Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Ah... Here's our new after loss meltdown .gif for the upcoming season. Is that Everbank Stadium burning in the distance?

 

This will have some good use in political forum as well.

Quote:This will have some good use in political forum as well.

 

Tommexit

This was a great way to cap honestly it's best season yet. Opening it up with the Godfather like music theme going on with the trial leading up to a big bang was well done. I almost wish they would have flipped the episode around and done the opposite. Daenerys gaining the aide of the Martell's (Or, Sands really) and the Tyrell's just in sheer numbers alone gives her the ridiculous upside over Cersei and King's Landing. Plus she has some support from the Greyjoy's. I don't think it's going to be much of a contest next year when she lands in Westeros.

 

Seeing Jon declared as the White Wolf and King in the North was a nice finish on the rollercoaster ride he's been through. Him and Daenerys are basically the same exact person when you think about their up bringing, their heartaches, their trials and errors and now their rise to power, not based on fear, but mostly out of respect just based on their human nature. The fact that they both show tremendous signs of doing what's right, doing what's needed that goes above their own ambitions and what's best for their people speaks volumes. If their is going to be a wedding. It has to be between these two. Which leads me to....

 

Jon's parentage. This is where it gets really, really interesting. Now I know most fans want to buy into the idea that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are the parents of Jon Snow. And I know they did the cute little camera switch from the perceived baby Jon to grown Jon. BUT, I am not quite convinced yet. I don't think GRRM will make it too easy for the fanbase. People keep saying it's a forgone conclusion and I don't buy it yet. For starters, when GRRM was approached by D&D about creating the show for HBO, he only asked D&D who they thought Jon's Mother was. He didn't ask them about who they thought his father was. And in the episode. Once again, they tease you. She doesn't outright say who the father is. And they leave you with Bran's face of surprise or shock when he clearly heard what she whispered to him.

 

In the books. There are a lot of misleading bits and pieces that could make you wonder constantly about Jon's father. Could it be Rhaegar? Maybe. Could it be Robert Baratheon? Also a major maybe. Everyone is quick to shoot down the idea of Robert being Jon's father because Lyanna makes Ned promise to protect Jon and she said that Robert would kill him. And the argument is that if he's a Baratheon then why wouldn't Ned just reveal that to him? Well, the truth isn't always that simple. Robert is a stubborn, headstrong and brash man. Do you think a straight forward man coming off of his rebellion and losing the woman he loved due to an alleged kidnapping and sexual assault from his enemy would believe a baby could be his? I doubt it. Robert was a womanizer. A renowned womanizer. Who had many, many children outside of wedlock throughout Westeros. He had so many that Cersei and Joffrey had to exterminate as many as they could find.

 

As Jon Aryn coined prior to his death. "The seed is strong". Robert doesn't miss the mark in the bedroom. It's a good chance that even if he slept with Lyanna just once or twice that he may have gotten her pregnant just before total chaos and the War kicked off. He was deeply in love with that woman. And that kind of brings me back to the Jon and Robert thing. In the books and show have you noticed that Jon and Robert never meet directly or face to face? Ned keeps him as far away as possible during their first meeting at Winterfell fourteen years after the War. He doesn't personally meet the boy. He doesn't see him. He doesn't eye him. Now, if you flash forward a bit to book five. Cersei is getting lost in her thoughts, and she strictly and vividly recalls seeing a young Jon Snow at Winterfell with striking and similar features facially on Jon that resembled Robert.

 

I am not so sold yet on Rhaegar. I think it's possible Robert is Jon's father. They never mentioned anything about Jon in terms of Targaryen like features. He's always said to look like Arya and Arya looks like Ned and his sister Lyanna. That was a dead give away. Also, I know the story isn't shy about incest. But come on. How brutally disgusting would it end up being if Jon was Daenery's Nephew and they married? So wrong. If it were a Baratheon and Targaryen union. It would make more sense. It would be fixing and making amends of the very two families that started the last War.

 

Then there is the whole baby swap theory. And the Lemon trees and Red Door that Daenerys' saw as a child. But that's for another time.

Quote:This was a great way to cap honestly it's best season yet. Opening it up with the Godfather like music theme going on with the trial leading up to a big bang was well done. I almost wish they would have flipped the episode around and done the opposite. Daenerys gaining the aide of the Martell's (Or, Sands really) and the Tyrell's just in sheer numbers alone gives her the ridiculous upside over Cersei and King's Landing. Plus she has some support from the Greyjoy's. I don't think it's going to be much of a contest next year when she lands in Westeros.

