Quote:This was something that came to my mind. Jaqen told the Waif she could kill Arya but not make her suffer. So Jaqen puts on Arya's face and strolls around like there's nothing wrong and the Waif finds her and stabs her. It a test for the Waif, not Arya. Arya wouldn't be that clueless and as you said, where was Needle? Jaqen didn't know about Needle so he wouldn't have been able to somehow have a similar sword or at least the illusion of one.
In the end the Waif failed the test. It will be interesting to see what the punishment will be and what all of this means for Arya.
I like the twist of this but if I am not mistaken the Faceless Men get their faces from the dead. That would not be good news for Arya.
Quote:I knew what you meant, RJ...I wasn't directing my commentary at you (or anyone else really). I was just stating how I feel about Cersei as a character. 
Oh, yeah, I got that.
Quote:I don't think it's so much that she screwed up as she overestimated the North's support for her cause. She knows she can't trust Littlefinger and she knows Robin is his thrall. She hedged her bets on being able to garner enough support to retake Winterfell without the Knights of the Vale and lost. In the end, she and everyone else knows that Littlefinger doesn't do anything unless it directly benefits him (unlike my man Varys, to whom he's often compared, who balances his self interest with some greater albeit unspecified purpose...I don't completely buy his "for the good of the realm" angle although I think there's some truth in the statement). Neither she nor Jon are duplicitous enough to be able to spot his treachery...although I feel that task will fall to Davos.
I say she screwed up because she should have told Jon to begin with. I think people are really underestimating Peter's love for Sansa. Weather it's just because he loved Catylin or now loves her I do not know but I believe it's real. I think this is exemplified by Peter telling her about the Blackfish retaking Riverrun. I also don't think he truly knew about Ramsey. He was honest with her and I think he really wants to help her. With anything not involving Sansa he is all about himself.
Quote:I like the twist of this but if I am not mistaken the Faceless Men get their faces from the dead. That would not be good news for Arya.
I'd say this is mostly true, and while I don't really believe it was Jaqen posing as Arya (what if the Waif had made it a quick death? Would Jaqen risk that?), I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. Jaqen has made reference (at least in the books, I don't remember if it was in the show) to the Red God, and, in the books, we've seen Melisandre use magic or glamor to make Mance appear as Rattleshirt and vice versa. There has to be at least some magic or glamor involved with changing your appearance as they do, so it wouldn't be a surprise if he's capable of it as well, at least for a short amount of time.
As I understood it, the Faceless Men can't/don't change their physical stature. I think Jaqen as Arya is a tough sell.
As I understood it, the Faceless Men can't/don't change their physical stature. I think Jaqen as Arya is a tough sell.
Quote:As I understood it, the Faceless Men can't/don't change their physical stature. I think Jaqen as Arya is a tough sell.
I wonder though if Jaqen is really who we think he is. In the books, the guy in the House of Black and White is only referred to as the kindly man and Arya doesn't seem to recognize him. Maybe Jaqen is dead. I dunno though, the show doesn't tend to go out on tangents nearly as much as the books do.
Quote:I'd say this is mostly true, and while I don't really believe it was Jaqen posing as Arya (what if the Waif had made it a quick death? Would Jaqen risk that?), I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. Jaqen has made reference (at least in the books, I don't remember if it was in the show) to the Red God,
and, in the books, we've seen Melisandre use magic or glamor to make Mance appear as Rattleshirt and vice versa. There has to be at least some magic or glamor involved with changing your appearance as they do, so it wouldn't be a surprise if he's capable of it as well, at least for a short amount of time.
Good point. I was wondering what the alliance is between the Faceless Men/House of White and Black and the Red God. It really looks to me like the Faceless Men are mostly a guild of assassins with a very loose grasp onto religion. How else can you explain that anyone with gold can have someone killed?
Quote:I wonder though if Jaqen is really who we think he is. In the books, the guy in the House of Black and White is only referred to as the kindly man and Arya doesn't seem to recognize him. Maybe Jaqen is dead. I dunno though, the show doesn't tend to go out on tangents nearly as much as the books do.
