Quote:But that is where IMO you are wrong. They still aren't seen as equals in 33 states. And the only way to break down barriers is to do exactly what Michael Sam did, break down barriers.
How am I wrong about wondering why people feel the need to "come out"?
Quote:Don't connect marriage to preference in this instance.
People can be opposed to one while really not caring what someone does behind closed doors.
If you polled folks, the majority would say they really don't care what his preference is. What bothers them is the in your face method the networks have used to try to force this on the population as a whole.
I don't care that Sam is gay any more than he cares that I'm straight. The difference here is he has decided to become an advocate by being so public about coming out. I'm convinced there was intent behind that action, and it was more about advancing his football career by going as public as he possibly could.
Like I've said before, a current player in the league who is gay (and there are gay players) should take this opportunity to come out. We'll find out very quickly that whoever it might be, it was probably pretty common knowledge he was gay, and teammates have been fine with it. Why? Because he's not out there in the media trying to become an advocate. It's simply who he is.
The media has made this a circus, and Sam has willingly played the role of subject. Once the novelty wears off, his career will fade away into the ether.
I certainly will connect the two. It is a huge part of equal rights. There is a difference between disagreeing and not allowing. Huge difference. You can disagree with gay people getting married while also saying they should have the RIGHT to get married whether I agree or not. If you don't care who someone is sleeping with then you shouldn't care if they marry whether you agree with it or not. It has no effect on your rights or your marriage.
[name="TravC59" post="205628" timestamp="1400006158"]
How am I wrong about wondering why people feel the need to "come out"?[/quote]
Because if people stayed in the closet there wouldn't be 17 states that allow gay marriage. There would be significantly more hate toward gay/lesbian population. That is something you arent connecting. How do you think we got to this point? By gay people keeping quiet?
Quote:#3 doesn't apply to Sam only. I am talking in general. Why the need to have to "come out" and make things official? #3 is the way it should be, live your life as you see fit. No need for some special celebration.
It's not a celebration. Coming out of the closet is difficult for many to do. People tend to assume you are straight, unless you say otherwise. Can you imagine the story if Michael Sam tried to hide the fact that he was gay from the team? Or if he didn't tell them at all, and it was discovered later?
Quote:[name="TravC59" post="205628" timestamp="1400006158"]
How am I wrong about wondering why people feel the need to "come out"?
Because if people stayed in the closet there wouldn't be 17 states that allow gay marriage. There would be significantly more hate toward gay/lesbian population. That is something you arent connecting. How do you think we got to this point? By gay people keeping quiet?
[/quote]
That makes the most sense to the the question posed thus far. I have always felt that "coming out" almost seems like the person is rationalizing something, or apologizing. When you have self confidence, or believe what you are doing is right then there is not a need to seek validation from others. Live your life as you see fit.
Quote:I have always felt that "coming out" almost seems like the person is rationalizing something, or apologizing. When you have self confidence, or believe what you are doing is right then there is not a need to seek validation from others. Live your life as you see fit.
It's hilarious just how backward you have it.
Quote:It's not a celebration. Coming out of the closet is difficult for many to do. People tend to assume you are straight, unless you say otherwise. Can you imagine the story if Michael Sam tried to hide the fact that he was gay from the team? Or if he didn't tell them at all, and it was discovered later?
Not based on some of the stories I've heard...
Quote:I have always felt that "coming out" almost seems like the person is rationalizing something, or apologizing. When you have self confidence, or believe what you are doing is right then there is not a need to seek validation from others. Live your life as you see fit.
You really think that is what they are doing? Seeking validation? Again if gay people kept quiet they would not have the rights they do, period. How are you not connecting this?
Quote:It's hilarious just how backward you have it.
Exactly. My point of view isn't in line with yours so it's backwards. I don't agree with what you feel, so it's complete lunacy.
Quote:I didn't say it was a perfect opportunity for you to tell them it was okay. I said it raised questions and was something parents had to address. It couldn't be hidden. How you addressed it is completely up to you. Maybe your kids never had a conversation about gay people. This was a perfect opportunity for you to explain your beliefs and also teach them that while we may not agree with homosexualtiy we also should respect other people's differences. That is a positive conversation and one that may not be had if your kids didn't see it.
