Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:So I take it you're defending the core of liberalism because non-liberals aren't upholding it or something?  I'm confused.

 

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy involved for those who aren't defending the core of liberalism.

 

If you don't support liberalism, then I apologize for making the assumption that you do.

I guess I'm one of those people who refused to be labeled, simply because I don't follow a specific party or way of thinking. I've voted democratic and republican multiple times. I vote with who best suits me and my way of thinking is always based on my well being alone.

 
[quotej tmoney, on 11 Oct 2014 - 1:27 PM, said:
Agree with the above.  I have no problem with someone disagreeing with same sex marriage.  I do have a problem with those who not only disagree, but want to force that view point into other people's lives.  [/quote]
 
 
 
 
 
Holy hypocrisy batman!!! 
 
 
 
 
 
 
[/quote]hailtoyourvictor, on 11 Oct 2014 - 1:49 PM, said:
Because the conservative backbone isn't being tolerant of other people's ideas and beliefs. Liberals fight tooth and nail for the acceptance of everyone's ideals and beliefs. That is, until one of those ideals/beliefs isn't the status quo and then that idea gets be blasted. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in this. [/quote]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Yep. Yet they fail to see it. 
 

 

Quote:hailtoyourvictor, on 11 Oct 2014 - 1:55 PM, said:

Again, are you not reading TED's posts? TED would consider be intolerant (and/or immoral?) for having the idea/belief that women should have the right to vote. People should be allowed to disagree have different view points. I'm point out the hypocrisy that occurs when liberals:
1) Stress that all viewpoints should be tolerated
2) Consider somebody intolerant for disagreeing
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Agreed again. 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:Jag1st.Nole2nd, on 11 Oct 2014 - 1:57 PM, said:

Do I agree with the gay lifestyle? Nope, I personally think it's disgusting. But do I support them? I sure do. What I feel and think has no bearing on what brings happines to others. As the saying goes, to each their own and as human beings, they deserve the same rights as everyone else.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Funny, I've pretty much echoed the above with my opinion. Not exact words but similar in theme...
 
I am all for equality. 
 
But equality works both ways. If the liberals want me to be tolerant of them, then respect my beliefs too. The episode with the gay couple taking the Christian baker to court over the cake thing and specifically targetting that place of business intentionally is not an example of respect on their part. 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:jtmoney, on 11 Oct 2014 - 2:09 PM, said:

So why are you posting in here?  I think TMD can handle himself.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Oh, so its ok for others to jump into others arguments when its bashing me, but when someone jumps in to defend my POV here, then, well thats no good. Haha. Par/ course. 

Quote:Apparently we have been doing it wrong.  We will probably hear from the democratic party letting us know how we need to think.

 

LOL....too easy. 

 

Quote:While I know TMD opposes same sex marriage since he said it in another thread, but no, no one specifically opposed it in this thread.  Feel free to find where I said they did.  What I did say is there was some good debate going back and forth until you decided to say people were doing things even thought they weren't.  I've asked you several time to provide quotes for people calling TMD stupid and saying he is a villain.  Also, you still haven't shown where someone said you aren't allowed to have a right to your beliefs. Still waiting...

 

I am pro traditional marriage. Thats what I believe in. 

 

That said, nowhere have I said that I don't think same sex marriage should be disallowed. I've said over and over that I'm in favor of equality and I won't stand in their way. 

 

The issue here is just like hailtoyourvictor said.... Its not good enough that I just agree to equality, the people that are pro homosexuality also want me to approve of their lifestyle as well. At least that sure seems how it is. 

Quote:The very backbone of liberalism is being tolerant of other people's views and beliefs.

Liberals, who stress this, are often guilty of being intolerant of disagreements in views and beliefs.

 

I'm not saying that anybodies right to believe what in what they want to believe in is being compromised. I'm saying that being intolerant of those beliefs goes against the essential core of liberalism.

