Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

If you want to get back on topic, Alfie posted a similar story on BCC.



Here's Gene's acquisitions over his four year tenure:

Quote:I didn't include trades, which would include guys like Jason Spitz, David Jones and Dwight Lowery because I couldn't find anything reliable to get that complete list. You can see here though, that even if you include those it was awful. The players tabbed with the color red are no longer on an NFL roster (Zach Miller is on IR with the Chicago Bears). The players tabbed in green are still on the Jaguars roster and the player tabbed in yellow is suspended.

Here's the Bengals acquisitions over the same time frame for comparisons sake:



<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/11/25/7280033/why-is-the-jaguars-rebuild-taking-so-long'>http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/11/25/7280033/why-is-the-jaguars-rebuild-taking-so-long</a>

This is the final 2012 Jags roster:

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Quote: That means that there are 20 players from the 2012 final active roster that are no longer on an NFL roster. Most of them aren't old, either. Then, the players that ended up on injured reserve make up another 10 players who are not longer in the NFL. The Jaguars have just 11 players still on the roster from 2012 and most of the ones who are not and still in the league are mediocre starters/depth at best. Sure, Terrance Knighton andDaryl Smith are still playing well, but outside of that it's just a bunch of guys.


How do you fix that quickly?

That's tough folks.

Quote:This is the final 2012 Jags roster:


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That's tough folks.

 

There is no quick fix for what was done to this roster by the previous regime, but there are many here who simply want to ignore how bad things had gotten.  I guess it doesn't happen like that in Madden. 

Quote:There is no quick fix for what was done to this roster by the previous regime, but there are many here who simply want to ignore how bad things had gotten.  I guess it doesn't happen like that in Madden. 

 

So, if I am reading this correctly, anybody who questions a current regimes moves doesn't know what the heck they are talking about because they aren't paid to evaluate football talent and belittled by you for even questioning their moves, but once they get fired, it is fair game to question the moves they made because someone who is a "football mind" fired them?

 

This is the equivalent of assuming the President is good just because he is the President.

Quote:And spare us.  We all know Gene Smith sucked. 

 

We told yall that for 4 yrs too and look where it got us. 

 

The horses [BLEEP] drafted a punter in the 3rd round and yall act like we don't know he sucked. 

 

How many of yall defended that pick when it happened?

 

He is a starter

He has great hangtime

He has a monster leg

 

Remember all the oooooooos and ahhhhhhhhs John O used to talk about at training camp practices. 

 

mediocre

Quote:The horses [BAD WORD REMOVED] drafted a punter in the 3rd round and yall act like we don't know he sucked.


How many of yall defended that pick when it happened?


He is a starter

He has great hangtime

He has a monster leg


Remember all the oooooooos and ahhhhhhhhs John O used to talk about at training camp practices.


mediocre

"We" have also be wrong as many times as we've been right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48qo6bJGgOc

 

I love how they are doing their best to justify the pick.

Quote:Many.


Denard Robinson, Bowanko, Linder, Allen Robinson, Allen Hurns, McCray, J.T Thomas, Ryan Davis, Cyprien, Alualu is playing the best ball of his career, Abry Jones, Telvin Smith. These are all young players, some playing huge roles.

lol @ Alualu playing the best ball of his career. That's because he's now on the kickoff return team.


Not that we needed anything else to discredit your opinion.

Quote:lol @ Alualu playing the best ball of his career. That's because he's now on the kickoff return team.


Not that you needed anything else to discredit your opinion.

 

Tommy boy is an incandescent living in an LED world.

Quote:Tommy boy is an incandescent living in an LED world.

I just love the fact he parades around here acting like he knows more than everybody. Kid knows absolutely nothing of which he speaks of.

Quote:So, if I am reading this correctly, anybody who questions a current regimes moves doesn't know what the heck they are talking about because they aren't paid to evaluate football talent and belittled by you for even questioning their moves, but once they get fired, it is fair game to question the moves they made because someone who is a "football mind" fired them?

 

This is the equivalent of assuming the President is good just because he is the President.

You didn't read it correctly.

Quote:agree 100% blowing it up was a colossal mistake and we're seeing why.

 

To blow up a roster and successfully rebuild it within 3 years would require hitting on all your draft picks and every free agent, it's a numbers game you're just not going to win. Even 4 years is pushing it your bound to miss on a few.

Seems the best teams don't rebuild, they reload. Meaning you don't blow things up from one regime to another. You keep the pieces that are helpful and reload around them. Live and learn I guess...


Another poster stated that two seasons ago, the zeitgeist of the jungle was to blow it all up... Here's my experience in the jungle, and I think it holds for most social settings: when a movement is in progress that has been established as happening no matter the what, the majority will fall in line, whether they have faith in the plan or not... That was the feeling I got when the blow it up movement was occurring.


Another example was the Blake isn't starting this season movement.


