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Quote:Monroe sucked during his second year. After four years he had finally developed into a solid LT. Then we started the whole four year development process all over again by drafting Joeckel and trading Monroe. How is that in any way the smart thing to do?
The point is, Monroe took 4 years to develop into a solid, not top tier LT. Joeckel has basically just started his 2nd season as a starting LT in the NFL. He's had moments where he's struggled, and others where he's looked okay. No different than what we saw from Monroe during his time here.
It was smart to trade Monroe because he was in a contract year, and more than likely wasn't going to take the kind of pay cut that would be expected if he was moved to RT. Rather than let him walk, they managed to get something in return for him. Colvin and Chris Smith are the net result of trading with Baltimore, correct?
Quote:Monroe hasn't been 'terrible' for the Ravens. They chose to sign him to a long-term contract, so they must have found his play at least acceptable. He was slow changing to a zone blocking scheme, he was much better in the traditional scheme JDR and Mularkey used. BTW, the Ravens also use zone blocking, so he did eventually reach 'acceptable' as a zone blocker.
We had a known quantity in Monroe. We still don't know what we'll eventually have in Joeckel, but the results are not promising at this point.
Joeckel has gotten beat in every which way, by speed, by strengeth, by technique so yes I agree fully, there isn't anything at this point showing hope for Joeckel other than saying "well, he is young."
Quote:Once again, Luke is not a rookie.
He might as well be. He played what, a half a game at LT last year? Oh I forgot, he played the position in college, so he's reached his pinnacle as a player and obviously can't get any better with experience.
Quote:He might as well be. He played what, a half a game at LT last year? Oh I forgot, he played the position in college, so he's reached his pinnacle as a player and obviously can't get any better with experience.
The point people are making here is that he has a sufficient body of work (12 games) of which it's fair to review and make some educated judgments (although not final). A lot of people's point is that the only current "pro" going for him is his youth.
We are all hoping for him to pan out as a high draft pick but so far he has not shown any dominant flashes at all. His "flashes" are when BB doesn't get sacked. He's been beat far, far too often.
Quote:kindly point to where anyone said Luke needs to play mistake free football.
Assumption based on previous posters gruff comment that excepting a few mistakes or ok play makes you CLUELESS. No other alternative than mistake free.
After reading all the complaining...So what would a majority consider adequate play? It sounds like a witch hunt unless he is perfect!
Quote:After reading all the complaining...So what would a majority consider adequate play? It sounds like a witch hunt unless he is perfect!
For his draft position, he needs to be a reliable starter or future Pro-Bowler who doesn't allow sacks (or extremely rare) and can run block well. He needs to be a leader on the offensive line and make those around him better. BB should not have to worry about the rush coming from his blind side. That's why you draft a guy as high as Joeckel.
Quote:After reading all the complaining...So what would a majority consider adequate play? It sounds like a witch hunt unless he is perfect!
It's not as much a witch hunt as it is a vessel by which the eternal whiners on this board can continue to vent despite the team winning yesterday. It's what they do. They're not living unless they're complaining about something.
Judging off 12 games lol
Tyron smith sucked too
again your lack of education is showing Jeremy. Why do you consistantly want to bash our core young players?
I don't understand why you're a Jaguars fan....
Quote:It's not as much a witch hunt as it is a vessel by which the eternal whiners on this board can continue to vent despite the team winning yesterday. It's what they do. They're not living unless they're complaining about something.
I missed the notice that this is a positives only board. Maybe we should put up a disclaimer that realistic discussion (or opinion) is not permitted. It could cut down on the confusion.
Quote:The point is, Monroe took 4 years to develop into a solid, not top tier LT. Joeckel has basically just started his 2nd season as a starting LT in the NFL. He's had moments where he's struggled, and others where he's looked okay. No different than what we saw from Monroe during his time here.
It was smart to trade Monroe because he was in a contract year, and more than likely wasn't going to take the kind of pay cut that would be expected if he was moved to RT. Rather than let him walk, they managed to get something in return for him. Colvin and Chris Smith are the net result of trading with Baltimore, correct?
Correct. Colvin may very well turn out to be worth more than Monroe. But he was a 4th round pick nonetheless. Had Caldwell just traded the #2 pick in 2013 for 2014 picks he could have gotten a lot more than two late round picks.
