New thread was warranted after signing the deal stop these ridiculously lomg threads. It is silly.

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New thread was warranted after signing the deal stop these ridiculously lomg threads.  It is silly.

Start one?

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

New thread was warranted after signing the deal stop these ridiculously lomg threads.  It is silly.

I love when people want to run the board.

Why don't you volunteer to become a moderator?

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Good QB with much untapped potential. I doubt Tannehill on this team last year could win 9 but even if you assume he could, that would be if everything went right for him. Lawrence’s upside is he’ll be among the top 2 or 3 QBs in the league.

I am talking about the current Jags roster and coaching staff, which I do have more confidence in than some here.

I am saying that this team is good enough to have a  winning record with a QB lesser than Lawrence. Ok, you think Tannehill sucks? Then we will go with Carson Wentz. The point is that it's time for this team to become better than just playoff contenders. How 'bout World Championship contenders. With a quality coaching staff, a good roster, and a "franchise" QB, just a 9 win season would be a failure in my opinion

How many players aside from Trevor (and I'm not saying he is, just saying disregard the QB position) on last season's team would you place among the top five at their position? 

There was one guy in the whole 21 non QB positions that clearly is, and that's Josh Allen. 

It's possible to argue Evan Engram is also top five at his position, though before he got to have Trevor throwing to him he was thought of as a bust.

Anyone else? 

So one definitely and one maybe.

If there's a uniform distribution of them in the league then an average roster should have 3 to 4 guys that are top five in the league at their position including QB. Is Trevor a top five player at his position then arguable the Jaguars are on the lower cusp, if not then they've got a below average number of impact guys. If you don't believe Engram is top five then why does he look like such a great player with Trevor throwing to him instead of Daniel Jones? 

Go to the top ten at their position and you can probably argue for oluokun and Kirk joining, but that gives the team 4 top ten talents when the average should be 7.

How was Trevor getting so much production and so many wins against a tough schedule without much impact talent surrounding him if he's the problem?

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I laugh at the idea that Trevor is a problem. Watch older football and just the history of this franchise. Get some perspective. I blame modern bad ideas and the unrealistic expectations. You know it is hard to win a championship.

Brady and Mahomes are not the norm. We are just spoiled to witness then play. Enjoy Trevor for what he does not what you think he should do. The AFC is loaded with competition.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

I am talking about the current Jags roster and coaching staff, which I do have more confidence in than some here.

I am saying that this team is good enough to have a  winning record with a QB lesser than Lawrence. Ok, you think Tannehill sucks? Then we will go with Carson Wentz. The point is that it's time for this team to become better than just playoff contenders. How 'bout World Championship contenders. With a quality coaching staff, a good roster, and a "franchise" QB, just a 9 win season would be a failure in my opinion

if he's the problem?

Who said Trevor Lawrence is the problem? Yes, I feel a franchise QB is what takes a good team to the level of being an actual contender for a Lombardi every year. I am saying it is time for Trevor to take this team to that level if he is indeed a franchise QB.

I'm not going to play your game of who YOU think are the top 5 players at each position in the NFL, and then base the overall quality of the Jaguars roster off whether they have a certain number of players YOU personally view as elite.

When I look at a roster, I look at the overall roster and depth at each position. Look at KC, good roster, good depth. Maybe you think they have several elite players at several positions. Name their multiple elite WRs. Name their multiple elite players on defense. What they do have is a good roster overall, a good coaching staff, and a franchise QB.

Look at Green Bay, they have a very good roster, good depth, but how many players do you consider "Top 5 at their position" on the Packers roster? What they do have is a good coaching staff, along with that overall good roster, and a QB they feel is their franchise QB. They are real close to finalizing a deal to pay him like one.

The Jags have a overall good roster, they have a good coaching staff, they have a franchise QB. Yes, this season Trevor needs to take a good team, that is well coached, and get them over the hump to being true contenders for a Lombardi. That is what franchise QBs do.

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if he's the problem?

Who said Trevor Lawrence is the problem? Yes, I feel a franchise QB is what takes a good team to the level of being an actual contender for a Lombardi every year. I am saying it is time for Trevor to take this team to that level if he is indeed a franchise QB.

I'm not going to play your game of who YOU think are the top 5 players at each position in the NFL, and then base the overall quality of the Jaguars roster off whether they have a certain number of players YOU personally view as elite.

When I look at a roster, I look at the overall roster and depth at each position. Look at KC, good roster, good depth. Maybe you think they have several elite players at several positions. Name their multiple elite WRs. Name their multiple elite players on defense. What they do have is a good roster overall, a good coaching staff, and a franchise QB.

Look at Green Bay, they have a very good roster, good depth, but how many players do you consider "Top 5 at their position" on the Packers roster? What they do have is a good coaching staff, along with that overall good roster, and a QB they feel is their franchise QB. They are real close to finalizing a deal to pay him like one.