 

Seeing Jon declared as the White Wolf and King in the North was a nice finish on the rollercoaster ride he's been through. Him and Daenerys are basically the same exact person when you think about their up bringing, their heartaches, their trials and errors and now their rise to power, not based on fear, but mostly out of respect just based on their human nature. The fact that they both show tremendous signs of doing what's right, doing what's needed that goes above their own ambitions and what's best for their people speaks volumes. If their is going to be a wedding. It has to be between these two. Which leads me to....

 

Jon's parentage. This is where it gets really, really interesting. Now I know most fans want to buy into the idea that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are the parents of Jon Snow. And I know they did the cute little camera switch from the perceived baby Jon to grown Jon. BUT, I am not quite convinced yet. I don't think GRRM will make it too easy for the fanbase. People keep saying it's a forgone conclusion and I don't buy it yet. For starters, when GRRM was approached by D&D about creating the show for HBO, he only asked D&D who they thought Jon's Mother was. He didn't ask them about who they thought his father was. And in the episode. Once again, they tease you. She doesn't outright say who the father is. And they leave you with Bran's face of surprise or shock when he clearly heard what she whispered to him.

 

In the books. There are a lot of misleading bits and pieces that could make you wonder constantly about Jon's father. Could it be Rhaegar? Maybe. Could it be Robert Baratheon? Also a major maybe. Everyone is quick to shoot down the idea of Robert being Jon's father because Lyanna makes Ned promise to protect Jon and she said that Robert would kill him. And the argument is that if he's a Baratheon then why wouldn't Ned just reveal that to him? Well, the truth isn't always that simple. Robert is a stubborn, headstrong and brash man. Do you think a straight forward man coming off of his rebellion and losing the woman he loved due to an alleged kidnapping and sexual assault from his enemy would believe a baby could be his? I doubt it. Robert was a womanizer. A renowned womanizer. Who had many, many children outside of wedlock throughout Westeros. He had so many that Cersei and Joffrey had to exterminate as many as they could find.

 

As Jon Aryn coined prior to his death. "The seed is strong". Robert doesn't miss the mark in the bedroom. It's a good chance that even if he slept with Lyanna just once or twice that he may have gotten her pregnant just before total chaos and the War kicked off. He was deeply in love with that woman. And that kind of brings me back to the Jon and Robert thing. In the books and show have you noticed that Jon and Robert never meet directly or face to face? Ned keeps him as far away as possible during their first meeting at Winterfell fourteen years after the War. He doesn't personally meet the boy. He doesn't see him. He doesn't eye him. Now, if you flash forward a bit to book five. Cersei is getting lost in her thoughts, and she strictly and vividly recalls seeing a young Jon Snow at Winterfell with striking and similar features facially on Jon that resembled Robert.

 

I am not so sold yet on Rhaegar. I think it's possible Robert is Jon's father. They never mentioned anything about Jon in terms of Targaryen like features. He's always said to look like Arya and Arya looks like Ned and his sister Lyanna. That was a dead give away. Also, I know the story isn't shy about incest. But come on. How brutally disgusting would it end up being if Jon was Daenery's Nephew and they married? So wrong. If it were a Baratheon and Targaryen union. It would make more sense. It would be fixing and making amends of the very two families that started the last War.

 

Then there is the whole baby swap theory. And the Lemon trees and Red Door that Daenerys' saw as a child. But that's for another time.

Interesting theory. It does seem like we're settling into a somewhat more predictable story line and that just isn't very Game of Thrones like when you think about it. You might be on to something. The fact that it wasn't specifically revealed who his father is even in the face of the long running and popular theory of him being Targaryen is interesting. If he is Targaryen, why not just get it over with and say it already? Why drag out the reveal of what the vast majority of viewers already believe to be true?

Martin is basically letting the fanbase write the books by picking and choosing between the fan theories in order to develop the plot in the next two books

Quote:This was a great way to cap honestly it's best season yet. Opening it up with the Godfather like music theme going on with the trial leading up to a big bang was well done. I almost wish they would have flipped the episode around and done the opposite. Daenerys gaining the aide of the Martell's (Or, Sands really) and the Tyrell's just in sheer numbers alone gives her the ridiculous upside over Cersei and King's Landing. Plus she has some support from the Greyjoy's. I don't think it's going to be much of a contest next year when she lands in Westeros.

