Quote:The point is.. we got him. It should have been a moment of national celebration for all. But because O was at the helm when it happened, some view it as tainted. Perfect example of how fractured we are as a country.
Well, "O" sets that sort of mindset in motion..... instead of "we" its all about him..... (well for the positive stuff anyway.
remember this quote?..... "
I won".....
I truly don't. I remember "Mission Accomplished" though.
I just don't understand how some of you guys support either Bush or Obama they're practically the same. If you dislike the one by default you should oppose the other nothings changed.
Quote:I just don't understand how some of you guys support either Bush or Obama they're practically the same. If you dislike the one by default you should oppose the other nothings changed.
Establishment is establishment is establishment.
Obama won his first term because he appeared to buck that trend, now though its apparent to all but the most ardent left winger that he was just great at hiding that fact. Second term? Because the GOP to all but the core base of the party is a mess. A fractured sad mess.
Most people suck down the rhetoric and roll with the, my side is right your side is evil nonsense. I don't agree with a ton of things conservatives do or try to push as their agenda but I'm at least open minded enough to consider them.
Quote:Establishment is establishment is establishment.
Obama won his first term because he appeared to buck that trend, now though its apparent to all but the most ardent left winger that he was just great at hiding that fact. Second term? Because the GOP to all but the core base of the party is a mess. A fractured sad mess.
Most people suck down the rhetoric and roll with the, my side is right your side is evil nonsense. I don't agree with a ton of things conservatives do or try to push as their agenda but I'm at least open minded enough to consider them.
Related to what you mentioned in the 2nd paragraph, I believe there's 3 key reasons why Mitt Romney lost the 2012 Presidential Election:
1) Massive voter fraud.
2 ) Romney predictably ran a very politically correct campaign and was on the defensive consistently.
3 ) The following ties into your comments. The Romney Campaign and the establishment Republicans took for granted that the Conservative Republicans would vote for Romney. While I reluctantly voted for Romney because the alternative of a ' 2nd term' was a nightmare, millions of Conservative Republicans didn't come out to vote. Some voted for a 3rd party candidate. Unless the 2016 Republican nominee and the key decision makers in the party try to reach out to the Conservative Republicans, yet another uphill battle will unnecessarily take place.
Quote: Related to what you mentioned in the 2nd paragraph, I believe there's 3 key reasons why Mitt Romney lost the 2012 Presidential Election:
1) Massive voter fraud.
2 ) Romney predictably ran a very politically correct campaign and was on the defensive consistently.
3 ) The following ties into your comments. The Romney Campaign and the establishment Republicans took for granted that the Conservative Republicans would vote for Romney. While I reluctantly voted for Romney because the alternative of a ' 2nd term' was a nightmare, millions of Conservative Republicans didn't come out to vote. Some voted for a 3rd party candidate. Unless the 2016 Republican nominee and the key decision makers in the party try to reach out to the Conservative Republicans, yet another uphill battle will unnecessarily take place.
Show me evidence of mass voter fraud. I don't believe that for a second.
Romney was an odd cat. I liked the idea of someone with business acumen but he just seemed so out of touch and condescending at times to me. What did him in for me personally was "corporations are people too my friend" I can't get behind someone who so clearly supports corporate interference in policy and legal corruption of elections.
I do agree with your last paragraph. The GOP is fractured completely. Not in it's broken, I mean that it's split between hardcore right, ever shrinking moderates and tea party plus others I might not be aware of. It does split the vote very clearly. I think the GOP would have a great chance of culling independents and bringing the party back to it's roots if it stopped pandering to the extreme right.
Quote:Show me evidence of mass voter fraud. I don't believe that for a second.
Romney was an odd cat. I liked the idea of someone with business acumen but he just seemed so out of touch and condescending at times to me. What did him in for me personally was "corporations are people too my friend" I can't get behind someone who so clearly supports corporate interference in policy and legal corruption of elections.
I do agree with your last paragraph. The GOP is fractured completely. Not in it's broken, I mean that it's split between hardcore right, ever shrinking moderates and tea party plus others I might not be aware of. It does split the vote very clearly. I think the GOP would have a great chance of culling independents and bringing the party back to it's roots if it stopped pandering to the extreme right.
I will provide evidence of mass voter fraud.
The Republican Debate in which Mitt Romney offered to bet Rick Perry $ 10,000 illustrated how out of touch Mitt Romney was during the campaign.