Being tolerant of intolerance is not a requirement of liberalism (at least as I view liberalism), and your perceived backbone of liberalism is wrong because it doesn't extend to all beliefs. It extends only so far as those beliefs don't hinder others ability to live their life. Not viewing same sex marriage as "moral" is fine as far as I'm concerned, so long as you don't hinder their ability to live their life. The problem starts when somebody tries to deny same sex couples the ability to marry or to prevent them from doing something that heterosexual couples would have no problems doing.


The idea that liberals are somehow required to be a-okay with intolerant beliefs is a twisting of the intentions of liberalism. Liberalism - like conservatism - is a complex category rather than a strictly defined belief set.

Either your for the state legislating what is perceived morality or your not. Same Sex Marriage has no effect on the life of anyone but the ones involved so where's the justification for the state legislating any marriage laws between adults?

 

I don't like gay marriage, I don't like plenty of things in society, but more importantly I don't want the state dictating my views of morality. The same way I don't want someone else's views of morality legislated to me. 

 

This is where I have a problem with mainstream conservatives, your for smaller government UNTIL you find something outside of your comfort zone, then you want government to legislate it away. 

Quote:LOL....too easy. 

 

 

I am pro traditional marriage. Thats what I believe in. 

 

That said, nowhere have I said that I don't think same sex marriage should be disallowed. I've said over and over that I'm in favor of equality and I won't stand in their way. 

 

The issue here is just like hailtoyourvictor said.... Its not good enough that I just agree to equality, the people that are pro homosexuality also want me to approve of their lifestyle as well. At least that sure seems how it is. 

 

Nothing wrong with any of what you just said. I can disapprove of an action but still understand the need for people to be free to make their own choice. That only changes when the action causes harm to another. 

Quote:The very backbone of liberalism is being tolerant of other people's views and beliefs.

Liberals, who stress this, are often guilty of being intolerant of disagreements in views and beliefs.

 

I'm not saying that anybodies right to believe what in what they want to believe in is being compromised. I'm saying that being intolerant of those beliefs goes against the essential core of liberalism.

 

Isn't the backbone of conservatism smaller government?  :whistling:

I find that conservatives have leaned more towards legislating morality than anything else lately.  It's what they want to sell to their base.  Get out the moral-right's vote!  


It's why I vote third party anymore.  Guys like Rick Santorum have made me dislike the Republican party more and more.  And now in Virginia the guy running against the Democrat whom I can't stand is a former Enron lobbyist. 

Quote:Being tolerant of intolerance is not a requirement of liberalism (at least as I view liberalism), and your perceived backbone of liberalism is wrong because it doesn't extend to all beliefs. It extends only so far as those beliefs don't hinder others ability to live their life. Not viewing same sex marriage as "moral" is fine as far as I'm concerned, so long as you don't hinder their ability to live their life. The problem starts when somebody tries to deny same sex couples the ability to marry or to prevent them from doing something that heterosexual couples would have no problems doing....

 

 

...oh, you mean like what nobody in this thread has done?

 

You liberals say one thing and act another. 

Quote:I find that conservatives have leaned more towards legislating morality than anything else lately.  It's what they want to sell to their base.  Get out the moral-right's vote!  


It's why I vote third party anymore.  

 

It's the move towards Neo-Conservatism in the GOP, big Government for different reasons. It's why I refuse to vote mainstream GOP in most elections. 

Quote:...oh, you mean like what nobody in this thread has done?

 

You liberals say one thing and act another. 

What part of my post even remotely suggests that I was speaking on behalf of any other person? In fact, I said quite the opposite at the beginning of the post you're quoting.


Where, exactly, did I act differently than what I just said? In fact, I'm pretty sure I said in that very post that I have no problem with your stance on this issue.


Your hatred of liberals is clouding your already severely lacking judgment, TMD.

Quote:I find that conservatives have leaned more towards legislating morality than anything else lately.  It's what they want to sell to their base.  Get out the moral-right's vote!  


It's why I vote third party anymore.  Guys like Rick Santorum have made me dislike the Republican party more and more.  And now in Virginia the guy running against the Democrat whom I can't stand is a former Enron lobbyist. 

