IMO, this rebuild would be further along had they just paid Monroe and used that 2nd pick on another position. It was a blunder from Caldwell no matter how you look at it. I don't know how to explain what he was thinking. Maybe he just wanted "his guy" at LT. I dunno.
Quote:That's because historically, most starting caliber LTs have been drafted high.
Look at our division. Every LT was drafted in the first round.
The AFC East? Three out of the four starting LTs in that division were drafted in the first round. (In fairness, Branden Albert was obtained via trade, though he too was a first round pick)
AFC North? Three out of the four were also drafted in the first round (though in fairness, the Ravens traded for Monroe, a former first round pick)
AFC West? Two out of the four starting LTs were first round picks.
NFC East? Two out of the four LTs were first round picks.
NFC North? Two out of the four LTs were first round picks.
NFC South has only one out of the four LTs being former first round picks.
NFC West has 3 out of four LTs were former first round picks.
That's 20 out of 32 starting LTs were first round picks.
I suspect after this April's draft, at least one other team (Carolina), maybe another (Tampa) will have a first rounder playing LT.
First round is alright, but top 5? I think at some point you have to realize the LT position is devalued.
There's not gonna be a LT that dominates the game anymore. That's fine, but don't draft them #2 overall.
If you're sitting at 15 or 20, and you want to draft a good lineman - awesome, good luck.
I'll use this example. The MLB position is rarely drafted in the top 5. Or SS.
Quote:If you get a long-term starting LT out of that pick, and he's an effective starter in the league, that's validation enough. As has already been pointed out, the era of the dominant LT is a memory. Even the best in the league right now have their struggles.
So then the position is over drafted? Instead of getting an All-Pro DE we'd rather draft a serviceable LT high in the 1st round and call it success? Then why not change philosophy? Maybe just committ your LT and TE or FB to block the left edge every play and stop wasting early picks on average players?
Quote:If you get a long-term starting LT out of that pick, and he's an effective starter in the league, that's validation enough. As has already been pointed out, the era of the dominant LT is a memory. Even the best in the league right now have their struggles.
So why would you waste a 2nd overall pick on that?
Quote:All I want is that we don't just assume players will get better. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
You have to have a backup plan. Our offensive line is by far the biggest weakness on this team IMO.
This is after Caldwell came in and revamped the entire unit.
Monroe is gone, Rackley is gone, Meester retired, Uche is gone, and Bradfield is gone.... and that's fine.
We went to a zone blocking scheme. It's year 2 of the O-line rebuild, and I dare say I still think this offensive line is worse than the line we had in 2012.
And if they're not worse than the 2012 line, they're sure close.
So two years of rebuilding this line and it's still pathetic.
YES, i know we have some young players on this line. I'm taking that into account. But I'm not simply going to say "we're young, so that means we'll be good later"..... it doesn't work that way.
Caldwell needs to draft another couple of lineman in the mid rounds this year.
in the 2 years of rebuild how many of the starting lineman have played 16 games? Might want to give them some time cause if you replace them with rookies it will be the same. Building is placeing blocks and letting them settle in not taking them out and replacing them with same blocks.
Quote:If that's the case (which it is) - coupled with the decreased practice times after the new CBA, then my point is even stronger: Don't waste your top 5 pick on a tackle!
Draft a couple in rounds 2-4 and I guarantee you, your chance of finding serviceable play is going to be good.
We should draft a lineman in every year in the mid rounds.
You draft players where you find them. It was pretty much the consensus pick in 2013 that Joeckel was the best player to pick in that position. That says more about the lack of quality in that draft than it does about the lack of insight from the front office.
I agree that the team needs to continue drafting lineman to bolster the depth and to possibly identify potential starters. Based on what they did in the draft this year, I think that's pretty much the approach they're taking, and we've got 2 rookies starting as a result.
Quote:Good run down!
Thank you.
Now I have argued in the past-and still do-that building dominant lines overall does not require a heavy first round emphasis on linemen. That has proven historically true over the decades.
But as a general rule, LT is the one position on the OL that seems to almost require an early round investment in the position to get an athlete good enough to consistently block the athletic freak DEs/OLBs.
