Caldwell will simply have to possess some humility and look at this opportunity for what it is. A great chance to learn from someone with TC's pedigree. TC will also learn from Caldwell and will definitely be highly dependent upon the info Caldwell can provide him as far as roster and draft possibilities. This is a good thing for Caldwell.
Quote:Caldwell will simply have to possess some humility and look at this opportunity for what it is. A great chance to learn from someone with TC's pedigree. TC will also learn from Caldwell and will definitely be highly dependent upon the info Caldwell can provide him as far as roster and draft possibilities. This is a good thing for Caldwell.
Caldwell is the present and future of this organization. Team just needs results. Coughlin was brought in to jump start the organization and to install a winning culture to the team. Caldwell will learn from the best and you are right, will become even better from it.
Quote:I still do
I've not seen it in yearsrrsssss.. What's the chick who was in this and big in the 80's with the gummy smile? She was hawt back then. Also in the movie "Valley Girl".
Eidt: Sorry, off topic.
Dave is still the GM.
Quote:You are the one denying facts not me. You just dont want to admit that Tom Coughlin is in charge of the Football Operations now. Now, once you understand that, you can also assume that Caldwell will be learning from Couglin of how to install a better team culture, something he lacked and once the team gets turned around, Caldwell absolutely will be in full control again.
Dave Caldwell absolutely is going to be a big part of this organization now and going forward. NOONE is denying that.
good lord...what is so hard to understand? Caldwell was not demoted, he was not put in the back seat, he was not taken out of the loop, he still does the exact same thing he's been doing since he was hired
Quote:I watched the entire press conference. All that says is that they will come to a consensus on decision making but if they dont, Coughlin has the final say. Once again, Tom Coughlin has the final say. You are denying the facts that Tom Coughlin is in charge and that is Caldwells boss, who no longer has full control in the team.
You have denied blatant facts about the power structure now of this team.
Either you didn't listen to it or you just want to argue...It said there is a process and the process and it will work 99.9% of the time...That's not the same thing you are trying to present
Quote:good lord...what is so hard to understand? Caldwell was not demoted, he was not put in the back seat, he was not taken out of the loop, he still does the exact same thing he's been doing since he was hired
But sounds like the big difference is he can get overruled a lot more easily than before. Dave may really want to make a move but if Tom puts his foot down, sounds like the discussion is over and Tom wins. Whereas before the only one who would really say no is Khan. And since Khan isnt really a football guy, Dave probably had his way most of the time if not all the time. Not so much now. Dave may still be GM, but his authority over player decisions has clearly been reduced.
Quote:But sounds like the big difference is he can get overruled a lot more easily than before. Dave may really want to make a move but if Tom puts his foot down, sounds like the discussion is over and Tom wins. Whereas before the only one who would really say no is Khan. And since Khan isnt really a football guy, Dave probably had his way most of the time if not all the time. Not so much now. Dave may still be GM, but his authority over player decisions has clearly been reduced.
reduced and taken away isnt the same thing...The point that I am trying to get thru is that some process has been created to alleviate having to over rule caldwell if caldwell and coughlin dont agree on player personnel...Besides the fact the OP titled this thread with his idea of what the coughlin hiring really means..."Caldwell is no longer your gm" and I'm really not sure if it has been reduced...He reported to Khan who could over rule him too now it's just a matter of a different person he reports to
Quote:Either you didn't listen to it or you just want to argue...It said there is a process and the process and it will work 99.9% of the time...That's not the same thing you are trying to present
You really bought into the coach speak. 99 percent of the time, they all will just high five and agree with each other....sure.
Quote:reduced and taken away isnt the same thing...The point that I am trying to get thru is that some process has been created to alleviate having to over rule caldwell if caldwell and coughlin dont agree on player personnel...Besides the fact the OP titled this thread with his idea of what the coughlin hiring really means..."Caldwell is no longer your gm" and I'm really not sure if it has been reduced...He reported to Khan who could over rule him too now it's just a matter of a different person he reports to
The title is what the title is because Coughlin has the final say on the roster. Essentially, yes, Caldwell isnt in the same position per say as he was last year, he doesn't have the final say anymore. Therefore, he isnt your GM, though I should of put essential in the title, that would of been better. Dave Caldwell is the GM, but he reports to Tom Coughlin who is the VP Of Football Operations, who has the final say in the roster and all personnel decisions. You are refusing to believe what is right in front of you.
http://jacksonville.com/sports/2017-01-1...ug-marrone
Jaguars' new power structure: Tom Coughlin has final say over roster
Tom Coughlin will have final say on all of Jacksonville Jaguars' football decisions
Jaguars' reboot: Coughlin arrives with final say on roster
Tom Coughlin has final say over Jaguars roster | ProFootballTalk
Rapoport: Tom Coughlin has final say on football decisions - NFL Videos
Tom Coughlin is in charge because he is the head of football operations. He is the guy, he will make the final decisions, Caldwell will be right next to him. You are bypassing any facts that literally everyone but you wants to believe. All you showed me was the press conference were Shad Khan himself says Coughlin has the final say. He has the final say because he has the final say. Tom Coughlin is in charge, period. Caldwell works with him, they obviously will work together on the personnel decisions but Tom Coughlin will have the final say.
