Quote:I've grown up around that flag and I'm not a pure white, the people that I know that fly that flag are not white supremacist. What I've known it to represent was a point in time where one group stood up to an over bearing federal government. We can argue who was right or who was wrong all day but one group said enough were evoking our right to opt out. They fought the most tyrannical president this nation has ever seen. Even in defeat there is much to learn about that group who fought back.
For a lot of folks, it's no different than the Gadsden Flag. That's my point. People only want to focus on one aspect. Regardless of the fact that it's offensive, it IS a part of the fabric of this nation and who we are today.
If we eliminated everything that offended people from the public square, these same folks would simply find new targets to get angry over.
Quote:Or over monuments dedicated to the war.
People have attached one meaning to the flag, but there was much more to it than just slavery. Unfortunately, in the world of political correctness, we're only allowed to fixate on those things that are most offensive.
I'd be fine with that as well. And you are correct in that some are using whatever piece fits a certain agenda. The flag has many different meanings.
I went to college in Charleston. I went to a school where the confederate flag has been a huge symbol. There are grads at odds on what to do with them on campus. It's pretty sad to watch the back and forth actually.
Quote:For a lot of folks, it's no different than the Gadsden Flag. That's my point. People only want to focus on one aspect. Regardless of the fact that it's offensive, it IS a part of the fabric of this nation and who we are today.
If we eliminated everything that offended people from the public square, these same folks would simply find new targets to get angry over.
I think it's mostly fear that drives them. Someone who has only seen a confederate flag on a pickup or on tv and never shared a drink with them wouldn't understand. They took in this Spanish/Canadian immigrant so don't tell me they're all racist.
That said i fly the American flag with the don't tread on me flag on my property. I'm not a confederate nor do I have any heritage to them but I have a deep respect for them.
Like I said I personally believe Lincoln to be one of the worse presidents ever and as close to a tyrannical dictator we've had.
The Confederate flag represents treason and oppression. It has a place in a historical context, but not as part of state flags or flying over or near government buildings.
Quote:I think it's mostly fear that drives them. Someone who has only seen a confederate flag on a pickup or on tv and never shared a drink with them wouldn't understand. They took in this Spanish/Canadian immigrant so don't tell me they're all racist.
That said i fly the American flag with the don't tread on me flag on my property. I'm not a confederate nor do I have any heritage to them but I have a deep respect for them.
Like I said I personally believe Lincoln to be one of the worse presidents ever and as close to a tyrannical dictator we've had.
I'm sure fear is a motivation for some, but I think it's mostly about ignorance or a lack of proper education on the subject. I completely understand people being offended if they only want to fixate on the slavery issue. But, if that's the only reason they're so vocally opposed to flying a flag, I don't see that as cause to placate them. If it's about being offended, that's not enough. Many of the same people who are offended by the Confederate flag have been known to burn the American flag because they find that offensive Where do we stop?
Quote:The Confederate flag represents treason and oppression. It has a place in a historical context, but not as part of state flags or flying over or near government buildings.
There are many who would argue that the stars and stripes represents oppression and intimidation around the globe. Should we start demanding that it be removed from any government facilities too?
Seriously, it's still just a flag. The symbolism is important for historical perspective, but there's more to it than just treason and oppression. If we're going to start requiring that any display be limited to only those things that people won't find offensive, we'll be flying a surrender flag. Even then, someone will be offended because it's a white flag.
Quote:There are many who would argue that the stars and stripes represents oppression and intimidation around the globe. Should we start demanding that it be removed from any government facilities too?
Seriously, it's still just a flag. The symbolism is important for historical perspective, but there's more to it than just treason and oppression. If we're going to start requiring that any display be limited to only those things that people won't find offensive, we'll be flying a surrender flag. Even then, someone will be offended because it's a white flag.
There is a difference between flying a flag symbolizing a lost, misguided cause and flying our national flag. I understand there are more important issues at hand, but surely you might understand the difference in your (and my) perspective as compared to those whose ancestors suffered under oppression during the time of the Confederacy.
Quote:There is a difference between flying a flag symbolizing a lost, misguided cause and flying our national flag. I understand there are more important issues at hand, but surely you might understand the difference in your (and my) perspective as compared to those whose ancestors suffered under oppression during the time of the Confederacy.
You and I may understand the difference, but in my opinion (and I'm not supporting the display of the Confederate flag because I'm some southern pride guy. I've never owned anything that had the flag on it other than possibly a Lynyrd Skynyrd album), this is completely blown out of proportion because people find it offensive. Nothing more. That being the case, there are clearly those who find the American flag offensive. We've seen people involved in a viral movement where they're stomping on or burning the American flag, and this isn't from the Middle East or some foreign land. That's here at home. So, today it's the Confederate flag. Tomorrow, it's the Stars and Stripes.
Much of that oppression and suffering that the ancestors suffered in this country was done under the same flag we fly today as the symbol of America. Not all oppression and suffering occurred exclusively in the south, or in Confederate states. So, again, where's the line? Because if they succeed in eradicating one flag from the landscape of this country, the next one is going to be the new target. If you think otherwise, you're being awfully naive.
Quote:Many of the same people who are offended by the Confederate flag have been known to burn the American flag because they find that offensive
Many of the same people? Do you have names?
Quote:For a lot of folks, it's no different than the Gadsden Flag. That's my point. People only want to focus on one aspect. Regardless of the fact that it's offensive, it IS a part of the fabric of this nation and who we are today.