Jaqen in the books is in Oldtown, disguised as Pate.
Quote:Good point. I was wondering what the alliance is between the Faceless Men/House of White and Black and the Red God. It really looks to me like the Faceless Men are mostly a guild of assassins with a very loose grasp onto religion. How else can you explain that anyone with gold can have someone killed?
They consider themselves to be tied to most, if not all religions. For example, he is considered to be The Stranger in The Faith of the Seven. How religious or faithful they are I guess is open to interpretation, the first Faceless Man did kill the people that wanted to end their suffering, but when they turned into assassins for hire I don't think has really been addressed.
As far as The Hound. I Know fans are screaming for The Clegane bowl. I am curious to see how that could happen in the current story. If Cersei is fixing to go on a rampage with the Mountain in the next episode. Yet, Sandor is hacking away at the Brotherhood near his location. How does he cover so much ground to King's Landing? Just interesting to see how that plays out. I am thinking that he may stumble across Brianne and Podrick instead. After they leave Riverrun it's possible they exchange paths. So I wonder if The Hound will take it to Brianne this time and maybe best her or make her yield? And maybe turn back and help Jon and Company? I just find it difficult in him making it all the way back to King's Landing without being interrupted.
There is also a really cool theory going around about Arya because of her naive actions and even her stance and walk. People believe it's actually Jaqen using her face to test the Waif. And how would Arya have two full sacks of gold to book her sail back to Westeros? Now, you can argue that she's trained in being a stealth like thief and killer. So maybe she pick pocketed her money to do so. But I agree. For the most part, think about Arya's character. Ever since her father's death, she's been sneaking around, laying low, surviving off the land the hard way. She's been cunning and good at keeping her intentions to herself for the most part. She trusted The Hound to an extent as well prior to his falling in the show and in the books.
So why would she break character there and have a major lapse in style and training? Makes no sense. Also, someone pointed out that when she helped that actress lady that she asked her how she did the "fake blood" bit. She used sacks of pig's blood. So it's possible maybe Arya placed some pig's blood around her to give off the illusion that she was injured. She's trained and fought with the Waif. She could have anticipated those cruel shanks to the gut.
So that's what I am thinking. Someone also pointed out that Arya could have swapped faces with someone and that in the next preview when you see someone running and jumping off a ledge in Bravos that it's not Arya but actually the Waif running from maybe Jaqen. She broke her character as well and pursued Arya out of spite and jealousy. In other words, selfish ambitions. Thus no longer being "No One" but "Some One". It's getting good though man. This season has been amazing so far.
Also interested to see what happens with the Hound. It seems like he doesn't really have anywhere to go... He left Kings Landing, the Brothers without Banners want him dead, doubt he joins Team North with Brienne.
I totally want the Hound to beat his Frankenbrother but also don't see how that will happen. Not in this season. I imagine the trial by combat Cersei is going for will happen by the end of the season. As Caldrac pointed out, the Hound is nowhere near them geographically. Anything can happen though. I just hope he doesn't come across Brienne and kill her. I need more Brienne and Tormund scenes because they're just so hilarious in an understated way. The Hound going north and helping Jon and Sansa would be sweet. I don't know how that could be set up but it would be cool.
I don't think Sandor joining Jon and Sansa is as far-fetched as folks might think. If you recall, the Hound had some measure of affinity for Sansa which even she noted (more so in the books but still). If they were to cross paths again, there is a decent chance he could be convinced via her to lend his sword to their cause. Sadly, the likelihood of Cleganebowl is outside the realm of reasonable possibility for now due to proximity (or lack thereof).
What I really want to see is Tormund and Brienne in a fight scene (as a duo). Nothing sparks attraction/love like battling through conflict...and I'm of the mindset that she could outfight him, which of course he'd love.
Food for thought, in the books Catelyn Stark is alive and with The Brotherhood. Sandor Clegan has an odd bond with both the Stark girls. Lots of potential here for possible plot twist.
It would be pretty cool to see a surprise Lady Stoneheart reveal this season. I wouldn't quite rule this out. They technically gave us Coldhands by merging him into Benjen Stark. Would be an interesting situation. That's what I am thinking as a potential story arch.
