Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote: 

BUT... 

would we be any better? Can't say for sure. The D/pass rush is still our biggest issue.

 

Completely agree.  That's why I worry some are putting too much faith in Fowler coming back from injury to somehow "solve" it by himself.

Quote:You realize you destroy yourself with your own argument, since the Titans passed him up.

 

Fowler hasn't yet proved he was worth the pick.  He'll have to do that, and I'm skeptical.  Even more than on draft day.

 

To say he certainly will be are simply wishes, hopes, and prayers.  If that's how you feel, that's fine.  Just realize that's all it is.  Wishing, hoping, and praying that it's true.  Because until he proves it, it's not.

Not really, 2 teams passed up Fowler who both need a qb and 4 teams passed on Williams.  He must not been as good of a prospect as you thought he was and as you were saying before the draft. You are right, nobody knows how he will do just like any other player that ever gets drafted.  The guy was top 5 on almost every mock and im sure on every draft board as was probably Cooper.  You sit there and act like he was a reach and dont think he will live up to his drafting.  Thats all it is, you thinking the guy is a tweener and not worth the pick.  Maybe he is, maybe he isnt.  Thats with any draft pick.  You can hate on the pick all you want.  We all know you thought Williams was the best player in the draft and wanted him over Fowler.  Quit dreaming about Williams and move on!  Nobody knows for sure how the guy will play but I think the guy will be pretty good

Quote:Completely agree.  That's why I worry some are putting too much faith in Fowler coming back from injury to somehow "solve" it by himself.

Can you show where anyone said this?  We know you are up set about not picking Williams.  I wanted Cooper but with the way Hurns and A Rob have played I think Fowler was the right pick.  How would we resign Cooper, Hurns, and A Rob?  Would be to much money in 1 position and you complain about the pass rush.  Then we wouldn't have Fowler and would still need 2 pass rushers

Quote:Can you show where anyone said this?  We know you are up set about not picking Williams.  I wanted Cooper but with the way Hurns and A Rob have played I think Fowler was the right pick.  How would we resign Cooper, Hurns, and A Rob?  Would be to much money in 1 position and you complain about the pass rush.  Then we wouldn't have Fowler and would still need 2 pass rushers

 

What has Fowler given us this season?  Nothing.

 

What can we expect next season? Nothing.  Otherwise, you are expecting him to solve one of the 2 you're admitting we need.

 

This isn't about Williams, never was... though you're trying to cling to that because you feel Fowler was the "better" pick.  So far, that's false and you're mad about it - not me.  Cooper was the better pick as I've stated.  It's just that you're sold on the reach of Fowler over Williams and I'm not, to which you project me as "mad" about it.  I'm not mad about anything.  I simply disagree and haven't been swayed by looking at the evidence, and especially not by your arguments (which are two entirely different things.)

Quote:What has Fowler given us this season?  Nothing.

 

What can we expect next season? Nothing.  Otherwise, you are expecting him to solve one of the 2 you're admitting we need.

 

This isn't about Williams, never was... though you're trying to cling to that because you feel Fowler was the "better" pick.  So far, that's false and you're mad about it - not me.  Cooper was the better pick as I've stated.  It's just that you're sold on the reach of Fowler over Williams and I'm not, to which you project me as "mad" about it.  I'm not mad about anything.  I simply disagree and haven't been swayed by looking at the evidence, and especially not by your arguments (which are two entirely different things.)

It simply isn't true that Fowler was a reach. And we can expect production by him to some degree.


It isn't even an argument to say that anyone was "the better pick...."

Alualu was a reach as nobody expected him to be picked that early.


 

Fowler was not a reach as he was a top five pick on every ranking.

Quote:Alualu was a reach as nobody expected him to be picked that early.
but not on Pirks so therefore he was a reach

Fowler was not
a reach as he was a top five pick on every ranking.