The Jags have a overall good roster, they have a good coaching staff, they have a franchise QB. Yes, this season Trevor needs to take a good team, that is well coached, and get them over the hump to being true contenders for a Lombardi. That is what franchise QBs do.

I asked specific questions of you, instead of writing five paragraphs to say, "You're right, and I can't argue against it," you could have just said that.

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I love this team, but we have to admit that the talent around Lawrence hasn’t been top anything until recently? We are hoping our offense line can improve from the bottom ranked to near the top. The drafting has been suspect. All that being the case, it looks like things are coming together for a good year in 24. Hopefully

I think Herbert and Trevor are in a similar tier with Burrow.

Mahomes

Allen

Trevor 
Herbert
Burrow

My top 10 NFL QBs:

Mahomes
Allen
Jackson
Burrow
Herbert
Love
Stroud
Rodgers
Hurts
Stafford

Honorable mentions: Prescott, Lawrence, Purdy

Trevor is right there, he just has to show a little more. It's no knock to be in a group with Brock Purdy and Dak Prescott. All 3 are very good QBs.

Why do think Rodgers will still be so good? He was very mid his last season in GB, and is now off 1 year absence due to injury. Who is to say he will even be an average QB like that last year in QB without Davante?

Also did Love in his 2024 season show you more than Trevor in 2023? It was basically the same season for both guys. Some differences due to scheme, Love having more deep threats, and Trevor's horrendous 1st half vs the Chargers. But not that different.

Also, why so confident about Hurts? He also only has had 1 good season, and most of his value is juiced by his rushing utility.

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My top 10 NFL QBs:

Mahomes
Allen
Jackson
Burrow
Herbert
Love
Stroud
Rodgers
Hurts
Stafford

Honorable mentions: Prescott, Lawrence, Purdy

Trevor is right there, he just has to show a little more. It's no knock to be in a group with Brock Purdy and Dak Prescott. All 3 are very good QBs.

Why do think Rodgers will still be so good? He was very mid his last season in GB, and is now off 1 year absence due to injury. Who is to say he will even be an average QB like that last year in QB without Davante?

Also did Love in his 2024 season show you more than Trevor in 2023? It was basically the same season for both guys. Some differences due to scheme, Love having more deep threats, and Trevor's horrendous 1st half vs the Chargers. But not that different.

Also, why so confident about Hurts? He also only has had 1 good season, and most of his value is juiced by his rushing utility.

Aaron Rodgers played with a broken thumb for most of his last season in Green Bay. Sorry, I'm not putting Trevor above Aaron Rodgers at this point. Aaron will be under huge pressure to perform this season. We will see what happens. Aaron has always played at his best when he has a chip on his shoulder, and he is trying to prove people wrong.

Jordan Love was the best QB in football the second half of last season. And he wasn't that bad in the first half of the season. QB rating over 109 in the first 4 games. It was his first year starting. It took a few weeks for him to really find his footing, but once he did, he showed greatness. The sky is the limit for him.

Jalen Hurts had more passing yards and TDs in 2023 than he did in 2022. Turnovers were the problem last year. But he is still always a dual threat and one of the more talented QBs in the game.

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When stats say he's top 5, the stat boys will say he finally arrived. That's how this works. Don't trust your lying eyes.

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I laugh at the idea that Trevor is a problem. Watch older football and just the history of this franchise. Get some perspective. I blame modern bad ideas and the unrealistic expectations. You know it is hard to win a championship.

Brady and Mahomes are not the norm. We are just spoiled to witness then play. Enjoy Trevor for what he does not what you think he should do. The AFC is loaded with competition.

You can just say you blame fantasy football (which I play) and I would agree.  Fantasy has people focused almost exclusively on stats because that's all that matters in that realm.  They think that because player x didn't contribute to them competing or winning a fantasy championship, he's clearly not as good as player y who did.  It's horse [BLEEP].

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Why do think Rodgers will still be so good? He was very mid his last season in GB, and is now off 1 year absence due to injury. Who is to say he will even be an average QB like that last year in QB without Davante?

Also did Love in his 2024 season show you more than Trevor in 2023? It was basically the same season for both guys. Some differences due to scheme, Love having more deep threats, and Trevor's horrendous 1st half vs the Chargers. But not that different.

Also, why so confident about Hurts? He also only has had 1 good season, and most of his value is juiced by his rushing utility.