If we eliminated everything that offended people from the public square, these same folks would simply find new targets to get angry over.
I guess you can wave the Confederate flag once you put down your British one, huh?
Why would you wave the flag of the losing side of a civil war? I find it unpatriotic up there with burning the U.S. Flag.
Quote:Many of the same people? Do you have names?
That's a really silly question. If you disagree, say so. We'll just ignore the numerous videos posted by people who were taking part in a "challenge" who trampled and defaced the flag. That obviously didn't happen in your world unless I produce names.
Quote:I guess you can wave the Confederate flag once you put down your British one, huh?
Why would you wave the flag of the losing side of a civil war? I find it unpatriotic up there with burning the U.S. Flag.
Once again, proving my point that you are not really ranked among the thinkers on this board. Leave clever to those who can.
In both instances, people are entitled to do as they please. That pesky document you swore to uphold when you were trying to qualify for the GI Bill say so.
Quote:That's a really silly question. If you disagree, say so. We'll just ignore the numerous videos posted by people who were taking part in a "challenge" who trampled and defaced the flag. That obviously didn't happen in your world unless I produce names.
You are the one that said "Many of the same people who are offended by the Confederate flag have been known to burn the American flag because they find that offensive". So obviously you must know of examples. I watched the news and saw Democratic and Republican leadership at both the local, state and national level at a press conference calling for the State legislature to remove the flag. Looks like recent events are making this a bipartisan issue.
![[Image: SCCOL201-622_2015_161404_hd.jpg]](http://www.news1130.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/9/2015/06/22/SCCOL201-622_2015_161404_hd.jpg)
Quote:That's not really new, there was plenty of flag burning during Vietnam War protests in the 60s and 70s. War tends to stir emotions.
I'm trying to think of any example in world history where the flag of a group attempting to rebel against a sitting government is still flown after the insurrection has been defeated.
The current discussion is not about eradication of the flag, it is about removing it as a symbol associated with government institutions.
The situation with the Confederate flag is stirred by nothing more than emotions. It's no different.
It's irrelevant what has happened elsewhere. In SC, the flag is flown over a monument dedicated to Confederate soldiers on the capitol grounds. Considering what the monument is, the flag is an appropriate display regardless of how offensive it may be to some. If the flag is offensive there, then so would the very existence of a monument dedicated to the dead soldiers, so then what? Should SC dig them all up and move them somewhere that is less offensive? At some point there's a line. Where would you estimate that is?
Every state except for one that had the Confederate Battle Flag included in their state flags has removed it. Odds are the last holdout will do so in the not too distant future. So, the Confederate flag isn't a symbol associated with government institutions. It's an historic symbol being associated with those individuals who died for the Confederacy in the Civil War. That's not some sort of endorsement by government. It's simply recognition that the history does indeed exist.
If it's a concern about flags flying over government facilities, the American flag offends many people. It should be taken down. I live in Florida. The state flag has native Americans on it. Considering their plight in American history, and because I have Indian heritage, should I demand that the flag be changed because my ancestors were murdered and robbed of their rights by the evil white man even before slavery became a scar from which this nation has still not fully recovered?
Quote:You are the one that said "Many of the same people who are offended by the Confederate flag have been known to burn the American flag because they find that offensive". So obviously you must know of examples. I watched the news and saw Democratic and Republican leadership at both the local, state and national level at a press conference calling for the State legislature to remove the flag. Looks like recent events are making this a bipartisan issue.
So, because it's a "bipartisan issue" that makes it correct?
I think it's just the politically expedient thing to do, but hey, to each his own.
Quote:I think it's mostly fear that drives them. Someone who has only seen a confederate flag on a pickup or on tv and never shared a drink with them wouldn't understand. They took in this Spanish/Canadian immigrant so don't tell me they're all racist.
That said i fly the American flag with the don't tread on me flag on my property. I'm not a confederate nor do I have any heritage to them but I have a deep respect for them.
Like I said I personally believe Lincoln to be one of the worse presidents ever and as close to a tyrannical dictator we've had.
The dude who fought to get rid of slavery one of the worst presidents ever. Holy cow, this forum is something else.
So the Nazi flag should be okay to fly in Germany because people died fighting under it? Man people are so dumb.
If i was from the south I would want to distance myself as far as I could from the ancestors who tried to break away from the North because they wanted to keep slavery, but thats just me I guess.
Quote:So the Nazi flag should be okay to fly in Germany because people died fighting under it? Man people are so dumb.
This isn't Germany. Straw man.
Quote:If i was from the south I would want to distance myself as far as I could from the ancestors who tried to break away from the North because they wanted to keep slavery, but thats just me I guess.
Well, considering there were a large number of slave owners both before and after the Civil War who were actually in the north, you might want to distance yourself from them as well, right?
Quote:Sears and eBay also stopping sales of items containing the Confederate flag.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/c...index.html
That's their prerogative as private companies. It has nothing to do with this discussion other than they're doing the politically correct pandering that usually results from instances like this.
Quote:This isn't Germany. Straw man.
Well, considering there were a large number of slave owners both before and after the Civil War who were actually in the north, you might want to distance yourself from them as well, right?
Lol @ straw man. You are talking about digging up corpses, you hypocrite.
Get over yourself and your stupid flag. It shouldn't be flown by any state of this union. It represents treason and an ugly past. Quite frankly I'd question the allegiance of any one shilling for it. And if you don't like America then you can GET OUT!