What you call the extreme right is a voting block that the Republicans need if they are going to win Presidential elections against the type of candidates the Democrats are now fielding. Romney more than held his own with Independents in 2012 but he didn't get enough of the Conservative basis that should have been a given for him.
I am just assuming the second and third paragraphs are not your supportive evidence of voter fraud.
Quote: I will provide evidence of mass voter fraud.
The Republican Debate in which Mitt Romney offered to bet Rick Perry $ 10,000 illustrated how out of touch Mitt Romney was during the campaign.
What you call the extreme right is a voting block that the Republicans need if they are going to win Presidential elections against the type of candidates the Democrats are now fielding. Romney more than held his own with Independents in 2012 but he didn't get enough of the Conservative basis that should have been a given for him.
I understand it's a voting block that's important to them but I guess I always assumed it's a smaller percentage of the overall base.
Quote:Show me evidence of mass voter fraud. I don't believe that for a second.
The following is what I consider mass voter fraud. In 59 voting districts in Philadelphia, the vote total combined was 19,605-0 between the two candidates. Even by accident, Romney should have received a few votes, as a small percentage of the people inadvertently mark the ballot incorrectly in a typical election. Let alone based on the law of averages there being at least a few people who purposely voted for Romney.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Romney-...id/463799/
Quote:I am just assuming the second and third paragraphs are not your supportive evidence of voter fraud.
You are correct. I just provided what I truly believe was a major example of voter fraud.
Quote:It really bothers you that I can respond to your hyperbole huh?
I gotta say I'm disappointed in your ability to counter any points I make. I figured you and rollerjag would be good people to discuss politics with in a reasonable way. I could always tell we had different views but you've really done nothing to discuss any of the issues. You simply make hyperbole statements and then respond with silly remarks like the union hall or VFW thing.
I guess there really isn't much to your viewpoints it's the only assumption I can make since you make no case on any of it.
As I said, it's good to have a hobby. It's good for the soul. Your hobby is apparently political theory. I thought the subject matter was politics - you know, talking about people who have the guts to attempt to be in a position to formulate and implement policy.
And you're talking about Agenda 21.
You can type and type and type and type and type trying to convince 15 anonymous people on a football team's message board that you know the "real" story - that there are these super secret people behind the scenes pulling the strings. I've been reading such stuff forever. Might as well allude to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. None of it matters - other than to make you feel as if you are so much more pure of heart than the rest of us.
And you political purists are making things so much worse. Here we have B. Obama, perhaps the least qualified presidential candidate in the last 50 years,
get elected twice, easily. But you can puff your chest out and tell the guys how cool your fiscal theories are.
There are people out there who want real people running for office. And you're pushing Ted Cruz? If he ever gets behind the wheel he'll drive it right over the cliff. But you'll feel better.
You guys are your own worst enemy. You express doubt about Bin Laden being dead? D6 talks about "massive voter fraud"? It all starts to sound like Sarah Palin on weed. And thanks to theorists who don't know or care how to win elections we'll get to go through the whole Clinton years all over again
Thanks a lot.
Quote:As I said, it's good to have a hobby. It's good for the soul. Your hobby is apparently political theory. I thought the subject matter was politics - you know, talking about people who have the guts to attempt to be in a position to formulate and implement policy.
And you're talking about Agenda 21.
You can type and type and type and type and type trying to convince 15 anonymous people on a football team's message board that you know the "real" story - that there are these super secret people behind the scenes pulling the strings. I've been reading such stuff forever. Might as well allude to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. None of it matters - other than to make you feel as if you are so much more pure of heart than the rest of us.
And you political purists are making things so much worse. Here we have B. Obama, perhaps the least qualified presidential candidate in the last 50 years, get elected twice, easily. But you can puff your chest out and tell the guys how cool your fiscal theories are.
There are people out there who want real people running for office. And you're pushing Ted Cruz? If he ever gets behind the wheel he'll drive it right over the cliff. But you'll feel better.
You guys are your own worst enemy. You express doubt about Bin Laden being dead? D6 talks about "massive voter fraud"? It all starts to sound like Sarah Palin on weed. And thanks to theorists who don't know or care how to win elections we'll get to go through the whole Clinton years all over again
Thanks a lot.
Adam, for what it's worth, Eric is supporting Rand Paul. I'm the one who is supporting Ted Cruz.
As for the massive voter fraud comment, 19,605 to 0 in 59 voting districts speaks volumes.