Dave Caldwell reported to Shad Khan because hes the owner and Caldwell was in charge of football operations until Coughlin arrived. That changed, now he has a boss who has the final say in football operations. Things did change, you just are refusing to believe that.
Pwm, why are you obsessed with this? As you can see there are NUMEROUS people that disagree with you, but you don't seem to want to even give an inch. It's a bit odd with how much you want to fight it.
Quote:Dave essentially got demoted so essentially Dave isnt your GM anymore, though by title he is.
Dave Caldwell is still the GM of the Jaguars, dude. Relax.
He just has a new boss.
He's still going to gather all of the info from his scouting department heads, assemble his own personnel reports , and then assemble his own big board of draft prospects.
He's still going to compile his own short list of potential free agent signings with his director of pro personnel.
It's just when it's time to make the
FINAL decisions, Caldwell will likely need a nod of approval from Coughlin to move forward.
Those things that he'll still be doing - just like he did before.... Being tasked with those exact same duties means he's the damn General Manager of the team. In title and
and in practice. He just has a new boss.
You can spout off about "final say" until we are all blue in the face. "final say" doesn't make you the GM. Doing the job does.
Quote:Dave Caldwell is still the GM of the Jaguars, dude. Relax.
He just has a new boss.
He's still going to gather all of the info from his scouting department heads, assemble his own personnel reports , and then assemble his own big board of draft prospects.
He's still going to compile his own short list of potential free agent signings with his director of pro personnel.
It's just when it's time to make the FINAL decisions, Caldwell will likely need a nod of approval from Coughlin to move forward.
Those things that he'll still be doing - just like he did before.... Being tasked with those exact same duties mean he's the damn General Manager of the team. In title and and in practice. He just has a new boss.
You can spout off about "final say" until we are all blue in the face. "final say" doesn't make you he GM. Doing the job does.
Who said he wasn't going to be doing those things? Not me.
Dave Caldwell is a good guy and has done a decent job but obviously the results haven't happened. Khan hired someone to get it turned around quickly. Dave will still be doing frankly everything you mentioned he just isnt the final say, Coughlin is. Dave will learn from the best and gain the necessary experience to build a sustained winning team and will take over full control once Coughlin steps down.
So yes, I agree with you.
Quote:Who said he wasn't going to be doing those things? Not me.
If he's doing those things - then he's the GM.
Your title and numerous posts say he is not.
Quote:
Dave is still going to do this thing, hes just got a guy that will have to rubber stamp anything to get approved and yes, Coughlin will be doing the exact same thing Dave is doing, only thing is, Coughlin has the final say.
Do you actually believe that? ^ That would be a really bad idea.
Quote:The only delusional person here is you for thinking Caldwell is just going to go back to business as usual. ...
...Caldwell isnt doing the job he once did, thats a fact.
Coughlin is essentially the GM.
Here's you saying those things you just said you didn't say. Again. ^
Quote:Dave essentially got demoted so essentially Dave isnt your GM anymore, though by title he is.
And again. ^
After a couple seasons, Caldwell will become one of the best GMs in the NFL because of what he will learn under Coughlin.
My biggest fear is that he leaves for a different team before Coughlin retires. I think he is going to be one of the best ever. I truly believe that it's why Khan kept him on and extended him despite Coughlin coming on board.
Quote:If he's doing those things - then he's the GM.
Your title and numerous posts say he is not.
Do you actually believe that? ^ That would be a really bad idea.
Here's you saying those things you just said you didn't say. Again. ^
And again. ^
What are you arguing LOL. Shall I bring up who has the final say again?
Quote:After a couple seasons, Caldwell will become one of the best GMs in the NFL because of what he will learn under Coughlin.
My biggest fear is that he leaves for a different team before Coughlin retires. I think he is going to be one of the best ever. I truly believe that it's why Khan kept him on and extended him despite Coughlin coming on board.
Yet a few on here are arguing for the sake of arguing that Coughlin isnt in charge and that Dave somehow is. I actually agree with you, I think Dave was kept because he has a lot of talent but they want someone that can turn it around quick and change the atmosphere, which is why Coughlin was brought in. He will make sure everything is in order.
We always get the preseason hype, but I'm looking forward to what Coughlin can bring to the table.
Quote:What are you arguing
Not arguing.
I showed you three times that you contradicted yourself. (Because you asked me too, remember? "when did I say....")
- and the second bit there with the bold was just pointing out how confused you are about Coughlin's job.
Can't wait for your "Doug Marrone is not the Head Coach" thread and your "Shad Khan is not the owner" follow-up.