Sandor Clegane starts his bloody revenge upon the Brotherhood and beats Berric Dondarion yet again in a one-on-one battle. Thoros maybe works his magic yet again. But I still think we have to see what happens with Brianne and Podrick after their attempt at Riverrun with the Blackfish. They may have spoiled it a bit with the preview. It appears that Brianne gets there, she speaks with Jaime, speaks of honor to fight him if he continues the siege. Podrick get's grabbed from behind from Bronn. I think they will talk for awhile and reflect on their past with Tyrion and what not. But I think that falls right into the idea that maybe Bronn and Jaime rigged something for Brianne because it shows them in a boat down river at night time and they're looking back and up at probably the castle which may be under attack.
My idea is that maybe Brianne bumps into the Brotherhood along with the Hound after they settle their business at Riverrun. Because in the books at some point Brianne and Podrick DO get caught up with the Brotherhood and they end up facing Lady Stoneheart and Thoros. Since they're kind of pulling from book four with the Greyjoy story line and Jaime's encounter at Riverrun it's pretty plausible to think they double dip from that book and bring this story into the fold. Maybe this time though Sandor Clegane saves Brianne?
I don't know. Just a thought I guess.
Quote:There is also a really cool theory going around about Arya because of her naive actions and even her stance and walk. People believe it's actually Jaqen using her face to test the Waif. And how would Arya have two full sacks of gold to book her sail back to Westeros? Now, you can argue that she's trained in being a stealth like thief and killer. So maybe she pick pocketed her money to do so. But I agree.
So why would she break character there and have a major lapse in style and training? Makes no sense. Also, someone pointed out that when she helped that actress lady that she asked her how she did the "fake blood" bit. She used sacks of pig's blood. So it's possible maybe Arya placed some pig's blood around her to give off the illusion that she was injured. She's trained and fought with the Waif. She could have anticipated those cruel shanks to the gut.
So that's what I am thinking. Someone also pointed out that Arya could have swapped faces with someone and that in the next preview when you see someone running and jumping off a ledge in Bravos that it's not Arya but actually the Waif running from maybe Jaqen. She broke her character as well and pursued Arya out of spite and jealousy. In other words, selfish ambitions. Thus no longer being "No One" but "Some One". It's getting good though man. This season has been amazing so far.
I'm not buying that one. In the show, it's pretty well established that they can't trade faces with living people. They collect the faces from the dead by physically peeling them off and curing them.
Not to mention, we see a 8" dagger pierce Arya and get twisted in her guts - which would be impossible to predict, plus the Waif first attempted to slice her throat as she walked up. Also, if it wasn't Arya, why would she be walking through the streets hours later bleeding all over herself?
I think it's much more in line with the show that she will be healed by some magic (which we've seen) than to assume the stabbing that we saw happen was some slight of hand trick.
If the Hound can heal up normally from his injuries, Arya should be no sweat.
Quote:As far as The Hound. I Know fans are screaming for The Clegane bowl. I am curious to see how that could happen in the current story. If Cersei is fixing to go on a rampage with the Mountain in the next episode. Yet, Sandor is hacking away at the Brotherhood near his location. How does he cover so much ground to King's Landing? Just interesting to see how that plays out. I am thinking that he may stumble across Brianne and Podrick instead. After they leave Riverrun it's possible they exchange paths. So I wonder if The Hound will take it to Brianne this time and maybe best her or make her yield? And maybe turn back and help Jon and Company? I just find it difficult in him making it all the way back to King's Landing without being interrupted.
There is also a really cool theory going around about Arya because of her naive actions and even her stance and walk. People believe it's actually Jaqen using her face to test the Waif. And how would Arya have two full sacks of gold to book her sail back to Westeros? Now, you can argue that she's trained in being a stealth like thief and killer. So maybe she pick pocketed her money to do so. But I agree. For the most part, think about Arya's character. Ever since her father's death, she's been sneaking around, laying low, surviving off the land the hard way. She's been cunning and good at keeping her intentions to herself for the most part. She trusted The Hound to an extent as well prior to his falling in the show and in the books.