One thing to notice about this tendency: certain folks will stick with the zeitgeist far after this process has revealed itself to be flawed

Quote:

Seems the best teams don't rebuild, they reload. Meaning you don't blow things up from one regime to another. You keep the pieces that are helpful and reload around them. Live and learn I guess...


Another poster stated that two seasons ago, the zeitgeist of the jungle was to blow it all up... Here's my experience in the jungle, and I think it holds for most social settings: when a movement is in progress that has been established as happening no matter the what, the majority will fall in line, whether they have faith in the plan or not... That was the feeling I got when the blow it up movement was occurring.


Another example was the Blake isn't starting this season movement.


One thing to notice about this tendency: certain folks will stick with the zeitgeist far after this process has revealed itself to be flawed

I think an arguement could be made for both approaches. The Seahawks took a similar route to "Blow it up" when Pete Carroll took over and it obviously paid off. The Patriots have been "retooling" for a decade plus now and its obviously paid dividends as well.


Then you have teams like the Jaguars and Raiders who seem to be stuck in rebuild mode. I guess it depends on what talent you have to work with. As you see in the article I linked, the Jags didn't have much.

The point is if Pot Roast and Smith and Monroe and Mincey and some of the others were retained we could have drafted for depth or other specific areas of need. Once released you're drafting their replacement with a crapshoot pick who likely needs development.

 

In any case, it was blownup like people wanted and we now have what we have.

 

Regards.....................the Chiefjag

Quote:I think an arguement could be made for both approaches. The Seahawks took a similar route to "Blow it up" when Pete Carroll took over and it obviously paid off. The Patriots have been "retooling" for a decade plus now and its obviously paid dividends as well.


Then you have teams like the Jaguars and Raiders who seem to be stuck in rebuild mode. I guess it depends on what talent you have to work with. As you see in the article I linked, the Jags didn't have much.

 

The Seahawks hit absolute grand slams in the draft with Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman and Russell Wilson. They nailed picks of KJ Wright Bobby Wagner and Kam Chancellor. They added Marshawn Lynch, Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett at discount rates. We have done none of that.

Quote:The Seahawks hit absolute grand slams in the draft with Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman and Russell Wilson. They nailed picks of KJ Wright Bobby Wagner and Kam Chancellor. They added Marshawn Lynch, Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett at discount rates. We have done none of that.

We don't know that as a fact. The jury is still out on both of our draft classes...and Bortles is the key.

I don't think there's any doubt that Gene left the tank running on empty. There's also no debate that whatever little was left, Dave flushed down wanting his own type of fuel. And to further add to this point, the fuel he added to fill the tank...hasn't quite kept the engine running.

 

Yes, there is time for his draft class to turn it around. But 2013 is his first draft and it was supposed to be the building block of this franchise: Luke for our OL, and Cyp for our secondary. Fast forward to their 2nd years and Luke is getting beat like a drum by a 40 year old Mincey and Cyp is still blowing coverages resulting in big plays.

 

Yes, Gene Smith did not draft cornerstone or playmakers in the 4 years that he was a GM. In 2 years that Dave has been here, so far none appear to be candidates aside from Bortles (before he turned into Chad Henne)

 

Next year is THE year for Dave and Gus. It will be their third year, and the year he claims we'll spend money to "fill the tank" (coinciding with the development of his 2013 and 2014 classes). Anything lower than 8-8 (or a 6-6 / 7-9 with lots of close losses against playoff caliber teams) would be the end for them, IMO.

Quote:I think an arguement could be made for both approaches. The Seahawks took a similar route to "Blow it up" when Pete Carroll took over and it obviously paid off. The Patriots have been "retooling" for a decade plus now and its obviously paid dividends as well.


Then you have teams like the Jaguars and Raiders who seem to be stuck in rebuild mode. I guess it depends on what talent you have to work with. As you see in the article I linked, the Jags didn't have much.

 

There's not one way to build a successful franchise. Blowing it up typically results in longevity of success, but it is also more difficult (as you have to hit with not just one but multiple draft picks). Until the guys that Dave drafted starts turning the corner and become building blocks, this team will continue to look like what it has been the past couple of years.

Boy it's great to be a Jags fan these days.... So much to talk about.

Quote:I think an arguement could be made for both approaches. The Seahawks took a similar route to "Blow it up" when Pete Carroll took over and it obviously paid off. The Patriots have been "retooling" for a decade plus now and its obviously paid dividends as well.

Then you have teams like the Jaguars and Raiders who seem to be stuck in rebuild mode. I guess it depends on what talent you have to work with. As you see in the article I linked, the Jags didn't have much.

The one thing I'd point out about that article is the fact that there are several players that could have been part of the rebuild as opposed to shrapnel from the demolition. After further review, it's realistic to say this.. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but to ignore hindsight is like forcing your head in the sand