Quote:It's called being reasonable. While I sit on the right regarding most issues, I do lean towards compromise depending on the issue. As far as this issue though, I am firmly without a doubt on the right. Let the sissy that wants to "identify himself as a female" either dress in the unisex facility or the male facility. I refuse to call a male that "identifies as a female" she, and I don't think that such person should be given special "rights".
Sure you didn't mean Thithy.
What happens when someone identifies as bisexual?...bathroom availability X2.
Quote:To a lot of people including some on this board, being a centrist or attempting to be reasonable is the equivalent of cowardly sniveling fence sitting. Or some derivative there of.
This is true. I've been accused of it, though not outright.
Quote:Honestly, it's hard for me to post on this topic because I feel I have some prejudices that do not allow me to see a trans as a legit thing...
I'll write something up about my thoughts maybe later.
I'd be interested to read your thoughts as I have similar issues though mine are along the lines of your chromosomes tell you who you are. You can identify as something all day long but you are still biologically male or female at the end of that day.
Quote:I'd be interested to read your thoughts as I have similar issues though mine are along the lines of your chromosomes tell you who you are. You can identify as something all day long but you are still biologically male or female at the end of that day.
Though I certainly don't presume to speak for anyone, my limited knowledge leads me to believe transgenders and transsexuals recognize and accept the biological facts. they just don't let the presence of organs and chromosomes define who they are.
Quote:Though I certainly don't presume to speak for anyone, my limited knowledge leads me to believe transgenders and transsexuals recognize and accept the biological facts. they just don't let the presence of organs and chromosomes define who they are.
I guess that's just a weird concept for me. If you're a guy, you're a guy. A girl is a girl. Black is black. Asian is Asian. White is white. A dog is a dog and a cat is a cat.
I don't care that people are different so much as it just doesn't make sense. I'm a very literal person in many ways. At times I see it as a disadvantage. In other ways I'm very open minded. It can be very confusing to be me. Lol.
Quote:I guess that's just a weird concept for me. If you're a guy, you're a guy. A girl is a girl. Black is black. Asian is Asian. White is white. A dog is a dog and a cat is a cat.
I don't care that people are different so much as it just doesn't make sense. I'm a very literal person in many ways. At times I see it as a disadvantage. In other ways I'm very open minded. It can be very confusing to be me. Lol.
You're thinking black and white in a world of grays. Do you not know girls who look and act masculine, or men who look or act feminine? I've heard many stories of boys who preferred playing with dolls over playing ball, and vice versa for girls. Is it that much of a stretch to think a boy may feel overwhelmingly that he should not only play with dolls, but also wear women's clothes, makeup and grow their hair long, from an age too early to attribute to exterior influences. Even that is an oversimplification.
Society strongly influences gender norms, and they have evolved over time. In past civilizations, and even other cultures currently, transgenders and transsexuals were not only accepted, they were and are considered special, even blessed. At the end of the day, all they want is to be who they feel they are.
Quote:You're thinking black and white in a world of grays. Do you not know girls who look and act masculine, or men who look or act feminine? I've heard many stories of boys who preferred playing with dolls over playing ball, and vice versa for girls. Is it that much of a stretch to think a boy may feel overwhelmingly that he should not only play with dolls, but also wear women's clothes, makeup and grow their hair long, from an age too early to attribute to exterior influences. Even that is an oversimplification.
Society strongly influences gender norms, and they have evolved over time. In past civilizations, and even other cultures currently, transgenders and transsexuals were not only accepted, they were and are considered special, even blessed. At the end of the day, all they want is to be who they feel they are.
Sure, they can play with whatever they want or dress however they want. I don't support letting them alienate the actual females at the school by forcing them to shower with someone with male genitalia, though.
If the boy wants to play with dolls, dress like a girl, and "identify" as a girl, fine. "Identifying as a girl" shouldn't be a free ticket to use the girls locker room, though. Watch the YouTube video of "Cartman uses girl's bathroom" to see an oversimplified clip of how allowing that can become an issue.
There isn't a gray area. The person has male or female genitalia and should use the appropriate room. The idea that feelings override reality is a significant problem in our society. Reality does not cease to exist just because you stop believing in it.
Quote:Sure, they can play with whatever they want or dress however they want. I don't support letting them alienate the actual females at the school by forcing them to shower with someone with male genitalia, though.
If the boy wants to play with dolls, dress like a girl, and "identify" as a girl, fine. "Identifying as a girl" shouldn't be a free ticket to use the girls locker room, though. Watch the YouTube video of "Cartman uses girl's bathroom" to see an oversimplified clip of how allowing that can become an issue.
I can think of no scenario in which Cartman has relevance, except possibly to portray behavior that should not be tolerated.
Have you seen what was considered scandalous beachwear for women 100 years ago? Girls reveal more skin while attending high school these days.
Society can, and will, adapt, and reasonable compromises can be made. On both sides.
Quote:There isn't a gray area. The person has male or female genitalia and should use the appropriate room. The idea that feelings override reality is a significant problem in our society. Reality does not cease to exist just because you stop believing in it.
Less giggling and mystery about genitals and boobies would be progress.
I still don't understand why we need to cater to a very small population while making the many in the larger majority uncomfortable.
I would have a major issue if my daughter was in school and they were telling me a boy was going to shower in the same locker room as her. He identifies as a girl, so do we let him play girls sports too? How far do we let this go?
Quote:I still don't understand why we need to cater to a very small population while making the many in the larger majority uncomfortable.
I would have a major issue if my daughter was in school and they were telling me a boy was going to shower in the same locker room as her. He identifies as a girl, so do we let him play girls sports too? How far do we let this go?
