Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Henne is garbage...plain and simple...you can try to dress it up with "he is the best option"..."he is a good team player"...ect...and some of that may be true...but it still does not change the fact he is garbage...and with him starting all year we will be picking in the top 5 next year.


And everyone who says this years QBs are average will be in here saying the same thing about next year's QB crop after a few have down years, or go back to college, ect...


Point is you can't keep "waiting until next year" to address the most important spot in all of team sports. Guess what we draft a guy in the first round this year...we will have a first round pick next year too and if we are in position to draft a "can't miss prospect" next year...then you take him...


now I am not saying we have to take a guy at three...but to think we can wait until the 3rd or 4th round to address this and pray we get an upper level game manager like the Seahawks is just stupid...

First part about Henne is dead on.

At best, he's a notch below average

Quote:This will make the 2nd draft in a row with no must have QB.

 

What's going on with the college QB's being NFL ready??  Where are all the NFL ready QB's in college? Has the tap run dry?

Andrew Luck happened. That's all really. He ruined QB evaluations for who knows how long.

 

If these were the same QBs 3 years earlier the media would be thinking of them as top 10 locks. Teddy would be the best QB prospect since probably Peyton, Bortles would be Big Ben 2.0, Carr would be Cutler with far better work ethic and coachability, etc. Now they all fall under 'If they aren't Luck they aren't worth a high 1st rounder'. 

Quote:We don't need to grab a QB in the first round to upgrade the position in this draft.  We just know there isn't a franchise QB who is worth grabbing at #3.  That doesn't mean there aren't guys in this draft who will turn out to have solid NFL careers. 

 

I don't see this as a problem.  We either find the guy we can rally around at QB this year, or we don't.  If it winds up the latter, then we'll look at this again next year. 

 

And this method of thinking is why the Jaguars have adopted this motto. "Wait till next year", this tune has been sung for years and years. BAP doesn't necessarily mean it will work out either. We need a fight at QB and someone with a purpose in that position. Whether we take him at 3, 6, 12, 200. The Browns adopted this motto and have been rebuilding since the 80's. They went BAP when they took Trent Richardson thinking they still had a first round pick later on and they took Brandon Weeden. We're still wondering when the Browns will ever get out of the "wait till next year" mode. Personally, I don't think there are any QB's worthy of a top 5 pick this year if I was drafting. But in the Jaguars case you "reach" for one. Can we really expect to get back on the horse this year with late-round picks?

HB...I would personally like to see him get into that 20 - 25 TD range with 12 - 14 INTs...with 3,500 - 3,800 yards...none of those stats are crazy...the problem is he has never really come close to these type of stats over the course of a season in his career.

Quote:HB...I would personally like to see him get into that 20 - 25 TD range with 12 - 14 INTs...with 3,500 - 3,800 yards...none of those stats are crazy...the problem is he has never really come close to these type of stats over the course of a season in his career.

 

I'd say that is pretty reasonable expectation for that tier of player.  He actually threw for 3241 yards starting 13 games last year, (he actually played in 15).  For some perspective, that figure was 18th in the NFL last year among starting QBs.  

 

He completed 60.1% of his passes last year which would put him at 24th among full time starters.  Below average.

 

He only had 13 TDs last year, which isn't very good obviously.  It puts him at 28th in the league last year.  Historically his TD/int ration hasn't been great.

 

Coming into his third year with the team, he's had two offensive coordinators so it'll be interesting to see what he can do this year with a second consecutive year in the system.  Some basic assumptions would be that the team as a whole will be more efficient and that the defense will be able to give the offense a few more opportunities here and there.  Also, with another year in the system, Henne should be a little more comfortable and hopefully make fewer mistakes.

 

Given that, I think a 5 percent improvement is reasonable over 16 games and projected based on what he did last year he could reasonably throw for about 3890 yards and 16 TDs.  Not spectacular numbers but not garbage either and respectable for a backup who is being forced into a starting role because we don't have our franchise guy yet.