 

 Interestingly,  I saw an article earlier this evening with quotes from Mike Huckabee that's the antithesis of what you expressed:

 

http://lastresistance.com/7768/mike-huck...-marriage/

Quote: Interestingly,  I saw an article earlier this evening with quotes from Mike Huckabee that's the antithesis of what you expressed:

 

http://lastresistance.com/7768/mike-huck...-marriage/

 

Huckabee is trying to equate abortion to same sex marriage that's two completely different issues. However Huckabee is NOT a conservative he's a modern Neo-Conservative that want's big government to represent his interest and legislate his version of morality. 

 

Huckabee is a perfect example of what IS wrong with the GOP, government is the solution when I want it to be the rest of the time it's the problem, no consistency. 

Quote:Huckabee is trying to equate abortion to same sex marriage that's two completely different issues. However Huckabee is NOT a conservative he's a modern Neo-Conservative that want's big government to represent his interest and legislate his version of morality. 

 

Huckabee is a perfect example of what IS wrong with the GOP, government is the solution when I want it to be the rest of the time it's the problem, no consistency. 

 

 While there are things that Mike Huckabee did when he was the Governor of Arkansas that I disagree with that aren't what I consider Conservative actions,   I support him on many issues.   Especially regarding his genuine support of Israel and on the Social Issues.   Having said this,  I hope Huckabee doesn't run for President in 2016 if Ted Cruz runs.    They will divide their vote up and we will be stuck with another John McCain/ Mitt Romney type of candidate.  

Quote: While there are things that Mike Huckabee did when he was the Governor of Arkansas that I disagree with that aren't what I consider Conservative actions,   I support him on many issues.   Especially regarding his genuine support of Israel and on the Social Issues.   Having said this,  I hope Huckabee doesn't run for President in 2016 if Ted Cruz runs.    They will divide their vote up and we will be stuck with another John McCain/ Mitt Romney type of candidate.  

 

I don't trust Mike any more then I'd trust McCain. He's been a constant pimp for big government from Common Core on down. His stance on SSM deviates from his need for Government to legislate his morality. 

 

Huckabee is the anti-Cruz or Rand Paul. 

Quote: Interestingly,  I saw an article earlier this evening with quotes from Mike Huckabee that's the antithesis of what you expressed:

 

http://lastresistance.com/7768/mike-huck...-marriage/

 

Quote: 

 

“I am utterly exasperated with Republicans and the so-called leadership of the Republicans who have abdicated on this issue when, if they continue this direction they guarantee they’re gonna lose every election in the future. Guarantee it.”

Mostly because the republican party will be split in two -- and the social conservatives will split the conservative vote.  Republicans are losing the support of younger generations.  The baby boomers are going the way of the dodo.  They're also losing the support of the pro-business guys who want to feel like they're making the world better, but also want small government.  They've started to realize that the Republicans aren't going to shrink the government.  

Quote:I don't trust Mike any more then I'd trust McCain. He's been a constant pimp for big government from Common Core on down. His stance on SSM deviates from his need for Government to legislate his morality. 

 

Huckabee is the anti-Cruz or Rand Paul. 

 

Mike Huckabee hasn't been consistent enough in opposing Common Core.   On this issue,  we are in agreement. 

Quote: 

Mostly because the republican party will be split in two -- and the social conservatives will split the conservative vote.  Republicans are losing the support of younger generations.  The baby boomers are going the way of the dodo.  They're also losing the support of the pro-business guys who want to feel like they're making the world better, but also want small government.  They've started to realize that the Republicans aren't going to shrink the government.  

 

 

  Though we disagree on at least one major issue,  as this thread and others like it reflect,   I do agree that the Republican Party will split.   It's realistically possible that it will split into more than 2 parties. 

Quote:  Though we disagree on at least one major issue,  as this thread and others like it reflect,   I do agree that the Republican Party will split.   It's realistically possible that it will split into more than 2 parties. 

Yeah, we disagree on many things I'm sure.  I think that would actually be a good idea -- the split.  But only if the democratic party also split.  Doing away with the two party system would be nice.