Quote:There's a very easy way to eliminate abortion all together. I didn't sleep with anyone until I was married. Someone else can't do the same?
Oh that's the dirty word... Abstinance. No, it's the REALLY dirty word. Responsibility.
But you have to acknowledge the fact that kids are going to be kids right?
Well when you turn over children to their hormones and physical desires what's the reasonable expectation that they are going to be responsibly irresponsible?
I am not trying to be flippant, but frankly there is a condom dispensary in most gas stations I have been in. What's it cost 75 cents? At a certain point when are we going to stand up and say as a society that if a guy can't either a. marry you first or b. afford the 75 cents to buy a condom that he's not worth a young lady's time?
More importantly, abortion is fundamentally an abdication of male responsibility. For the most part of the under privileged you have guys not stepping up to the plate saying hey "no matter what happens i'm here ill die before I let you and my child go hungry!" that's not just the answer to abortion but poverty in general.
Abstinence is a utopian ideal that has never ever been achieved in all of human history. So we will continue to have abortions, legal or illegal, until we stop having unwanted pregnancies.
As much as I'm against socialized anything especially medicine I'm all for funding free birth control if we can stop abortions after the first trimester.
While I personally find all abortion morally horrible id be happy if we could at least limit them to the first trimester. After that is when I really have a hard time not considering it a human life.
Quote:As much as I'm against socialized anything especially medicine I'm all for funding free birth control if we can stop abortions after the first trimester.
While I personally find all abortion morally horrible id be happy if we could at least limit them to the first trimester. After that is when I really have a hard time not considering it a human life.
I thought we agreed that there is nothing immoral about terminating an ectopic, non-viable, pregnancy....
Quote:As much as I'm against socialized anything especially medicine I'm all for funding free birth control if we can stop abortions after the first trimester.
While I personally find all abortion morally horrible id be happy if we could at least limit them to the first trimester. After that is when I really have a hard time not considering it a human life.
Despite how anti-abortionists want to brand the topic, the concept of abortion isn't one pro-choicer's take flippantly. An abortion, is the termination of a potential person. It's not something that should be taken lightly. It's been a while since I've done the research, but I think around 16 to 20 weeks should be some sort of cut off area--except for extreme circumstance (rape/incest/harm to mother).
I haven't seen these PP videos, but I've heard them described by republicans on Fox and Morning Joe. Maybe I'm cynical, but the outrage I've heard from pundits seems too rehersed. Yeah, abortion isn't a nice procedure. They act like they've never thought about how an abortion works. The other thing is that they are going after PP as this evil organization. They ignore all the benefits that PP has on the society.
I find it odd that those on the Pro-Choice side can see the concerns on the Anti-Abortion side, but it seems republicans just cannot bear to even consider an opposing viewpoint. They just stick their fingers in their ears and just keep saying their position, over and over and over again. (present company excluded, of course).
Defunding PP is dumb, because PP get's private funding for the abortions they conduct. Why defund the benefits of PP because you are anti-abortion? It's already against the law to fund any abortion with federal money!
Quote:Defunding PP is dumb, because PP get's private funding for the abortions they conduct. Why defund the benefits of PP because you are anti-abortion? It's already against the law to fund any abortion with federal money!
It is just an attempt to drum up the base. And fringe candidates like Ted Cruz can say, "see what I did".
Quote:Despite how anti-abortionists want to brand the topic, the concept of abortion isn't one pro-choicer's take flippantly. An abortion, is the termination of a potential person. It's not something that should be taken lightly. It's been a while since I've done the research, but I think around 16 to 20 weeks should be some sort of cut off area--except for extreme circumstance (rape/incest/harm to mother).
I haven't seen these PP videos, but I've heard them described by republicans on Fox and Morning Joe. Maybe I'm cynical, but the outrage I've heard from pundits seems too rehersed. Yeah, abortion isn't a nice procedure. They act like they've never thought about how an abortion works. The other thing is that they are going after PP as this evil organization. They ignore all the benefits that PP has on the society.
I find it odd that those on the Pro-Choice side can see the concerns on the Anti-Abortion side, but it seems republicans just cannot bear to even consider an opposing viewpoint. They just stick their fingers in their ears and just keep saying their position, over and over and over again. (present company excluded, of course).
Defunding PP is dumb, because PP get's private funding for the abortions they conduct. Why defund the benefits of PP because you are anti-abortion? It's already against the law to fund any abortion with federal money!
I agree with all of this, but to be fair the Left is just as guilty as the "sticking their fingers in their ears and just keep saying their position" on other topics. I tend to hover down the middle and agree with the Left on some issues and the right on others, and both sides are similar in that aspect.
Quote:Mussolini got the trains running on time.
In any case this is a poor argument. PP could easily spin off their abortion business to a separate entity. After all, it's only 3% of their business. They choose to continue in the abortion business. As long as they make that choice they should never receive tax dollars. And don't give me the lame claim that the funds aren't used for abortions. The money given to PP goes into a big pot. Some of that pot is used to pay abortion doctors.
