the divide in the country is a much larger and more important issue than a silly MB. I bring up the MB because it got me thinking how we all came here and united together to discuss a football team we all are fans of. And I'm seeing in other unrelated threads the divide that these topics have caused. It's freaking ridiculous the tension that it's causing. One thing is certain, it needs to come to a stop. I know I'm tired of hearing about it. We've got terrorists killing around the world and in our country. It's a matter of time before we have another 9/11 type attack on our soil again. Not like it's any better if it were elsewhere. We've got probably the most important election in our country's history in a few months, and we can't even get along with ourselves??? While BLM is worried about an officer doing his job, ISIS is planning more and more attacks on us and everyone else. And they're eating it up that we as a nation can't even get along with ourselves.
I don't really disagree with you. There is a great divide and a microcosm of that exists on this board. Really though, it's always going to be that way especially when views are so drastically different from each other. It's ok to argue and disagree with each, I'd even argue that is one of the greatest things about America. That we can do that and no one can stop us. In the end we are all in this together and I think said form the extremists everyone knows and feels that way.
I also don't think you can't try to address what some see as minor problems just because larger ones exist. Problems don't go away just because greater ones exist. I mean it's not like civil rights wernt being talked about and the problem attempting to he addressed just because Nazis were wrecking the world and committing atrocities for example. We are a great nation and we can do great things. No reason we can't address multiple issues at once.
Quote:Don't get me wrong, I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I can understand why you feel that it's similar. Just as you won't convince me, I will not convince you either. Between this and other threads, it's hard for me to remember who said what. Who's blaming cops and who's fighting the BLM cause. So, if you don't blame the police, then that is my mistake in lumping you in with those others who are.
To be quite honest, I'm tired of hearing about it on the news. Reading these threads lately has gotten a lot of users on this board, including myself, all heated up. Whether I chime in or not or wether others chime in or not. I've got family members that are in LE. So I take offense to some of the things I'm seeing On the news and reading on these threads. These topics are slowly dividing our country and dividing the MB as well. Obviously, the divide in the country is a much larger and more important issue than a silly MB. I bring up the MB because it got me thinking how we all came here and united together to discuss a football team we all are fans of. And I'm seeing in other unrelated threads the divide that these topics have caused. It's freaking ridiculous the tension that it's causing. One thing is certain, it needs to come to a stop. I know I'm tired of hearing about it. We've got terrorists killing around the world and in our country. It's a matter of time before we have another 9/11 type attack on our soil again. Not like it's any better if it were elsewhere. We've got probably the most important election in our country's history in a few months, and we can't even get along with ourselves??? While BLM is worried about an officer doing his job, ISIS is planning more and more attacks on us and everyone else. And they're eating it up that we as a nation can't even get along with ourselves.
I agree with your whole post. Regarding the part in bold, I don't think that it's the topics that divide our country, it's the failure to address and discuss said topics in an honest and meaningful way. It's hard to come out and say some things because sometimes it needs to be said, but can be considered "rude" or "non-PC". When people don't agree one of the first defenses is to label the person speaking as "racist" or a "bigot" or a "homophobe", etc.
As far as the so-called "divide" on the MB I can only speak for myself. I personally have pretty thick skin and have been called much worse by much lesser people than what some on this board have thrown my way. Even though I disagree with several of the posters that regularly participate on this forum, I still respect them and their points-of-view. I would gladly tailgate or share a meal with any of them in person (even RJ, TJ or TAM) :thumbsup: .
Politics can be a tough issue to discuss whether it's related to law enforcement, racial issues, social issues, etc. People (myself included) sometimes get too emotionally involved. At the end of the day we are all in this together. What our country is really lacking right now is strong, tough leadership.
Quote:I won't reply with that, because you make a valid point and one I agree with. Five bullets into a man on the ground is five bullets into a man in the ground. One of my biggest problems with the BLM movement is that they only care when those five bullets go into a black man.
Not sure you can see the file but here is an instance where they are coming to aid of someone who is not black.