Common sense is out the window in the name of "progress". He "identifies" as a girl so we have to call him "she". It doesn't matter that it affects a very small portion of our population. We must be "inclusive" if it fits the agenda.
Quote:Common sense is out the window in the name of "progress". He "identifies" as a girl so we have to call him "she". It doesn't matter that it affects a very small portion of our population. We must be "inclusive" if it fits the agenda.
Can't tell if you genuinely have disdain for the trans community or not. You sure seem to go out of your way point out you wont refer to people how they prefer to be referred.
I love the "who cares since it's such a small portion of the population". These are your fellow Americans for crying out loud though I am sure the sentiment was the same with the Japanese Americans being a small portion of the population.
Quote:Common sense is out the window in the name of "progress". He "identifies" as a girl so we have to call him "she". It doesn't matter that it affects a very small portion of our population. We must be "inclusive" if it fits the agenda.
It's not as simple as waking up one day and realizing that you were born with the wrong hardware. It's a long, difficult process, often starting in adolescence, and it's rarely taken seriously by the family and support structure until young adulthood (if ever). People are free to be who they are, and those of us who are lucky enough to be born with the correct hardware and harboring an affection for people with the opposite hardware will never understand what it's like to be born into the wrong body. If someone named Bob introduces themselves to me as a woman, I'm inclined to accept that. Their life sucks enough because of their gender already, so insulting them by intentionally addressing and referring to them as the wrong gender wouldn't help anything.
I can't make you accept that it is possible to be transgender, but I can and will ask that if someone introduces themselves as a member of the opposite gender, you please be understanding of that and treat them with respect and the pronouns they've asked to be addressed by. Keep in mind that this is someone who has probably survived multiple suicide attempts, been ostracized by friends and family, and quite likely spent their entire lives having people they should be able to trust, like doctors, counselors, teachers and parents, tell them that they're either mistaken, mentally ill or, my personal favorite, "just seeking attention".
All that being said, I still don't think that someone with male hardware belongs in the female locker room, but I do think that offering a third, gender-neutral location is the right answer.
Quote:Can't tell if you genuinely have disdain for the trans community or not. You sure seem to go out of your way point out you wont refer to people how they prefer to be referred.
I love the "who cares since it's such a small portion of the population". These are your fellow Americans for crying out loud though I am sure the sentiment was the same with the Japanese Americans being a small portion of the population.
Honestly, I'm a "live and let live" kind of person when it comes to what people want to do with their lives. However, I do draw the line when it's "pushed" on me to be "acceptable". In the case of the OP. I don't care if the boy wants to "identify" himself as a girl, wants to dress in female clothing and call himself by another name. I'm perfectly fine with that.
Where I draw the line is when it's "pushed" on me to call this guy a girl and even more so when this "girl" wants to use the female locker room. As stated in the article it's supposedly "bigotry" to forbid this boy from doing so (and he is a boy).
A reasonable compromise was offered, but it was rejected.
Quote:
The school apparently offered Perry a gender neutral bathroom, which he rejected claiming, “I am a girl, I shouldn’t be pushed off to another bathroom.”
Quote:Honestly, I'm a "live and let live" kind of person when it comes to what people want to do with their lives. However, I do draw the line when it's "pushed" on me to be "acceptable". In the case of the OP. I don't care if the boy wants to "identify" himself as a girl, wants to dress in female clothing and call himself by another name. I'm perfectly fine with that.
Where I draw the line is when it's "pushed" on me to call this guy a girl and even more so when this "girl" wants to use the female locker room. As stated in the article it's supposedly "bigotry" to forbid this boy from doing so (and he is a boy).
A reasonable compromise was offered, but it was rejected.
I appreciate you summing up the article in the thread that I have been participating in, for some reason.
Do you feel "pushed" into not using racial slurs? Would it not bother you as a person if someone where to refer ot you in a way that makes you feel like less of a person or as if you don't know who you are? Because that is what you are doing in your "refusal" to refer to them as they see themselves. Frankly, it comes across as being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn (presuming you have no actual ill intent).
Quote:It's not as simple as waking up one day and realizing that you were born with the wrong hardware. It's a long, difficult process, often starting in adolescence, and it's rarely taken seriously by the family and support structure until young adulthood (if ever). People are free to be who they are, and those of us who are lucky enough to be born with the correct hardware and harboring an affection for people with the opposite hardware will never understand what it's like to be born into the wrong body. If someone named Bob introduces themselves to me as a woman, I'm inclined to accept that. Their life sucks enough because of their gender already, so insulting them by intentionally addressing and referring to them as the wrong gender wouldn't help anything.
I can't make you accept that it is possible to be transgender, but I can and will ask that if someone introduces themselves as a member of the opposite gender, you please be understanding of that and treat them with respect and the pronouns they've asked to be addressed by. Keep in mind that this is someone who has probably survived multiple suicide attempts, been ostracized by friends and family, and quite likely spent their entire lives having people they should be able to trust, like doctors, counselors, teachers and parents, tell them that they're either mistaken, mentally ill or, my personal favorite, "just seeking attention".
All that being said, I still don't think that someone with male hardware belongs in the female locker room, but I do think that offering a third, gender-neutral location is the right answer.
I get where you are coming from, but let me point out this. Many on the left often fight to teach evolution in schools. Did evolution in the case of the OP make this kid a male or a female? If the kid "feels" like he was born with the wrong hardware, is that not a belief?
Quote:I get where you are coming from, but let me point out this. Many on the left often fight to teach evolution in schools. Did evolution in the case of the OP make this kid a male or a female? If the kid "feels" like he was born with the wrong hardware, is that not a belief?
Classic righty move of trying to turn everything they disagree with into a belief.
Did I impersonate you correctly?
