Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I disagree. TED is not saying TMD cannot hold that belief, nor is he taking any action to suppress TMD from holding that belief.

 

Correct, yet he will continue saying he is or others are.  

Quote:Baseless? It's really not baseless. I can go find dozens of instances on this forum alone that provide a solid base for that comment. The problem is, even if I went through and pointed them out to you, there would be excuses for spins for each and every one of them.

 

Let's start with The Eleventh Doctor stating that he thinks TMD's view on same sex marriage is immoral. I have no dog in this fight and can objectively say it appears that The Eleventh Doctor is policing TMD's ideals/beliefs.

 

If you can't see that, then it's pointless to bring forth other examples because you are choosing not to see what is in front of you.

 

I think you lack reading comprehension, because never did I say his view on same sex marriage is immoral.  In fact here's exactly what I said, and I will spell it out enough so that even my children could understand it:


 

Quote: 

Just as you think homosexuality isn't moral, we think that treating gays as different or bad isn't moral.

 

I think that if you treat gay people differently than you treat straight people, that it's immoral to do so.


If Jim is straight, and Bob is gay, you should treat Bob and Jim the same.  Treating Bob different from Jim is immoral in my opinion.


Do I need to add pictures?

Quote:TMD is not judging you for your ideals/beliefs on same sex marriage.

TMD is being judged for not having those same ideals/beliefs.

 

Maybe not by you, but by others in this thread. There is a disconnect here that is absolutely baffling.

 

Sure he is. When he lumps anyone expressing a particular point of view as a liberal, he is judging them, because he has explained what he believes constitutes being a liberal.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:There seems to be some confusion among some here that criticism of one's stated view on a subject equals intolerance. You can tolerate a point of view while still disagreeing with it. You can even call it ignorant, stupid or any number of things. As long as you take no action to suppress it, you are tolerant.

 

The argument against same sex marriage that I've never understood is when someone says it devalues their own "traditional" marriage.

 

Woah, woah, woah. That completely contradicts what I've been told in the past. If I say that you thinking women should have the right to vote is ignorant and stupid, I'll immediately be labeled intolerant of women's rights. But hey, as long as I take no action to suppress it, I should be considered tolerant, right?? Horse crap.

 

But as soon as it's something liberals disagree with (ie. TMD's view on same sex marriage), as long as that view point isn't suppressed, those people are considered tolerant of TMD's views? Give me a break.

 

 

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm very much down the middle on this one, but if you can't see the hypocrisy going on it's only because you are choosing not to.

Quote:Woah, woah, woah. That completely contradicts what I've been told in the past. If I say that you thinking women should have the right to vote is ignorant and stupid, I'll immediately be labeled intolerant of women's rights. But hey, as long as I take no action to suppress it, I should be considered tolerant, right?? Horse crap.

 

But as soon as it's something liberals disagree with (ie. TMD's view on same sex marriage), as long as that view point isn't suppressed, those people are considered tolerant of TMD's views? Give me a break.

 

 

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm very much down the middle on this one, but if you can't see the hypocrisy going on it's only because you are choosing not to.

 

:thumbsup: right...

Quote:Agree with the above.  I have no problem with someone disagreeing with same sex marriage.  I do have a problem with those who not only disagree, but want to force that view point into other people's lives.  

 

So then why are people taking issue with TMD's stance?

 

 

Quote:<div>Am I going to "live and let live"? Yep. If you want to get married to a person of the same sex, go ahead. 
 
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Quote:So should businesses be allowed to not serve someone because they are black?  

 

The above is not the same comparison, as being black isn't against anyone's religious/ moral beliefs.

Quote:So then why are people taking issue with TMD's stance?

 

They are having a debate.  This is a message board.  There is nothing wrong with that.  

Quote: :thumbsup: right...

 

What? I believe same-sex marriage should be legal and I don't believe gays should be treated different than others.

 

I just don't think I have the right to tell TMD his views are immoral or stupid.

If you are against a woman's right to vote, you are being intolerant.  Even if you don't do anything about it.  


But you have a right to be intolerant.  You have a right to express your opinions.  What you shouldn't have a right to do is to deny someone else of their rights.  Just as we shouldn't be able to deny you your rights to your opinions.  


