Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

The skin is getting real thin on this board.

Quote:Oh, now we are judging.

You don't site your sources. That you certainly have proven. Guess you don't need credibility to be a "mod"

 

Thanks for proving me right about you not caring about the truth, since it doesn't fit your flaccid agenda.

 

Since you seem to need special attention, I'll give you a pass this time as everyone learns at a different pace and you seem to be exceptionally slow.

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nfl+lose+money+london

Thanks Professor! BTW was hoping this was the article you would post.


"That's going to change quickly, Waller said. By continuing to play games in London -- and making them free to watch via the BBC -- the NFL has succeeded in slowly building a fan base. Half of the fans who went to a game at Wembley last year had been to a previous football game, and one-third bought tickets to the full series.

With enough fans, Waller said, "media values go up, your sponsor values go up and the commercial side of the arrangement reaches scale." As it is, the price of the U.K. media rights for the NFL has already doubled since the New York Giants beat the Miami Dolphins at Wembley in 2007, and Waller said they will be more valuable when they come up for bid again. The BBC owns the rights to the London games and the Super Bowl for the next two years; Sky Sports will air the NFL's U.S. games in the U.K. through 2019."


I am still waiting how a FUTURE permanent NFL team won't be profitable in London.

There's just too many barriers, I'm not sure about whether it would lose money or not but even look at something simple like signing free agents.


Imagine how much a team in London would have to over pay a free agent to play over there.

Quote:Thanks Professor! BTW was hoping this was the article you would post.


"That's going to change quickly, Waller said. By continuing to play games in London -- and making them free to watch via the BBC -- the NFL has succeeded in slowly building a fan base. Half of the fans who went to a game at Wembley last year had been to a previous football game, and one-third bought tickets to the full series.

With enough fans, Waller said, "media values go up, your sponsor values go up and the commercial side of the arrangement reaches scale." As it is, the price of the U.K. media rights for the NFL has already doubled since the New York Giants beat the Miami Dolphins at Wembley in 2007, and Waller said they will be more valuable when they come up for bid again. The BBC owns the rights to the London games and the Super Bowl for the next two years; Sky Sports will air the NFL's U.S. games in the U.K. through 2019."


I am still waiting how a FUTURE permanent NFL team won't be profitable in London.

 

Ah... so you are as dull as I expected you were.  Again, pie in the sky and dreaming of unrealized revenue.  If you're going to dream, dream a big dream I suppose.

 

Quote:There's just too many barriers, I'm not sure about whether it would lose money or not but even look at something simple like signing free agents.


Imagine how much a team in London would have to over pay a free agent to play over there.

 

Some aren't capable of thinking that deeply.

Quote:Ah... so you are as dull as I expected you were.  Again, pie in the sky and dreaming of unrealized revenue.  If you're going to dream, dream a big dream I suppose.

 

 

Some aren't capable of thinking that deeply.

"Tickets sell for around $130 on average, compared to $86 in the U.S., and with more than 80,000 seats, Wembley is 25 percent bigger than most NFL stadiums. Last year, gate revenue averaged more than $10 million. For the Jaguars, who have a multi-year deal to play in London, the Wembley games are far more lucrative than their own games in Florida, where they average 61,000 fans at much lower ticket prices." They are already revenue positive for us.

 

"The league also pays to rent Wembley Arena and training facilities for each team for the duration of their stays. It also covers the cost of promotion and events that go on for days -- costs that would, in the U.S., be born by the local franchise." Khan just fixed that cost didn't he?

 

“If we continue on the path we are on, there will be no discussion about when the games break even,” said Waller, an Englishman. “If we were to double our media rights again, we would more than break even.” As quoted above, they doubled from 2007.

 

There are hurdles, but they are not as big as you think. In 2018, the TV deals get renegotiated again. They have sold out every game, 2/3rds to repeat customers. The NFL lost money just cause it was renting before and trying out the market. London is/will be a real threat for relocation, we should secure our situation before it comes to that. I am not sure why anyone would have a problem with that.

 

Edit: Expensive as it is, London is still one of the five most successful host cities including U.S. markets, according to the league.

“If you are in one of the top five markets it’s a pretty good bet that the core of the proposition is sound,” Waller said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...lose-money

The real issue is novelty. We're up to 3 annual games now, lets see if these numbers start to level off.

Quote:The real issue is novelty. We're up to 3 annual games now, lets see if these numbers start to level off.