Let's not be disingenuous here, Fowler was not top 5 on every ranking by a long shot. There were a ton of boards where the top 5 were Winston, Mariota, Amari, Leonard Williams, and Beasley or Scherff (or even a handful of  White/Gurley/Shelton) as the 5th...especially from the younger/more analytically driven draftniks. Fowler was significantly down a good number of those lists. 

Quote:Let's not be disingenuous here, Fowler was not top 5 on every ranking by a long shot. There were a ton of boards where the top 5 were Winston, Mariota, Amari, Leonard Williams, and Beasley or Scherff (or even a handful of  White/Gurley/Shelton) as the 5th...especially from the younger/more analytically driven draftniks. Fowler was significantly down a good number of those lists. 

 

 

I'm fairly sure that every major media draft board had Fowler in the top five.

Quote:Let's not be disingenuous here, Fowler was not top 5 on every ranking by a long shot. There were a ton of boards where the top 5 were Winston, Mariota, Amari, Leonard Williams, and Beasley or Scherff (or even a handful of White/Gurley/Shelton) as the 5th...especially from the younger/more analytically driven draftniks. Fowler was significantly down a good number of those lists.

Beasley? Vic wasnt top 5 on any draft board. The guy is a one trick pony and not even that good at the one trick. Just like you thought Teddy was the best prospect a few years ago and Geno was they guy they year before that. 31 teams passed on him and is clearly not better than Bortles or Carr. You need to quit believing those twitter wanna be scouts man. They steer you wrong every year

Quote:Beasley? Vic wasnt top 5 on any draft board. The guy is a one trick pony and not even that good at the one trick. Just like you thought Teddy was the best prospect a few years ago and Geno was they guy they year before that. 31 teams passed on him and is clearly not better than Bortles or Carr. You need to quit believing those twitter wanna be scouts man. They steer you wrong every year

Started to respond but decided there was far too much to have to correct it wasn't worth it. Hopefully one day you learn some perspective and a little patience. Have a good day.

Quote:I'm fairly sure that every major media draft board had Fowler in the top five.

 

As stated before, that was solely because people were convinced we were going to take him.

 

Having him actually grade in the top 5, and draftniks projecting we would take him top 5 are two entirely unrelated things.  No one had him anywhere near there until rumors started flying we would take him there.  Huge difference.

 

A lot of folks are acting like they forgot what trouble draftniks were having trying to grade these "edge" players.  No one had a clear consensus on who was the best prospect (though consensus was arguably Gregory before his pre draft shenanigans) and no one could agree on which position they projected at best.  So, the tweener OLBs were a bit elevated (the group which Fowler was a part of) and I feel the true RDEs were a bit overlooked or mis-evaluated.

 

Because the class was a big question mark, OLBs and RDEs alike got lumped together as "edge," which IMO was a disservice to all.

 

All had different strengths/weaknesses, and rather than examine those vs fit in different schemes and grade them according to those rush OLB or RDE roles - they were all labeled "edge."  Made the work easier for the draftniks, but caused poorer "evaluations."

 

In the past, you were an RDE or you weren't.  If you weren't, you were scouted at rush OLB.  A tweener, who could possibly play RDE in right scheme or if used the right way.

 

We got a tweener, not a true RDE, and those speculative types of players aren't top 5 picks unless your name is Lawrence Taylor.  If we were going to reach for a LEO with the fifth pick of the draft (and that's precisely what we did given this entire explanation,) there were other candidates that were just as good or even better prospects to take there.  And that's just looking at the "edge" players alone... not even counting Cooper or Williams at other positions.

 

If you can't accept it was a reach after all the evidence, then that's great.  That's my observation and I've spelled it out quite clearly.  I'm not here to convince you, just share my thoughts.  Which, are well researched, well backed, and well explained as succinctly as possible.  Much more so than a "so and so said on such website" retort.

Quote:Completely agree.  That's why I worry some are putting too much faith in Fowler coming back from injury to somehow "solve" it by himself.

Yeah I don't think he will solve it by himself. I'm hoping he adds just enough.