I wasn't referring to your post I didn't see it to be honest. Someone I think it was Oklahomie mentioned it was the perfect opportunity to teach my kids same sex marriage is okay.
As for what you posted that's a great point, it is an opportunity to discuss how we treat people and what we believe as a family. All the same that's a conversation I prefer to table until my son is 1. old enough to understand why I believe a certain way and 2. old enough to form his own opinions one his belief system. I hope that my kids will follow my belief system but certainly do not intend to force them to do as I say or else.
some subjects and topics should just be tabled until the kids old enough to understand, at 6 at least my son, he's not there yet. Heck I'm happy he grasp the concept of look both ways before crossing the road at this point.
Quote:It's hilarious just how backward you have it.
I think he needs to get with Morgan Spurlock and spend 30 days in a gay man's shoes.
Quote:Exactly. My point of view isn't in line with yours so it's backwards. I don't agree with what you feel, so it's complete lunacy.
It's not that you don't agree with me, it's that you obviously don't understand one bit of what you're talking about.
Either someone is hiding their life and their feelings and they're in the closet or they're out.
And gays spent a lot of time through history hiding and praying no one found out, because if someone found out it was quite likely they would end up tied to the bumper of a truck and drug behind it until they were dead.
Quote:I wasn't referring to your post I didn't see it to be honest. Someone I think it was Oklahomie mentioned it was the perfect opportunity to teach my kids same sex marriage is okay.
As for what you posted that's a great point, it is an opportunity to discuss how we treat people and what we believe as a family. All the same that's a conversation I prefer to table until my son is 1. old enough to understand why I believe a certain way and 2. old enough to form his own opinions one his belief system. I hope that my kids will follow my belief system but certainly do not intend to force them to do as I say or else.
some subjects and topics should just be tabled until the kids old enough to understand, at 6 at least my son, he's not there yet. Heck I'm happy he grasp the concept of look both ways before crossing the road at this point.
Okay so if your kids sees straight people kissing before 6 that's okay?
Quote:It's not that you don't agree with me, it's that you obviously don't understand one bit of what you're talking about.
Either someone is hiding their life and their feelings and they're in the closet or they're out.
And gays spent a lot of time through history hiding and praying no one found out, because if someone found out it was quite likely they would end up tied to the bumper of a truck and drug behind it until they were dead.
I don't think that was to common, people have been gay for centuries heck in the Roman times it was common for men and women to be bisexual, you ever watch Game of Thrones!?
Quote:I don't think that was to common, people have been gay for centuries heck in the Roman times it was common for men and women to be bisexual, you ever watch Game of Thrones!?
And in Game of Thrones why do they hide it? Because of fear.
Quote:Okay so if your kids sees straight people kissing before 6 that's okay?
Who are you to tell him when and what he should teach his kid?
This is the part that annoys me the most. You are trying to force this down someones throat. Let them take time, digest it, and then move on. He may become more comfortable with it over time, but the way you guys are forcing this down their throats is a bit unbecoming.
Quote:I don't think that was to common, people have been gay for centuries heck in the Roman times it was common for men and women to be bisexual, you ever watch Game of Thrones!?
Yes, in some cultures it has been accepted, but not in the sort of puritan culture that has been a significant part of America for the last two centuries.
Even just a partial list of killings of LGBT victims in this wiki shows 45 killings just since 2010. Hate crimes. And it is much better now than it once was.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of...ted_States
Quote:Who are you to tell him when and what he should teach his kid?
This is the part that annoys me the most. You are trying to force this down someones throat. Let them take time, digest it, and then move on. He may become more comfortable with it over time, but the way you guys are forcing this down their throats is a bit unbecoming.
Lol what? I asked him a question. I haven't told him anything. This is a discussion. I'm not sure why you are upset.
Quote:Lol what? I asked him a question. I haven't told him anything. This is a discussion. I'm not sure why you are upset.
Don't imply that it's not his right to fill his kid's head with hatred! RABBLE RABBLE!
Also, follow up question Eric. Should they make it illegal for gay people to kiss on TV so you can teach them yourself at the time you choose? I'm trying to understand how to avoid your children seeing gay people kiss until you or you think they are ready for it.