 

Precisely.  There aren't economies of scale to gain with a maximum of eight possible games (ten if they bother with preseason in London.)  It's not likely to sell them all out as they do with less than half that amount of games (keeping in mind even today's sellouts are losing money.)  As it is today, anything less than a sellout to any game is a loss of more money.  You still have variable costs to cover for each game day production (including things like transportation and rent) that aren't going to decrease with more games.  With today's model, even adding more sellouts = adding more losses.  Simple math.

 

That's also pretending that the massive logistical problems simply aren't there or could be wished away with a flick of Harry Potter's wand.  A London team can't play a full season of games (8-10 away) and fit a "normal" NFL schedule.  There aren't enough weeks in the season for London to get a bye for every week they travel to the states.  If they "batch" their states games, then that creates an unfair advantage/disadvantage of long stretches of home/away (the most efficient yet most unrealistic would mean half home half away schedule,) and creates the need for a London team "base" facility in the states anytime they have away games back to back.

 

The purpose of adding games (there will be four) is to see if these logistics can be improved and continue to try to grow their market.  They will soon see where their ticket saturation is (anything less than a sellout would not be a good sign at all.)  If the market can't support four games, they certainly wouldn't make any sense to double that number.

 

Brexit is happening, economic change is happening in the region.  London serves NFL fans throughout Europe (many are those who likely supported NFL Europe/Europa that didn't work, either.)  There are a lot of assumptions and theories that have yet to prove out that can't be relied upon or taken for granted as some are choosing to.  It's mostly just wishful thinking a marketer or salesman would pitch, without having anything at all locked in or even likely to come.

The reality no one in London is crying for a NFL team to move there.

Survey, Please answer to appease my curiosity.

 

1. Have you attended a game in London?

 

2. What country do you live in?

 

Edit- Me

1.No

2. U.S.

I went to the 2013 game, live in Germany but I am American and coming home this fall, my old section was 103 in the stadium

Quote: (many are those who likely supported NFL Europe/Europa that didn't work, either.) 

NFL Europe failed for reasons entirely different to any obstacles currently faced by the International Series or that would be faced by a possible London franchise. 

Quote:Survey, Please answer to appease my curiosity.

 

1. Have you attended a game in London? <span style="font-size:14px;">NO</span>

 

2. What country do you live in?  <span style="font-size:14px;">MERICA</span>

Quote:The real issue is novelty. We're up to 3 annual games now, lets see if these numbers start to level off.

 

LOL ..... imagine them paying for 2 preseason game.  What do you bloody mean these game don't count????

Quote:Survey, Please answer to appease my curiosity.

 

1. Have you attended a game in London?

 

2. What country do you live in?

 

1. Most years.

 

2. UK. And yes, I am in fact sipping tea.

Quote:But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, part of the "rabid" popularity of NFL football in London is the fact that it's a novelty.  If a team landed there permanently, that new car smell would go away very quickly, and if the team struggled, Londoners would most likely go back to the football they actually prefer.  The die hard population of NFL or even Jaguar fans isn't as embedded as some want to believe.

 

That's not my experience at all. The rabid fanbase is there in the UK. Most of the people turning up to the games in Wembley aren't doing it for the novelty value. They're doing it because they're hardcore fans of the sport. In some ways, the UK fanbase is more hardcore than the US fanbase. Because there are very few people who are fans of the sport by default - these are people who love a sport that at times they could only follow by tuning in to armed forces radio. It's not a new thing for these fans - just look at the number of throwback jerseys you see out there at Wembley. These are people who love their sport, and love their team, and in many cases have been supporting that team for decades.

 

Which is the real problem here - the hardcore fanbase in the UK is a hardcore fanbase that supports teams already, and is used to supporting them at a distance. They're not going to turn around and support a different team just because the league sticks one in London. Especially not if it's a struggling, low profile team that moves. I know the same's true to some extent of teams moving to new locations in the US, but I suspect it would be more extreme over here.

Quote:Survey, Please answer to appease my curiosity.

 

1. Have you attended a game in London?

 

2. What country do you live in?

 

1. Yes

2. U.S.

Quote:Survey, Please answer to appease my curiosity.

 

1. Have you attended a game in London?   YES

 

2. What country do you live in?  USA

 

 

#deletethisstupidthread

[quote name="Jagwired" post="990767" timestamp="1490903113"]

Survey, Please answer to appease my curiosity.

1. Have you attended a game in London? Yes

2. What country do you live in? U.S.