Aaron Rodgers played with a broken thumb for most of his last season in Green Bay. Sorry, I'm not putting Trevor above Aaron Rodgers at this point. Aaron will be under huge pressure to perform this season. We will see what happens. Aaron has always played at his best when he has a chip on his shoulder, and he is trying to prove people wrong.  Green Bay offensive line rating at the end of 2022 3rd. (Jags were 19th)

Jordan Love was the best QB in football the second half of last season. And he wasn't that bad in the first half of the season. QB rating over 109 in the first 4 games. It was his first year starting. It took a few weeks for him to really find his footing, but once he did, he showed greatness. The sky is the limit for him.  Green Bay offensive line rating at the end of 2023 11th. (Jags were 27th)

Jalen Hurts had more passing yards and TDs in 2023 than he did in 2022. Turnovers were the problem last year. But he is still always a dual threat and one of the more talented QBs in the game.  Eagles offensive line rating 2023  #1, 2022 #1

Sometime people forget this is a team sport and different position groups have an effect. We can only wonder how different QB's would do with lesser offensive lines. I am hoping with the off season we have had, TL gets a better line this year. Last year's line was actually comical. We will see as that is why they play the games an don't just let the talking heads decide.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

New thread was warranted after signing the deal stop these ridiculously lomg threads.  It is silly.

Start one?

Wouldnt it just get merged into this one?  216 pages just seems excessive to me but whatever.

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Good QB with much untapped potential. I doubt Tannehill on this team last year could win 9 but even if you assume he could, that would be if everything went right for him. Lawrence’s upside is he’ll be among the top 2 or 3 QBs in the league.

I am talking about the current Jags roster and coaching staff, which I do have more confidence in than some here.

I am saying that this team is good enough to have a  winning record with a QB lesser than Lawrence. Ok, you think Tannehill sucks? Then we will go with Carson Wentz. The point is that it's time for this team to become better than just playoff contenders. How 'bout World Championship contenders. With a quality coaching staff, a good roster, and a "franchise" QB, just a 9 win season would be a failure in my opinion

We'll do better than 9 wins this year, barring something totally unexpected. Everyone's picking the tinhorns to win the division which is fair I guess given what happened last year but it'll be tough for that to happen with the level of talent on the Jags and the caliber of QB we have. You have to throw out his rookie season due to the dysfunction on the coaching staff which was historic in scope. Last year was effectively his 2nd year and thanks in part to some injuries, he had a major slump (as did the rest of the team) in the second half of the season. It wasn't all injuries, some of it was his decision making but he's going to be 24 this year when the season starts, just coming into his own. It'll become clear that he's not Tannehill or Wentz and by the time the season's done, they'll be talking about him in the same conversations as Allen and Burrow.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/statu...Ie5OPeqkhg

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Lawrence will finish top eight this year in QB rankings between QBR, TD's, rushing and completion percentage.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/statu...Ie5OPeqkhg

It's because he throws frozen ropes. He'll be fine in year four. I think this is the season he soldifies his elite status for good.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Start one?

Wouldnt it just get merged into this one?  216 pages just seems excessive to me but whatever.

Here you go: https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=39119

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Lawrence will finish top eight this year in QB rankings between QBR, TD's, rushing and completion percentage.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/statu...Ie5OPeqkhg

It's because he throws frozen ropes. He'll be fine in year four. I think this is the season he soldifies his elite status for good.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-tu...since-2021

Depends where and how you pull your data from, I suppose.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

Wouldnt it just get merged into this one?  216 pages just seems excessive to me but whatever.

Here you go: https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=39119

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Lawrence will finish top eight this year in QB rankings between QBR, TD's, rushing and completion percentage.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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It's because he throws frozen ropes. He'll be fine in year four. I think this is the season he soldifies his elite status for good.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-tu...since-2021

Depends where and how you pull your data from, I suppose.

LOL

READ dumb [BLEEP] 

You're quoting a different stat 

Turnovers don't eqaul INTs snd 2021 doesn't equal 2022 , you troll knob

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"troll knob" 

Nyuk,nyuk,nyuk.

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Here you go: https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=39119

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https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-tu...since-2021

Depends where and how you pull your data from, I suppose.

LOL

READ dumb [BLEEP] 

You're quoting a different stat 

Turnovers don't eqaul INTs snd 2021 doesn't equal 2022 , you troll knob

Oh here we go again...

If you're going to add a tweet saying that Trevor "[...]was the toughest QB in the conference to pick off in 2022." and you don't see the relevance of the fact that he's turned the ball over more than anyone since he's been in the league.  I don't know what to tell you.

Interceptions make up the vast majority of turnovers in the league for QBs, and the stat I posted includes 2022 in his three years of playing.  Doug Pederson just said (at the end 2023) this is where Lawrence has to get better. “It's the biggest thing that he has to focus on moving forward,” Pederson said, via ESPN. “We just can't have this amount of turnovers."

Hehe, I admit that "troll knob" is pretty funny though.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

LOL

READ dumb [BLEEP] 

You're quoting a different stat 

“We just can't have this amount of turnovers."

Yeah, the over 40 picks in 3 years, including 5 in the playoffs, is concerning, but I actually have more of a problem with the 21 fumbles lost. The high amount of turnovers definitely needs to stop. Turnovers happen for all QBs, but it can't be at an alarming rate.

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