 

Seeing Jon declared as the White Wolf and King in the North was a nice finish on the rollercoaster ride he's been through. Him and Daenerys are basically the same exact person when you think about their up bringing, their heartaches, their trials and errors and now their rise to power, not based on fear, but mostly out of respect just based on their human nature. The fact that they both show tremendous signs of doing what's right, doing what's needed that goes above their own ambitions and what's best for their people speaks volumes. If their is going to be a wedding. It has to be between these two. Which leads me to....

 

Jon's parentage. This is where it gets really, really interesting. Now I know most fans want to buy into the idea that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are the parents of Jon Snow. And I know they did the cute little camera switch from the perceived baby Jon to grown Jon. BUT, I am not quite convinced yet. I don't think GRRM will make it too easy for the fanbase. People keep saying it's a forgone conclusion and I don't buy it yet. For starters, when GRRM was approached by D&D about creating the show for HBO, he only asked D&D who they thought Jon's Mother was. He didn't ask them about who they thought his father was. And in the episode. Once again, they tease you. She doesn't outright say who the father is. And they leave you with Bran's face of surprise or shock when he clearly heard what she whispered to him.

 

In the books. There are a lot of misleading bits and pieces that could make you wonder constantly about Jon's father. Could it be Rhaegar? Maybe. Could it be Robert Baratheon? Also a major maybe. Everyone is quick to shoot down the idea of Robert being Jon's father because Lyanna makes Ned promise to protect Jon and she said that Robert would kill him. And the argument is that if he's a Baratheon then why wouldn't Ned just reveal that to him? Well, the truth isn't always that simple. Robert is a stubborn, headstrong and brash man. Do you think a straight forward man coming off of his rebellion and losing the woman he loved due to an alleged kidnapping and sexual assault from his enemy would believe a baby could be his? I doubt it. Robert was a womanizer. A renowned womanizer. Who had many, many children outside of wedlock throughout Westeros. He had so many that Cersei and Joffrey had to exterminate as many as they could find.

 

As Jon Aryn coined prior to his death. "The seed is strong". Robert doesn't miss the mark in the bedroom. It's a good chance that even if he slept with Lyanna just once or twice that he may have gotten her pregnant just before total chaos and the War kicked off. He was deeply in love with that woman. And that kind of brings me back to the Jon and Robert thing. In the books and show have you noticed that Jon and Robert never meet directly or face to face? Ned keeps him as far away as possible during their first meeting at Winterfell fourteen years after the War. He doesn't personally meet the boy. He doesn't see him. He doesn't eye him. Now, if you flash forward a bit to book five. Cersei is getting lost in her thoughts, and she strictly and vividly recalls seeing a young Jon Snow at Winterfell with striking and similar features facially on Jon that resembled Robert.

 

I am not so sold yet on Rhaegar. I think it's possible Robert is Jon's father. They never mentioned anything about Jon in terms of Targaryen like features. He's always said to look like Arya and Arya looks like Ned and his sister Lyanna. That was a dead give away. Also, I know the story isn't shy about incest. But come on. How brutally disgusting would it end up being if Jon was Daenery's Nephew and they married? So wrong. If it were a Baratheon and Targaryen union. It would make more sense. It would be fixing and making amends of the very two families that started the last War.

 

Then there is the whole baby swap theory. And the Lemon trees and Red Door that Daenerys' saw as a child. But that's for another time.

Obviously this only pertains to the show directly but HBO posted this:

 

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/produ...nfographic

Robert was engaged he was never married, I would go ahead and assume they never hooked up before their wedding.

Quote:Robert was engaged he was never married, I would go ahead and assume they never hooked up before their wedding.

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure he's Targaryen, else why would the king's guard be posted outside the Tower of Joy?  I just find it odd that they felt the need to draw out further the reveal of that information.

Quote:Robert was engaged he was never married, I would go ahead and assume they never hooked up before their wedding.

 

You really think that would have prevented Robert from sleeping with Lyanna prior to marriage? Come on now. You think Robert fell in love with just her beauty? There is more history between those two than what's been let on in the story. Neddard and Robert were friends before they were eighteen. He was around before they were fostered off to Jon Aryn. Robert slept with Cersei on their wedding night and afterwards whispered "Lyanna" in her ear. That doesn't sound like that came from a man whose never been with a woman previously. Robert's tendency to sleep around and womanize was well known. He must have been pretty good at honeyed words. I don't think Lyanna can be ruled out as never sleeping with Robert.

