Quote:Luntz warms up the crowd to his point of view. He's a propagandist. He get's them to think and say what he wants them to say.
The 3 dudes that I honestly think did the best were Big Ben, Kasich, and (rather far behind the 2) Rand.
Luntz made sure to downplay for the most part and out right ignore the success of Ben and Kasich...
The Huck is unelectable, but makes good ratings for Fox. Cruz is an establishment candidate that is a Fox regular. Both those guys are well known by the regular Fox Crowd. Big Ben and Kasich are, at least relative to The Huck and Cruz, outsiders.
Luntz is perpetuating the status quo. It's a pathetic ploy that someone that is outside of the bubble (IE a commie liberal like myself :thumbsup: ) can see. Those within the bubble are (IE you guys) have a hard time seeing it.
I'd be very wary, if I were a Conservative, of anything that Fox News and Frank Luntz -- and by defacto Karl Rove--- try to shove down my throat... Just trying to help you're side out here...
While I agree with you that Frank Luntz downplayed John Kasich, I thought he gave Ben Carson his props. Especially, on Carson's closing comments.
We strongly disagree regarding Ted Cruz, as I view him as an anti-establishment candidate. The establishment Republican ' leadership' in DC is against Cruz because he doesn't follow them like sheep.
There's no question that Karl Rove is a poster boy for the establishment.
As for who did the best in the debate, it's very subjective. Because I like the vast majority of the messages that Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee conveyed in the debate and thought they came across real well, I rate them as the best performers in the debate. Having said that, while I have major differences with John Kasich, I thought he did a very good job based on expressing his positions. Kasich was prepared. He was confident, not cocky. Before this debate, I didn't think Kasich would be a significant factor in the Republican race. Now, I think he's someone who at least in the coming weeks will see a noticeable increase in support. Maybe even more.
As for who did the worst, no question it was Donald Trump. I think Trump is a phony who craves attention.
Trump only agreed to show up when someone told him he'd have a clear view down Megyn Kelly's shirt for about two hours.
Of all the candidates who participated tonight, Kasich impressed me the most. I don't know much about him, but he struck me as being the most normal of the bunch, and he didn't seem to show that he has any hidden agenda. I'm convinced that Trump is a phony and he's just in this race for himself. If Trump's campaign isn't evidence of an oligarchy in this country, than I don't know what is. None of the candidates seemed to offer any specifics about their plans, and I felt like more issues could have been addressed regarding: marijuana, drones, Syria, Libya, income-inequality, Ukraine, and the South China Sea to name a few.
In my opinion, the candidates who will most likely see their support go up will be: Cruz, Paul, Rubio, Kasich, and Carson. Bush looked very uneasy at times, and seemed to fumble around a lot of the questions; and he also did not exhibit much confidence when speaking. Christie is done for. Huckabee is too far right. Trump seemed to dodge some questions and didn't offer any specifics about his plans.
It's going to be real interesting to see who will emerge on top as the nominee in the next 12 months.
Trump was funny, but his entire campagin is a joke.
I will continue to support Dr. Ben Carson for the Republican primary as he is the most intelligent person whom has yet to be corrupted by Washington Politics.
Quote:Of all the candidates who participated tonight, Kasich impressed me the most.
He's an investment banker. Was a high-up for Lehman Bros. That connection alone is enough for me to completely discount him.
I thought Rubio was the most poised and gave some of the best answers. Jeb Bush did okay, but he stumbled over his answers sometimes. Trump was the usual joke- really obnoxious, no specifics. Carson is obviously an intelligent guy. Walker- meh. Christie and Paul both seemed kind of desperate.
Winner- Rubio.
Quote:Had a friend tell me to look into Kasich which I will do.
He can go a little too much evangelical on you at times, but he's done well in Ohio.
As these debates go into the future he will be savaged for being "soft" and "unpure". The Republican Party has reached the sad state of affairs in which you'll be attacked for wanting to reach out to all the citizens you supposedly represent, instead of just those who will write them a check.
Oh, and it's it weird that every one of these candidates is going to have Jesus Christ as their running mate.
Post-debate rankings:
1) Donald Trump - Still a giant middle finger to the establishment and I love it. Simple, communicable message that can be understood by everyone. Could use a little more depth to his message, but not too much more. Maybe change up his delivery method a bit. Also, Fox hiding personal attacks behind the form of questions and giving loaded non-relevant questions was a bad move on their part. Personal attacks only make him stronger.
2) Ben Carson - This guy is extremely intelligent and methodical in the delivery of his message and I agree with most of it. His economic policy is a bit of a head scratcher, but a flat tax can work if implemented correctly. Surround him with quality advisers and he could be a great Pres or VP.
3) Ted Cruz - The second most conservative candidate behind Paul, but easily the most consistent. He is true to his ideology and a masterful speaker. Very articulate with his message much like Carson.
4) Rand Paul - The most conservative and ideological candidate. His engagement with Christie was great, and got the establishment to admit how far they are willing to go to circumvent the Bill of Rights in the name of "safety". His delivery was a bit shaky, much like his father, but overall still looking good.
5) Rest of the candidates - Standard. interchangeable Republican rhetoric.
6) Jeb Bush - Take a hike.
I like the idea of a flat tax, that moves up based on one's income level...