They could spin it off. It wouldn't change the vitriol, just make that entity even more vulnerable to political attacks. Keeping it within the unitary group keeps that segment of business protected.
And what does Mussolini have to do with it? I don't follow...
Lastly, your lack of trust is all well expected from you... but do you honestly believe your party isn't dying to find pp misappropriating funds??? Come on man, think your conspiracy theories through...
Quote:So PP needs to stay in the abortion business to protect the abortion business which makes up 3% of their business? I'm pretty sure there are other places that only perform abortions. They haven't been closed down.
My point with Mussolini was that a person who does evil things should not be protected based on the good he does, and that that's a bad argument.
And what's my party?
Right, because there is so much competition in the abortion business. They are like on every street corner, huh? Pp is one of a very few entities that provide that service. It's not like companies are chomping at the bit to provide that service. Come on, you can do better than that...
I understand you Mussolini argument now, but it's based on you total moral objection to abortions. Someone that has a different view of abortions would look at your opinion differently.
I'm speaking of republicans. If there was any sort of misappropriation, pp would already be shut down...
Quote:So PP needs to stay in the abortion business to protect the abortion business which makes up 3% of their business? I'm pretty sure there are other places that only perform abortions. They haven't been closed down.
My point with Mussolini was that a person who does evil things should not be protected based on the good he does, and that that's a bad argument.
And what's my party?
In alot of areas, Planned Parenthood is the only place performing abortions.
As for them "getting out of the business", why should they?
There is no monopoly by pp! You don't understand how monopolies work...
Anyone can jump into the abortion business if they wanted to. But Nobody wants to!
Pp is providing a service that all of us are uncomfortable with, but many of us see as beneficial to the overall good of the society.
Are you ignoring my point regarding the federal funding? You cannot prove that pp is using federal funds to perform abortions.
But that is one of your rationales for getting rid of it. You know, your argument isn't valid, but you're ignoring the fact that you have no proof of your false accusation in order to protect your argument. It's sad that you can't admit when are in the wrong.
Quote:1. But that's only because PP has a local monopoly on the abortion business. If PP got out of the abortion business then others would quickly fill the void.
2. Because they are receiving federal tax dollars. If the argument is that the other services they perform are important, that they constitute 97% of their business, and that's why PP should continue receiving federal funds, it would be logical to just eliminate that 3% of the business that makes half the population outraged.
It's like a restaurant claiming that there should be no problem since lion meat is only 3% of their fare, and the other 97% is outstanding.
Nice try. Or keep the 3% of the business that does not make half the population outraged.
Quote:1. But that's only because PP has a local monopoly on the abortion business. If PP got out of the abortion business then others would quickly fill the void.
2. Because they are receiving federal tax dollars. If the argument is that the other services they perform are important, that they constitute 97% of their business, and that's why PP should continue receiving federal funds, it would be logical to just eliminate that 3% of the business that makes half the population outraged.
It's like a restaurant claiming that there should be no problem since lion meat is only 3% of their fare, and the other 97% is outstanding.
This is not directed at you but rather in general.
People would be more sympathetic to the outrage people have over abortion if the same people appeared to not care less about these babies once they are finally born.
I.E. You better have that baby. Oh you can't take care of that baby? You should not have had that baby you loser/moocher, enjoy your punishment!
Quote:This is not directed at you but rather in general.
People would be more sympathetic to the outrage people have over abortion if the same people appeared to not care less about these babies once they are finally born.
I.E. You better have that baby. Oh you can't take care of that baby? You should not have had that baby you loser/moocher, enjoy your punishment!
You'll just get calls for abstinence being the answer. Of course abstinence isn't the answer when it comes to gun ownership....
Quote:Despite how anti-abortionists want to brand the topic, the concept of abortion isn't one pro-choicer's take flippantly. An abortion, is the termination of a potential person. It's not something that should be taken lightly. It's been a while since I've done the research, but I think around 16 to 20 weeks should be some sort of cut off area--except for extreme circumstance (rape/incest/harm to mother).
I haven't seen these PP videos, but I've heard them described by republicans on Fox and Morning Joe. Maybe I'm cynical, but the outrage I've heard from pundits seems too rehersed. Yeah, abortion isn't a nice procedure. They act like they've never thought about how an abortion works. The other thing is that they are going after PP as this evil organization. They ignore all the benefits that PP has on the society.
I find it odd that those on the Pro-Choice side can see the concerns on the Anti-Abortion side, but it seems republicans just cannot bear to even consider an opposing viewpoint. They just stick their fingers in their ears and just keep saying their position, over and over and over again. (present company excluded, of course).
Defunding PP is dumb, because PP get's private funding for the abortions they conduct. Why defund the benefits of PP because you are anti-abortion? It's already against the law to fund any abortion with federal money!
1.) in all this time that we have been talking about this you haven't seen one of the videos? that's pretty telling.
2.) The videos clearly demonstrate that Planned parenthood is in open violation of Federal law regarding how abortions are to be conducted and how the human remains are to be treated. This isn't about pro choice vs. pro life. This is about whether or not we should continue public funding of a criminal enterprise.
All the laws. Some of then more than once... lol