 

Regarding Jaguarmesiter's idea of why the Kings guard was posted outside the Tower. Pretty simple. Had Robert slept with Lyanna weeks or even a month prior to the kidnapping. And Rhagear ran away with her afterwards and slept with her during that alleged 10 month to 12 month time frame. Jon could STILL be Robert's with Rhaegar and Lyanna under the impression it was their child conceived out of young and foolish love after the fact. The other problem is that no clear timeline or date of birth was established for Jon Snow. And there is no clue or hints as to when that War truly began and ended. And even the story doesn't give away the exact time Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna. It just says "Sometime after the Harrenhal Tournament".

 

I think the clues leading and pointing to Rhaegar were put in place to throw off the readers. And I think it's just too easy to buy into that theory so suddenly and so easily. It still doesn't account for the fact that there is no mentioning of Jon ever having Targaryen features. And in fact, it only comes up when Cersei states she saw facial resemblances between Jon and Robert back in Winterfell. Other than that connection. Jon is said to take after Neddard and Neddard took after Lyanna. Those are the only other connections made.

 

I still think if they were trying to solidify this theory. It would have been done in the finale. There is no more reasons or points to keep dragging out who Jon's father was other than to reveal yet another MAJOR twist. And I still circle back to  the "seed is strong" line in the books from Jon Aryn. Baratheon bloodline has a long history of dark hair, dark eyes and dark features. All of which Jon has in the book. I expect another a flashback with Bran next season. But it could go either way. If it's Rhaegar, cool. If it's Robert, cool. I am just saying, it's a little simple yet misleading at the same time. Even Martin warns about the idea of "prophecies" in his own interviews. Sometimes you look into it too literally and it bites you in the end. They're very tricky to decipher. Just look at how bad Melisandre failed Stannis Baratheon with her visions.

Quote:Targaryens are above the laws of men. That's why they could marry their siblings, and they also practiced polygamy as well. Who's to say that Rhaegar, a known traditionalist, didn't decide to revive the practice and marry Lyanna in the South? He would be a true born son of Rhaegar and have a better claim than Dany, although if he was smart he would marry her for the sake of the realm and allow her to rule, he taking at most a joint power position. Jon values the good of the realm more than his own ambition and I think he would want to secure Danys help against the Others at any cost.

 

Rhaegar may very well have married her rather than kidnapped her and raped her which seems unlikely given his feelings for her, over his Dornish wife.  Also, Lyanna may have given birth to twins, AFAIK, this hasn't been ruled out.  Less likely is John's twin may have been Dany although she is supposedly about 7 months older than him or something like that.  (We've already seen that the accepted history in the story can be a little misleading.)  But even if Jon really is a [BAD WORD REMOVED], he still may have a strong claim to the Iron Throne due to the GoT world's tradition of passing the crown down through the male line.  Same reason some people thought Gendry might have a claim to the throne on the Baratheon side even if Princess Shireen had survived her father. 

 

I wonder if Jon doesn't end up marrying his cousin Sansa to bind House Targaryen with House Stark before it's all over.

Quote:You really think that would have prevented Robert from sleeping with Lyanna prior to marriage? Come on now. You think Robert fell in love with just her beauty? There is more history between those two than what's been let on in the story. Neddard and Robert were friends before they were eighteen. He was around before they were fostered off to Jon Aryn. Robert slept with Cersei on their wedding night and afterwards whispered "Lyanna" in her ear. That doesn't sound like that came from a man whose never been with a woman previously. Robert's tendency to sleep around and womanize was well known. He must have been pretty good at honeyed words. I don't think Lyanna can be ruled out as never sleeping with Robert.

 

Regarding Jaguarmesiter's idea of why the Kings guard was posted outside the Tower. Pretty simple. Had Robert slept with Lyanna weeks or even a month prior to the kidnapping. And Rhagear ran away with her afterwards and slept with her during that alleged 10 month to 12 month time frame. Jon could STILL be Robert's with Rhaegar and Lyanna under the impression it was their child conceived out of young and foolish love after the fact. The other problem is that no clear timeline or date of birth was established for Jon Snow. And there is no clue or hints as to when that War truly began and ended. And even the story doesn't give away the exact time Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna. It just says "Sometime after the Harrenhal Tournament".

 

I think the clues leading and pointing to Rhaegar were put in place to throw off the readers. And I think it's just too easy to buy into that theory so suddenly and so easily. It still doesn't account for the fact that there is no mentioning of Jon ever having Targaryen features. And in fact, it only comes up when Cersei states she saw facial resemblances between Jon and Robert back in Winterfell. Other than that connection. Jon is said to take after Neddard and Neddard took after Lyanna. Those are the only other connections made.