 

Adding Marks made guys better around him.

 

I'm OK with drafting another LEO or pass rushing specialist. But would rather make a move on a veteran, 2 rookies (essentially) doesn't offer much more hope.

Quote:Apparently, all his ligaments are intact other than the ACL which I imagine will be helpful in his recovery. He will be back 100 percent after a year off. He just turned 21.


But still, I'm getting Bosa, Nkemdiche, or another pass rusher. I remember the days of Freeney and Robert Mathis

I don't think we will be drafting high enough for those 2.


I wanna get rid of Poz, draft Jaylon Smith and have LBs like the Panthers have. Luke and Davis are unreal for them.


Imagine Telvin and Jaylon....

Quote:I'm OK with drafting another LEO or pass rushing specialist. But would rather make a move on a veteran, 2 rookies (essentially) doesn't offer much more hope.

Name(s) please??

Quote:I don't think we will be drafting high enough for those 2

Agreed

Quote:I don't think we will be drafting high enough for those 2.


I wanna get ride of Poz, draft Jaylon and have LBs like the Panthers have. Luke and Davis are unreal for them.

Would be way down for Jaylon Smith

Quote:Name(s) please??


Agreed

Names of pass rushers?

 

Is Google broken?

 

I named rookies we could draft as pass rushers. Bosa, Lawson, heck maybe even a guy like Calhoun from Mich St.

 

The veteran FAs have been discussed ad nauseum, especially as the trade deadline came and went.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/u...nsive-end/

take your pick

 

If we are relying on Fowler coming off ACL and another rookie at LEO next year, we could be let down.

However, if we move on from Clem, grab a late 20s vet to pair with Fowler

and maybe add another in the 3rd like a versatile lineman from Bama Jonathan Allen

I'd feel a little better.

Quote:Let's not be disingenuous here, Fowler was not top 5 on every ranking by a long shot. There were a ton of boards where the top 5 were Winston, Mariota, Amari, Leonard Williams, and Beasley or Scherff (or even a handful of  White/Gurley/Shelton) as the 5th...especially from the younger/more analytically driven draftniks. Fowler was significantly down a good number of those lists. 

 

 

Quote:I'm fairly sure that every major media draft board had Fowler in the top five.

 

For what it's worth, ESPN's top 20 player rankings the day before the draft were:

 

 


<b>1</b>

<b>Jameis Winston</b><b>  </b>

<b>2</b>

<b>Leonard Williams</b><b> </b>

<b>3</b>

<b>Amari Cooper</b><b>       </b>

<b>4</b>

<b>Dante Fowler</b><b> </b>

<b>5</b>

<b>Marcus Mariota</b><b> </b>

<b>6</b>

<b>Brandon Schreff</b><b>    </b>

<b>7</b>

<b>Kevin White</b>

<b>8</b>

<b>Todd Gurley</b><b>               </b>

<b>9</b>

<b>Devante Parker</b><b>        </b>

<b>10</b>

<b>Trae Waynes</b><b>               </b>

<b>11</b>

<b>Andrus Peat</b><b>                </b>

<b>12</b>

<b>Arik Armstead</b><b>    </b>

<b>13</b>

<b>Ereck Flowers</b><b>             </b>

<b>14</b>

<b>Danny Shelton</b><b>      </b>

<b>15</b>

<b>Kevin Johnson</b><b>               </b>

<b>16</b>

<b>Cameron Erving</b><b>            </b>

<b>17</b>

<b>Melvin Gordon</b><b>           </b>

<b>18</b>

<b>Randy Gregory</b><b>     </b>

<b>19</b>

<b>Malcom Brown</b><b>     </b>

<b>20</b>

<b>Breshad Perriman</b><b>  </b>

I think some people are confusing draft boards with mock drafts.

Quote:I think some people are confusing draft boards with mock drafts.

 

 

Either way Fowler is not a reach. He's top five in most draft boards, and he was slated to the Jaguars at #3 in most mock drafts..