Take the Skoki case for example.  My wife brings this one up a lot.  And it's a good example.  The Nazi's had a right to protest, and make their speeches.  That doesn't mean we have to think of the Nazi's as moral.

Quote:The above is not the same comparison, as being black isn't against anyone's religious/ moral beliefs.

 

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politic...ict-racial,

 

It is for some.  Someone's religion can be based on absolutely anything.  That is a slippery slope.  

Quote:I just don't think I have the right to tell TMD his views are immoral or stupid.

Sure you do.  You have the right to say anything, short of shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theater or similar.


Heck, people here tell TMD his views are stupid every day on football issues all the time. 


I don't see you arguing that the other side shouldn't say that our beliefs are immoral for the record.

Quote:They are having a debate.  This is a message board.  There is nothing wrong with that.  

 

Cop out much?

 

You support TMD being villainized for holding a different belief (despite not forcing it on others) because it is a message board? If the setting were different, you wouldn't support it?

Quote:What? I believe same-sex marriage should be legal and I don't believe gays should be treated different than others.

 

I just don't think I have the right to tell TMD his views are immoral or stupid.

 

Nothing wrong with others stating TMD's views are immoral just as Christians think it is immoral to be gay.  I didn't see anyone call him stupid.  Please quote otherwise straw man argument.

 

You seemed to have no problem with TMD, as he often does, group everyone who disagrees with him into one group.  If you really don't have a dog in the fight then you should point out both sides, but you aren't.

Quote:If you are against a woman's right to vote, you are being intolerant.  Even if you don't do anything about it.  

 

 

No, no, no. Rollerjag JUST said that just because I disagree with your view point doesn't make me intolerant. As long as I don't do anything about it, rollerjag says I'm tolerant. You guys are contradicting each other.

Quote:Cop out much?

 

You support TMD being villainized for holding a different belief (despite not forcing it on others) because it is a message board? If the setting were different, you wouldn't support it?

 

Cop out?  Anyone saying he is a villain or evil?  Again, please quote things and support what you are saying otherwise it doesn't mean much.  If I have a different view point then you and I share it and back it up, that means I'm villainizing you? 

Quote:Sure you do.  You have the right to say anything, short of shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theater or similar.


Heck, people here tell TMD his views are stupid every day on football issues all the time. 

I don't see you arguing that the other side shouldn't say that our beliefs are immoral for the record.

 

Because the conservative backbone isn't being tolerant of other people's ideas and beliefs. Liberals fight tooth and nail for the acceptance of everyone's ideals and beliefs. That is, until one of those ideals/beliefs isn't the status quo and then that idea gets be blasted. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in this.

Quote:No, no, no. Rollerjag JUST said that just because I disagree with your view point doesn't make me intolerant. As long as I don't do anything about it, rollerjag says I'm tolerant. You guys are contradicting each other.

 

There are many things that Rollerjag and I do not agree on.  We're not contradicting each other, because we are not one entity (to my knowledge).  Everyone that agrees on a particular issue doesn't necessarily have the same beliefs elsewhere.

 

 

Quote:<div>
Because the conservative backbone isn't being tolerant of other people's ideas and beliefs. Liberals fight tooth and nail for the acceptance of everyone's ideals and beliefs. That is, until one of those ideals/beliefs isn't the status quo and then that idea gets be blasted. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in this.

 
And I'm a liberal, am I? I had no idea.  I guess i've not been a very good one.  I've only voted for one democrat in my life, and that was because the republican candidate was a nutjob.
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Quote:There are many things that Rollerjag and I do not agree on.  We're not contradicting each other, because we are not one entity (to my knowledge).  Everyone that agrees on a particular issue doesn't necessarily have the same beliefs elsewhere.

 

You villain you!

 

What you see with posters like TMD and Hail is they must group everyone together.  One of the reasons I hate labels.  It over simplifies a very complex world.  

Quote:Because the conservative backbone isn't being tolerant of other people's ideas and beliefs. Liberals fight tooth and nail for the acceptance of everyone's ideals and beliefs. That is, until one of those ideals/beliefs isn't the status quo and then that idea gets be blasted. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in this.

 

Liberals and Republicans fight tooth and nail for their beliefs.  It is silly to think otherwise.  This is why you don't have political arguments at a party.  Because all you get is people talking and not listening.