So why would she break character there and have a major lapse in style and training? Makes no sense. Also, someone pointed out that when she helped that actress lady that she asked her how she did the "fake blood" bit. She used sacks of pig's blood. So it's possible maybe Arya placed some pig's blood around her to give off the illusion that she was injured. She's trained and fought with the Waif. She could have anticipated those cruel shanks to the gut.
So that's what I am thinking. Someone also pointed out that Arya could have swapped faces with someone and that in the next preview when you see someone running and jumping off a ledge in Bravos that it's not Arya but actually the Waif running from maybe Jaqen. She broke her character as well and pursued Arya out of spite and jealousy. In other words, selfish ambitions. Thus no longer being "No One" but "Some One". It's getting good though man. This season has been amazing so far.
I have a badly-thought out and probably very incorrect theory that it is Arya who was injured and that she'll end up dying. I think I remember hearing someone say (either show or in the books) that "for a girl to become no one, Arya Stark must die". Or maybe I'm just misremembering it. Would be interesting if the Faceless Men have the ability to raise people from the dead like the Red Priests and Priestesses, but their subjects lose their identity in the process (as well as their faces which maybe get lopped off in the morgue of the House of Black and White) before they're brought back. If that's the case, Arya's face will go into the Hall of Faces, but "a girl" could become Arya anytime she chose.
Quote:I have a badly-thought out and probably very incorrect theory that it is Arya who was injured and that she'll end up dying. I think I remember hearing someone say (either show or in the books) that "for a girl to become no one, Arya Stark must die". Or maybe I'm just misremembering it. Would be interesting if the Faceless Men have the ability to raise people from the dead like the Red Priests and Priestesses, but their subjects lose their identity in the process (as well as their faces which maybe get lopped off in the morgue of the House of Black and White) before they're brought back. If that's the case, Arya's face will go into the Hall of Faces, but "a girl" could become Arya anytime she chose.
Could be right. That sounds brutal. That honestly sounds like one of those things people can point to when they bring that up ol' saying of "There are some things worse than Death". Tyrion reflects on that saying himself in the ADWD book.
Quote:I'm not buying that one. In the show, it's pretty well established that they can't trade faces with living people. They collect the faces from the dead by physically peeling them off and curing them.
Not to mention, we see a 8" dagger pierce Arya and get twisted in her guts - which would be impossible to predict, plus the Waif first attempted to slice her throat as she walked up. Also, if it wasn't Arya, why would she be walking through the streets hours later bleeding all over herself?
I think it's much more in line with the show that she will be healed by some magic (which we've seen) than to assume the stabbing that we saw happen was some slight of hand trick.
If the Hound can heal up normally from his injuries, Arya should be no sweat.
Good points. It just doesn't add up to me. For her to break character that BADLY. After all the cautious behavior and attempts and efforts it took to survive essentially on her own or with a band of kids with no experience like Gendry and Hot Pie. It just bothers me that she would be so foolish and easily taken advantage of or take unawares like that. I still feel like Jaqen sees something in her. And I still think the Waif messed up monumentally by her actions with the dagger. Maybe the Faceless men do have the ability to heal or revive others though.
Quote:I'm not buying that one. In the show, it's pretty well established that they can't trade faces with living people. They collect the faces from the dead by physically peeling them off and curing them.
Not to mention, we see a 8" dagger pierce Arya and get twisted in her guts - which would be impossible to predict, plus the Waif first attempted to slice her throat as she walked up. Also, if it wasn't Arya, why would she be walking through the streets hours later bleeding all over herself?
I think it's much more in line with the show that she will be healed by some magic (which we've seen) than to assume the stabbing that we saw happen was some slight of hand trick.
If the Hound can heal up normally from his injuries, Arya should be no sweat.
But didn't Jaqen appear as the Waif or vice versa earlier in the season? That would mean one one them is dead, right? If they can only use faces of the dead? And didn't Arya appear as the Waif or vice versa at some point as well? This stuff is getting confusing.