Quote: Adam, for what it's worth, Eric is supporting Rand Paul. I'm the one who is supporting Ted Cruz.
As for the massive voter fraud comment, 19,605 to 0 in 59 voting districts speaks volumes.
It is pretty odd that not a single vote was recorded though snopes points out that nearly every district in philly Obama trounced Romney in the voting. Is it out of the realm of possibility that these districts, that were by all accounts almost entirely black and staunchly democratic, would not have a single vote cast for Romney? I believe I saw somewhere that nationwide Obama got something like 98% of the black vote. Not positive about that though.
Quote: Adam, for what it's worth, Eric is supporting Rand Paul. I'm the one who is supporting Ted Cruz.
As for the massive voter fraud comment, 19,605 to 0 in 59 voting districts speaks volumes.
Rand Paul or Ted Cruz - both of them have as much chance as I do of being your next President. They would be so easy to demonize you might as well tell Hilary to go on vacation during the campaign.
A belief in "massive voter fraud" will just keep Democrats in office. How about tailoring a campaign that will entice some voters - rather than sound like sore losers who can't prove what they complain about.
You cannot keep running negative agenda / holier than thou campaigns and expect to win. Which is why I think a lot of Republican/Tea Party/Libertarian types aren't into winning. With that comes responsibility and hard work.
It's easier to sit over there reading Milton Friedman or something.
Quote:It is pretty odd that not a single vote was recorded though snopes points out that nearly every district in philly Obama trounced Romney in the voting. Is it out of the realm of possibility that these districts, that were by all accounts almost entirely black and staunchly democratic, would not have a single vote cast for Romney? I believe I saw somewhere that nationwide Obama got something like 98% of the black vote. Not positive about that though.
Even if Obama got 99.7% of the black vote nationwide, which he clearly didn't get that high amount, it's still statistically impossible for a Republican candidate to get shutout 19,605-0. Just picture that amount of people in the same location. Can anyone truly envision every single one of them voting for the same candidate?
Quote:Even if Obama got 99.7% of the black vote nationwide, which he clearly didn't get that high amount, it's still statistically impossible for a Republican candidate to get shutout 19,605-0. Just picture that amount of people in the same location. Can anyone truly envision every single one of them voting for the same candidate?
I understand what you are saying and I even said it seemed odd. I am just saying it's not impossible, IMO, considering some of the disenfranchisement of black voters towards the GOP. I can absolutely envision small communities voting entirely one way. I mean the 19,605 is over 59 districts which averages out to 332.3 people. That to me are extremely small groups that could totally swing entirely one way.
Quote:Rand Paul or Ted Cruz - both of them have as much chance as I do of being your next President. They would be so easy to demonize you might as well tell Hilary to go on vacation during the campaign.
A belief in "massive voter fraud" will just keep Democrats in office. How about tailoring a campaign that will entice some voters - rather than sound like sore losers who can't prove what they complain about.
You cannot keep running negative agenda / holier than thou campaigns and expect to win. Which is why I think a lot of Republican/Tea Party/Libertarian types aren't into winning. With that comes responsibility and hard work.
It's easier to sit over there reading Milton Friedman or something.
Regarding what you mentioned regarding Ted Cruz or Rand Paul, the same thing was said by many about Ronald Reagan.
Hillary has a multitude of baggage. The key is let the potential voters know about the baggage. Those two candidates ( Cruz and Paul ) would almost certainly be more aggressive than the last two Republican Presidential candidates. Being that the Democrats are going to continue to be aggressive and do what it takes to win elections, the Republicans have to counter them. Positive messages ( what the candidate is planning on doing if elected and his/ her own background ) certainly is needed as a major part of the campaign. But playing defensively and not bring up the opposing candidates history and associations is a recipe for defeat.
Quote:I understand what you are saying and I even said it seemed odd. I am just saying it's not impossible, IMO, considering some of the disenfranchisement of black voters towards the GOP. I can absolutely envision small communities voting entirely one way. I mean the 19,605 is over 59 districts which averages out to 332.3 people. That to me are extremely small groups that could totally swing entirely one way.
Here's another way to look at it. In places like parts of rural Oklahoma and Wyoming for example, the vast majority of voters are Republicans that are much more Conservative than the typical urban Republican voter. If you can find even 1 election district anywhere in those states or anywhere in the country that voted 332-0 or more for a Republican Candidate ( with a Democrat on the ballot ) in any National or Local election in any given year, I will be shocked to say the least. Let alone in 59 districts.