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Quote:I re-watched the game this afternoon. As I expected, Joeckel didn't have one of his better games. I think the holding call before the half was just a really bad call by the ref. With that said, he looked a little tentative at times, he gave up a couple of sacks that I saw and got knocked off the blocks on two running plays. While I have to laugh at the people who think he's garbage, I have to agree that he's not close to playing up to his draft position. A game like this makes you understand the hyperbole of the less objective fans, but he's hardly the worst lineman ever. I think his worst sin for some people is that he's not Boselli. I am starting to agree that he may *never* live up to his draft position though which is unfortunate but that's how it goes sometimes.
Moreso the expectation (which is ridiculously high) of "next Boselli", I'm not even sure Luke has exceeded the standard of the guy he replaced. Right now, he's not even Monroe.
Quote:Moreso the expectation (which is ridiculously high) of "next Boselli", I'm not even sure Luke has exceeded the standard of the guy he replaced. Right now, he's not even Monroe.
it did take Monroe a good 3 years to get to his peak. But he was also facing Dwight Freeney in his prime.
Quote:it did take Monroe a good 3 years to get to his peak. But he was also facing Dwight Freeney in his prime.
Yes it did. And right now, Luke appears to be on the same timetable (if he gets there). The thing with Eugene is that he struggled with quick pass rushers, but he held his own, even dominate the big/strong ends like Watt, Mario Williams, Allen. Even his first year, he was able to do that. Eugene was pretty powerful.
Right now? Luke struggles against quick rushers AND gets bulldozed by strong ends. He's pretty average.
Quote:Yes it did. And right now, Luke appears to be on the same timetable (if he gets there). The thing with Eugene is that he struggled with quick pass rushers, but he held his own, even dominate the big/strong ends like Watt, Mario Williams, Allen. Even his first year, he was able to do that. Eugene was pretty powerful.
Right now? Luke struggles against quick rushers AND gets bulldozed by strong ends. He's pretty average.
Don't quote me on this, but wasn't Joeckel billed as a "technician" coming out of college? When I read/hear that about an athlete (wrestlers aside), I think of a Sean Considine-type. Someone who knows what they should be doing almost without question but their body doesn't necessarily have the ability to fully execute what their mind tells them they need to do.
If so, what Luke needs is strength and agility training. Then again, I could be off in Bizarro world again making random stuff up...as I'm prone to do at times.
weat:
Quote:Don't quote me on this, but wasn't Joeckel billed as a "technician" coming out of college? When I read/hear that about an athlete (wrestlers aside), I think of a Sean Considine-type. Someone who knows what they should be doing almost without question but their body doesn't necessarily have the ability to fully execute what their mind tells them they need to do.
I would expect better than "backup safety who runs like he's wearing cement shoes" comparisons for the second overall pick.
Joeckel needs some serious competition next year. At this point, he just doesn't get it.
Quote:it did take Monroe a good 3 years to get to his peak. But he was also facing Dwight Freeney in his prime.
JPP is still pretty darn good.
Quote:JPP is still pretty darn good.
the other guy he gave up a sack to is not
Man he needs to get stronger
It sure seems as though he doesn't have a enough sand in his pants. He doesn't anchor well at all so he gets bull rushed to easily.
That being said I think the fact that the team as a whole is performing so poorly is compounding the criticism for Joeckel. I remember Monroe getting abused early in his career and not just by the Freeney's and Mathis' of the world.
I believe Joeckel will get better and I just hope he improves enough to be a good starting LT. I'm not a guy who judges a player by where they were drafted, they have no power in where they go. He difinitely needs to get stronger and improve his all around game.
Dude was about as useful as a traffic cone out there on Sunday. Hopefully he becomes good someday but right now he is a weapons-grade scrub.
he's the worst offensive lineman in history
He blocked for Manzeil who was an escape artist, because Joeckle couldn't block.
Quote:He blocked for Manzeil who was an escape artist, because Joeckle couldn't block.
Manziel had a good pocket usually because the DEs would just hold contain and not try to rush inside.
Quote:Moreso the expectation (which is ridiculously high) of "next Boselli", I'm not even sure Luke has exceeded the standard of the guy he replaced. Right now, he's not even Monroe.
Monroe wasn't even "Monroe level" until his 3rd year, and he had his struggles. People have short and selective memories when it comes to stuff like this. This is exactly why I don't see them going crazy on the Oline this offseason.
Luke should be able to get into the weight training routine that he should have been in last offseason. Bortles will finally be able to get the footwork and muscle memory right without having to learn a playbook. Every piece of our young Oline will have the chance to go through a whole offseason training period with almost everybody free of injuries. My hope is that this situation breeds much more consistency next year with a higher level of play. There should be a few guys brought in to compete, but I don't think they'll break the bank on the big guys. I think the biggest change you'll see is that next year we'll either have Yarno back coaching (hope he gets better) or they'll have brought in a new Oline coach.
I think they're more than likely to break the bank for a TE, WR, LB, FS.
Quote:Monroe wasn't even "Monroe level" until his 3rd year, and he had his struggles. People have short and selective memories when it comes to stuff like this. This is exactly why I don't see them going crazy on the Oline this offseason.
Luke should be able to get into the weight training routine that he should have been in last offseason. Bortles will finally be able to get the footwork and muscle memory right without having to learn a playbook. Every piece of our young Oline will have the chance to go through a whole offseason training period with almost everybody free of injuries. My hope is that this situation breeds much more consistency next year with a higher level of play. There should be a few guys brought in to compete, but I don't think they'll break the bank on the big guys. I think the biggest change you'll see is that next year we'll either have Yarno back coaching (hope he gets better) or they'll have brought in a new Oline coach.
I think they're more than likely to break the bank for a TE, WR, LB, FS.
Agreed. I remember people calling Monroe a bust after his first and second season. It's pretty rare for a LT to come out of the gate and dominate. Fisher has struggled. Greg Robinson has struggled. Kalil has struggled this year. Heck even Warmack and Cooper who were supposed to be these dominate guards haven't done well. It takes time to develop talent.
Quote:he's the worst offensive lineman in history
How quickly we forget Ephraim "The Turnstyle" Salaam and Tony "Ole" Pashos around here.
Quote:Manziel had a good pocket usually because the DEs would just hold contain and not try to rush inside.
Good point.
Quote:How quickly we forget Ephraim "The Turnstyle" Salaam and Tony "Ole" Pashos around here.
Salaam was flat out bad.
Pashos was fine in 2007, but declined in 2008 along with the rest of the OL after Meester and both guards were injured by halftime of the first game. The Jags planned to keep him in 2009 but then drafted OTs with their first two picks.
Joeckel is disappointing, but not as bad as Salaam. He's more of a Mike Pearson.
So we wait until Monroe "comes into his own" and gets good, and then send him to baltimore.Only to be replaced by a kid that will take 3 years of letting the #1 QB get killed? Also after 3 years Luke may or may not be as good as Monroe when we let Monroe leave.
Sounds like a plan.
Quote:So we wait until Monroe "comes into his own" and gets good, and then send him to baltimore.Only to be replaced by a kid that will take 3 years of letting the #1 QB get killed? Also after 3 years Luke may or may not be as good as Monroe when we let Monroe leave.
Sounds like a plan.
Only flaw in your plan is that he was set to be a free agent the following year and maybe he didn't want to resign with us.
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