So it's flat at one rate for the poor. Then in the middle class it jumps up a but remains flat, until you are making more...
Call it an incremental flat tax...
Quote:I like the idea of a flat tax, that moves up based on one's income level...
So it's flat at one rate for the poor. Then in the middle class it jumps up a but remains flat, until you are making more...
Call it an incremental flat tax...
Lol.
With most flat tax proposals there is an increase in other tax streams, like sales and property tax. Obviously implementing a flat tax with the current tax code would be silly.
I was half joking about the "incremental flat tax"
But thinking about it, why not? What's so wrong with a progressive tax rate based on your net income?
As one gets more, they contribute a bit more. I'm not sure why that is such a bad thing.
Please, someone, enlighten me.
Quote:I was half joking about the "incremental flat tax"
But thinking about it, why not? What's so wrong with a progressive tax rate based on your net income?
As one gets more, they contribute a bit more. I'm not sure why that is such a bad thing.
Please, someone, enlighten me.
Soooooo, what we have now then?
Quote:I was half joking about the "incremental flat tax"
But thinking about it, why not? What's so wrong with a progressive tax rate based on your net income?
As one gets more, they contribute a bit more. I'm not sure why that is such a bad thing.
Please, someone, enlighten me.
If it is flat at 10% across the board and you make more you will pay more.
Rand Paul remains the only republican I can stand. Though I wish he had the cajones his father did. Of course if he did, he wouldn't have gotten the questions he did. They'd have stuck him with abortion and gay rights issues until the cows come home.
Quote:Post-debate rankings:
1) Donald Trump - Still a giant middle finger to the establishment and I love it. Simple, communicable message that can be understood by everyone. Could use a little more depth to his message, but not too much more. Maybe change up his delivery method a bit. Also, Fox hiding personal attacks behind the form of questions and giving loaded non-relevant questions was a bad move on their part. Personal attacks only make him stronger.
2) Ben Carson - This guy is extremely intelligent and methodical in the delivery of his message and I agree with most of it. His economic policy is a bit of a head scratcher, but a flat tax can work if implemented correctly. Surround him with quality advisers and he could be a great Pres or VP.
3) Ted Cruz - The second most conservative candidate behind Paul, but easily the most consistent. He is true to his ideology and a masterful speaker. Very articulate with his message much like Carson.
4) Rand Paul - The most conservative and ideological candidate. His engagement with Christie was great, and got the establishment to admit how far they are willing to go to circumvent the Bill of Rights in the name of "safety". His delivery was a bit shaky, much like his father, but overall still looking good.
5) Rest of the candidates - Standard. interchangeable Republican rhetoric.
6) Jeb Bush - Take a hike.
1)Trump, as usual, had nothing to offer but bluster and bombast. The Republicans think they have a problem attracting women now? Just wait. He blew his chance to say what he stands for (other than crony capitalism).
2) Ben Carson had a good last two questions. Otherwise he was fairly anonymous. Was he advocating tithing as a tax policy? Did I hear wrong?
3) Ted Cruz - was Ted Cruz. You know what you get with him.
4) Rand Paul / Chris Cristie - not sure if people know that Christie was a US Attorney during 9/11. He feels strongly about it. Depends where you stand re civil liberties v. active searching for terrorists.
5) I thought Kasich and Rubio stood out. Agree with him or not, Rubio is a terrific communicator. I think a ticket of he and Fiorina would scare the Democrats to death.
6) Scott Walker's answer re letting a woman die rather than permit an abortion was scary as hell. The GOP just keeps finding ways to turn off women.
7) Jeb Bush finally started talking about his success as Florida's governor. About time.
8) Huckabee had his moment. He's been here before and his performance showed.
Actually I thought the evening was more entertaining than I thought it would be. Some of it was tedious - you or I could have told you much of what each candidate would say. But all in all it was a decent introduction to what these guys are all about.
Quote:
2) Ben Carson had a good last two questions. Otherwise he was fairly anonymous. Was he advocating tithing as a tax policy? Did I hear wrong?
It was sort of a lead in to a flat tax proposition. I could understand what he was getting at, but I don't think it was the best way to explain it. The guy is very religious though, and much MUCH more genuine with his faith than other candidates, so him using the Bible as an analogy isn't that surprising. I could definitely see that being seen as a turn-off though.
Quote:Soooooo, what we have now then?
Lol, yeah. Just better, cuz I will fix it. (Channeling my inner trump)
Were the opening questions provided to the candidates ahead of time? It seemed like each one was answered as if they were prepared.
Quote:Were the opening questions provided to the candidates ahead of time? It seemed like each one was answered as if they were prepared.
It did feel like they had something prepared. Christie's dramatic finish of his first answer right as the bell rung drew a huge applause, and seemed almost too perfect. I imagine the candidates and their advisors pretty well knew what the likely questions they'd face were, they certainly knew the rules of the game, and they likely had been preparing and memorizing answers to those obvious questions for several days ahead of time.
Of course, Carly Fiorina's closing (or opening?) statement being left on a hotel printer and published online before the debate suggests that there was still quite a bit of work going on the day of.
Just had a friend of mine say with a straight face that after last night's debate, he's convinced that Republicans are only going farther and farther right, then used the ACA as an example of Democrats' willingness to compromise. His next sentence was, "That's why I'm voting for Bernie Sanders."
.gif "Laughing")