Quote:IMO, this rebuild would be further along had they just paid Monroe and used that 2nd pick on another position. It was a blunder from Caldwell no matter how you look at it. I don't know how to explain what he was thinking. Maybe he just wanted "his guy" at LT. I dunno.
That wasn't the mindset on draft day in 2013. Joeckel was the top rated player on most boards when the Jags selected him. I'd hardly call it a blunder if he doesn't live up to the draft expectations. He certainly wasn't considered a reach.
Quote:So why would you waste a 2nd overall pick on that?
The broken record says again that he was the best player available when they were on the clock.
The position is over drafted and with the hybrid TE becoming so common, it should level out. LT used to be a premium position.
Quote:So then the position is over drafted? Instead of getting an All-Pro DE we'd rather draft a serviceable LT
Who is the all-pro DE we could've drafted? Ansah is having a very good year but lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Lets not forget, that was a terrible draft at the top. Other than Ansah, a bunch of mediocre players in the top 10.
How is Lane Johnson doing for the Eagles? He was the 3rd OT taken in that draft.
Quote:First round is alright, but top 5? I think at some point you have to realize the LT position is devalued.
There's not gonna be a LT that dominates the game anymore. That's fine, but don't draft them #2 overall.
If you're sitting at 15 or 20, and you want to draft a good lineman - awesome, good luck.
I'll use this example. The MLB position is rarely drafted in the top 5. Or SS.
I don't buy the argument that LT has become devalued.
More than ever, this is a passing league.
Successful passing games have to protect the QB. Protecting the QB basically requires a stud LT.
I think the 1990s represented a golden era of elite LTs.
Boselli, Ogden, Pace, Thomas, Jones, Glenn, Larry Allen (when he played LT) (and others I am undoubtedly missing) was quite possibly the best era of the great pass protecting LT.
Now even though LTs of recent vintage have not risen to those levels of excellence at LT, it does not mean the position has been devalued by the NFL. If you look at most draft classes, it's about as close to a guarantee as you can get to find a team picking a T in the top 5, and most certainly top 10.
Quote:Who is the all-pro DE we could've drafted? Ansah is having a very good year but lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Lets not forget, that was a terrible draft at the top. Other than Ansah, a bunch of mediocre players in the top 10.
I'm talking philosphy in general...
Quote:How is Lane Johnson doing for the Eagles? He was the 3rd OT taken in that draft.
He is playing RT for the Eagles because they are one of the few (Buffalo, actually) to find and develop a stud LT that wasn't drafted in the first round. However, Jason Peters will be 33 next year. If the Eagles decide to dump him, they could move Johnson to LT.
In fact, I think they took Johnson, in part, as a hedge to protect against Peters not returning successfully from a torn Achilles.
Quote:The position is over drafted and with the hybrid TE becoming so common, it should level out. LT used to be a premium position.
LT still is a premium position.
Hybrid TEs are more of a pass catching variety than anything else. Blocking TEs are becoming the more obsolete guys out there. That being said, the expectation is that you build a stout line to protect your QB starting with the guy protecting his blind side.
Interestingly enough, when Boselli was in his prime and being touted as one of the best, he had the benefit of protecting a left handed QB, so he wasn't the blind side guy. He still faced the better pass rushers, but he benefited greatly from Brunell's southpaw status. We were fortunate to have a guy like Searcy on the other end who did an outstanding job.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...rvalued/2/
if someone has time - it's worth a read.
Pretty much supports what I've been saying. LT's are overvalued. Pressure comes from everywhere. Give me 5 adequate lineman rather than wasting a 2nd overall pick on a LT and in turn play an undrafted RT on the opposite side.
Quote:https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...rvalued/2/
if someone has time - it's worth a read.
Pretty much supports what I've been saying. LT's are overvalued. Pressure comes from everywhere. Give me 5 adequate lineman rather than wasting a 2nd overall pick on a LT and in turn play an undrafted RT on the opposite side.
Admittedly I have yet to read the article, so apologies in advance if it was covered here, but why would a RT necessarily have to be undrafted if you spend a top 5 pick on a LT?