Every young former draft pick ends up in a contract year. The best teams keep their best players, especially if they are awash in cap room. Monroe was the best player left from the pre-Caldwell group.
The Ravens re-signed him, and they have one of the best front offices. I don't think their re-signing of Monroe was a mistake.
We don't know how Joeckel will turn out. At this point it doesn't look likely that he'll be significantly better than Monroe, and he may be worse. It's always a question of sticking with the known average guy or risking an upgrade. Using the #2 pick in the draft on a possible upgrade/ possible downgrade is just throwing the pick down the toilet.
Quote:I missed the notice that this is a positives only board. Maybe we should put up a disclaimer that realistic discussion (or opinion) is not permitted. It could cut down on the confusion.
Nobody is saying it's a positive only board. I'm just pointing out that people like you live under an eternal cloud, and your posting history reflects this. Positives are given begrudgingly, and the negatives flow freely.
Quote:Judging off 12 games lol
Tyron smith sucked too
again your lack of education is showing Jeremy. Why do you consistantly want to bash our core young players?
I don't understand why you're a Jaguars fan....
We don't have to drink Teal Kool Aid to be a Jags fan. We all want the team to be awesome. Some of us just have a more level-headed, realistic observation of things.
Quote:Correct. Colvin may very well turn out to be worth more than Monroe. But he was a 4th round pick nonetheless. Had Caldwell just traded the #2 pick in 2013 for 2014 picks he could have gotten a lot more than two late round picks.
Every young former draft pick ends up in a contract year. The best teams keep their best players, especially if they are awash in cap room. Monroe was the best player left from the pre-Caldwell group.
The Ravens re-signed him, and they have one of the best front offices. I don't think their re-signing of Monroe was a mistake.
We don't know how Joeckel will turn out. At this point it doesn't look likely that he'll be significantly better than Monroe, and he may be worse. It's always a question of sticking with the known average guy or risking an upgrade. Using the #2 pick in the draft on a possible upgrade/ possible downgrade is just throwing the pick down the toilet.
The jury is still out on Joeckel. Based on what was available at the top of the 2013 draft, he was the best player available to this team. General managers don't work in hindsight.
The best teams keep their best players...unless those "best players" are going to be asked to move to a new position that carries a lower cap figure, and their expectations for what their compensation should be exceed that figure. That was what was coming for the Jaguars, and Monroe wasn't going to sign a new deal with this team. They recognized this and did what they had to do to manage that situation.
It sucks that we're hoping Joeckel eventually becomes as good as average-to-above-average Eugene Monroe.
Quote:Nobody is saying it's a positive only board. I'm just pointing out that people like you live under an eternal cloud, and your posting history reflects this. Positives are given begrudgingly, and the negatives flow freely.
You see it how you want, rainbows and unicorns and all.
[quote name="JeremyNFL" post="379629" timestamp="1417449870"]
We don't have to drink Teal Kool Aid to be a Jags fan. We all want the team to be awesome. Some of us just have a more level-headed, realistic observation of things.[/quote
You have no realistic observations.... He's a rookie getting beat by premium pass rushers who have acquired skills over years of experience. Expejriance he has none of. Moves he hasn't seen. He needs to bulk up and just keep fighting. Our whole team is so young you really don't get it lol
Quote:[quote name="JeremyNFL" post="379629" timestamp="1417449870"]
We don't have to drink Teal Kool Aid to be a Jags fan. We all want the team to be awesome. Some of us just have a more level-headed, realistic observation of things.[/quote
You have no realistic observations.... He's a rookie getting beat by premium pass rushers who have acquired skills over years of experience. Expejriance he has none of. Moves he hasn't seen. He needs to bulk up and just keep fighting. Our whole team is so young you really don't get it lol
He's not a rookie.
Quote:You see it how you want, rainbows and unicorns and all.
You call yourself "level headed" but the reality is you're just a miserable little child. Level headed is someone who doesn't start multiple threads whining after a win. Level headed is recognizing that there are still issues with this team, but that yesterday was overall a good moment for the franchise. You wouldn't know level headed if it slapped you over the top of that thick skull of yours with a 2x4.
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