 

I still think if they were trying to solidify this theory. It would have been done in the finale. There is no more reasons or points to keep dragging out who Jon's father was other than to reveal yet another MAJOR twist. And I still circle back to  the "seed is strong" line in the books from Jon Aryn. Baratheon bloodline has a long history of dark hair, dark eyes and dark features. All of which Jon has in the book. I expect another a flashback with Bran next season. But it could go either way. If it's Rhaegar, cool. If it's Robert, cool. I am just saying, it's a little simple yet misleading at the same time. Even Martin warns about the idea of "prophecies" in his own interviews. Sometimes you look into it too literally and it bites you in the end. They're very tricky to decipher. Just look at how bad Melisandre failed Stannis Baratheon with her visions.

I mean sure, in the books it could go either way. I'm on board with their being two babies, Jon and Mira.

 

For the show, I linked you to HBO saying it's Raeghar. Now if you wanna discuss them not doing a good job of explaining it in the show that's one thing but they have straight up said its Raeghar.

Quote:I mean sure, in the books it could go either way. I'm on board with their being two babies, Jon and Mira.

 

For the show, I linked you to HBO saying it's Raeghar. Now if you wanna discuss them not doing a good job of explaining it in the show that's one thing but they have straight up said its Raeghar.

 

That's a terrible way to handle the reveal on their end then. I guess we'll see flashbacks of him and Lyanna then next season between the Harrenhal tournament and them running off to the Tower of Joy, etc.

Quote:You really think that would have prevented Robert from sleeping with Lyanna prior to marriage? Come on now. You think Robert fell in love with just her beauty? There is more history between those two than what's been let on in the story. Neddard and Robert were friends before they were eighteen. He was around before they were fostered off to Jon Aryn. Robert slept with Cersei on their wedding night and afterwards whispered "Lyanna" in her ear. That doesn't sound like that came from a man whose never been with a woman previously. Robert's tendency to sleep around and womanize was well known. He must have been pretty good at honeyed words. I don't think Lyanna can be ruled out as never sleeping with Robert.

 

Regarding Jaguarmesiter's idea of why the Kings guard was posted outside the Tower. Pretty simple. Had Robert slept with Lyanna weeks or even a month prior to the kidnapping. And Rhagear ran away with her afterwards and slept with her during that alleged 10 month to 12 month time frame. Jon could STILL be Robert's with Rhaegar and Lyanna under the impression it was their child conceived out of young and foolish love after the fact. The other problem is that no clear timeline or date of birth was established for Jon Snow. And there is no clue or hints as to when that War truly began and ended. And even the story doesn't give away the exact time Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna. It just says "Sometime after the Harrenhal Tournament".

 

I think the clues leading and pointing to Rhaegar were put in place to throw off the readers. And I think it's just too easy to buy into that theory so suddenly and so easily. It still doesn't account for the fact that there is no mentioning of Jon ever having Targaryen features. And in fact, it only comes up when Cersei states she saw facial resemblances between Jon and Robert back in Winterfell. Other than that connection. Jon is said to take after Neddard and Neddard took after Lyanna. Those are the only other connections made.

 

I still think if they were trying to solidify this theory. It would have been done in the finale. There is no more reasons or points to keep dragging out who Jon's father was other than to reveal yet another MAJOR twist. And I still circle back to  the "seed is strong" line in the books from Jon Aryn. Baratheon bloodline has a long history of dark hair, dark eyes and dark features. All of which Jon has in the book. I expect another a flashback with Bran next season. But it could go either way. If it's Rhaegar, cool. If it's Robert, cool. I am just saying, it's a little simple yet misleading at the same time. Even Martin warns about the idea of "prophecies" in his own interviews. Sometimes you look into it too literally and it bites you in the end. They're very tricky to decipher. Just look at how bad Melisandre failed Stannis Baratheon with her visions.

I see what you are saying and it is definitely possible Robert got Lyanna pregnant I just don't see the Starks keeping such a loose eye on a known womanizer.


One thing is Jon has Brown hair that appears Black.  Where as all of the Baratheons and Baratheons bastards have purely Black hair.  The other thing is the Baratheons and Baratheon bastards are known to be very strong for their age where Jon is more graceful and quick.


Robert Baratheon is known for his charm, outgoing and gregarious personality and remarkable ability to turn enemies into friends. Robert's lusts became the subject of ribald drinking songs throughout the realm. According to Ned, Robert would promise a woman the world in the night and forget everything, including her, in the morning.   

 

Jon Snow isn't really known for his charm or being outgoing.  He also has mixed results with turning enemies to friends.

 

Now with Rhaegar Jon shares an intelligence when it comes to doing things he puts his mind to.  Jon is also very private and quiet who doesn't waste words.


The timeline in Roberts rebellion is somewhat unclear we do know it starts with Lyannas abduction and basically ends with her death.  In the middle of that you have many battles one in particular gives a clue away

 
After the Battle of Ashford, Mace Tyrell marched on Storm's End, and laid siege to the castle. This siege would last "close to a year".

 
if the war starts with the abduction of Lyanna and ends with her dying in pregnancy and one part of the war lasted almost a year we can pretty much rule out that Robert got her pregnant


Anyway if you can pick this apart some and further this debate on I would love to.  This is probably my favorite thing about the series  (couple book notes below)


I do like the implication that wether Jon is part Baratheon or Targaryen its interesting that Stark has genetic dominance over each.

Quote:adding to that Even at age fourteen, Jon is said to have more Stark-like features than any of his half-brothers. Jon has a lean build, with dark brown hair and grey eyes so dark they border on black. He is graceful and quick. Tyrion Lannister notes that Jon has the traditional Stark face in everything but name—long, solemn and guarded—a face that gives nothing away. 

Quote:Rhaegar was tall and beautiful, with dark indigo eyes and the silver hair of the Targaryens, worn long. Rhaegar was exceedingly intelligent and excelled at anything he put his mind to. He was considered to be a talented musician and skilled knight. While well-loved by the people, Rhaegar was said to be quiet, private and bookish

Ser Jaime Lannister still remembers the iron tones of Rhaegar’s voice 

Quote:That's a terrible way to handle the reveal on their end then. I guess we'll see flashbacks of him and Lyanna then next season between the Harrenhal tournament and them running off to the Tower of Joy, etc.

I don't think it's a terrible way to handle it. They trust the people to get the info based on nuggets they have dropped over 6 seasons. Now the obvious argument to that is people need and want to be spoon fed the info and that's for sure true. Out of my non book reader friends roughly half got it and the other half were like so Ned did his sister?!?!?! 

Had been avoiding this thread like the plague as I'd been attempting to finish the books before watching series 6.


Finished it yesterday.

The battle of the bastards was an incredible episode.


Have a feeling Jaime Lanister is going to do something monumently heroic before his death.Possibly kills Cersei??

Quote:Had been avoiding this thread like the plague as I'd been attempting to finish the books before watching series 6.


Finished it yesterday.

The battle of the [BAD WORD REMOVED] was an incredible episode.


Have a feeling Jaime Lanister is going to do something monumently heroic before his death.Possibly kills Cersei??

So says the prophecy.  The little brother shall kill you.

Quote:So says the prophecy.  The little brother shall kill you.

Obviously that means Arya with Jamie's face. The many-faced god requires a name. 

Quote:Obviously that means Arya with Jamie's face. The many-faced god requires a name.

Could that not also be construed as Tyrion? I know Arya has her on his list but I think Tyrion makes sense too.


"Little brother" could mean younger brother as well as a reference to his height.


He has a huge army and many reasons to kill Cersei.

Quote:Even Martin warns about the idea of "prophecies" in his own interviews. Sometimes you look into it too literally and it bites you in the end. They're very tricky to decipher. Just look at how bad Melisandre failed Stannis Baratheon with her visions.

 

I had to borrow this quote because it seems to fit in really well with this discussion about the Valonqar.

 

There's a theory that the Valonqar was translated incorrectly, since neither Maggy nor the septa who translated it to Cersei would have been fluent in High Valyrian.  That the Valonqar is actually just a younger sibling, and not necessarily a little brother.  The term is actually gender neutral, they just default to a male gender when it's actually unknown.

 

The theory opens up the possibility of Dany, the Sand Snakes (sans Obara since she is the oldest), Brienne, Sansa and Arya as potential Valonqars, who all have definite or potential reason to want to kill her.

One thing about this series and the books as well is there are no throw away scenes or conversations.  As I rewatch from season one so many things that have occured this season have had foreshadowing in the past.  I absolutely love the Rat King story Bran tells to the Reeds and Osha and then having Arya pull the All Frey's must Pie scene in the season finale.