The issue is that I think Henne has reached his ceiling...at best he is giving you 15 and 15 TDs to INTs...he is going to make the head scratching throw to end a drive or blow a game.  My worst fear is that we some how go 7 - 9 or 8 - 8 with Henne and all of a sudden we miss out on the top QBs next year...we are going absolutely no where with Henne at the helm...we really need to make a change...to be honest I don't even want him as a back up next year...and I actually really liked Henne coming out of college...

Quote:The issue is that I think Henne has reached his ceiling...at best he is giving you 15 and 15 TDs to INTs...he is going to make the head scratching throw to end a drive or blow a game.  My worst fear is that we some how go 7 - 9 or 8 - 8 with Henne and all of a sudden we miss out on the top QBs next year...we are going absolutely no where with Henne at the helm...we really need to make a change...to be honest I don't even want him as a back up next year...and I actually really liked Henne coming out of college...

 

Well hopefully that doesn't happen.  I think everyone agrees he's better suited as a backup and we need to get a franchise QB in here and get that guy ready for 2015 and beyond.  

Henne was David Garrard 2009 last season, and that's without the benefit of starting all 16 games.  I don't expect anything worse than Garrard from him.  Which, to a lot of people, wasn't so bad at all.  That will be fine short term.

Quote:And this method of thinking is why the Jaguars have adopted this motto. "Wait till next year", this tune has been sung for years and years. BAP doesn't necessarily mean it will work out either. We need a fight at QB and someone with a purpose in that position. Whether we take him at 3, 6, 12, 200. The Browns adopted this motto and have been rebuilding since the 80's. They went BAP when they took Trent Richardson thinking they still had a first round pick later on and they took Brandon Weeden. We're still wondering when the Browns will ever get out of the "wait till next year" mode. Personally, I don't think there are any QB's worthy of a top 5 pick this year if I was drafting. But in the Jaguars case you "reach" for one. Can we really expect to get back on the horse this year with late-round picks?

 

So, you don't think any of the QBs are worth a top 5 pick, but you advocate reaching for one.  When he fails, then what?  Howl and complain that the GM needs to go for reaching for someone who couldn't handle it? 

 

Seriously, you guys should really read the stuff you post before hitting the "Post" button. 

 

You say we need a fight at the QB position.  There's a lot of depth to the QB pool this year.  The problem is there's not a cast of characters that could be considered even remotely elite.  Some guys may rise, but you still don't want to reach for a QB.  There will be options, and I have no doubt this team is going to draft at least one QB next month.  They're not going to ignore the position.  They're just not going to make the mistake of over drafting either.

 

I don't want to see this team drafting a guy just for the sake of appearing to be trying.  I want them to make the right decision for what makes sense for this team.  We're not a QB away from anything at this point.  If we draft a guy we can develop into a solid or even good starter, I'm fine with that.  I'm not expecting an instant fix at QB because there's not a guy in the draft who is going to step in right away and give you that.

@Pirk...to be honest I think David is a better QB than Henne...and he was not great by any means...

Quote:Henne was David Garrard 2009 last season, and that's without the benefit of starting all 16 games.  I don't expect anything worse than Garrard from him.  Which, to a lot of people, wasn't so bad at all.  That will be fine short term.

 

I think Garrard was a slightly better QB with less weapons. If Blackmon, Shorts etc actually play 16 games I could see Henne put up semi dent numbers i.e 3,400+ yards, 20 TDs, 15-20ish ints.. I also agree if we found a franchise QB at 3 we pick him because we may not get this high of a pick next year.

Quote:@Pirk...to be honest I think David is a better QB than Henne...and he was not great by any means...

 

I think Garrard is very much on par with Henne. Different skills, but the same distinct flaw.  Lousy decision making.  Both guys can look very good, and both can be monumentally bad. 

Quote:I think Garrard is very much on par with Henne. Different skills, but the same distinct flaw.  Lousy decision making.  Both guys can look very good, and both can be monumentally bad. 

Just curious FBT.. what does Henne's best season (that he is cable of) look like?

Quote:I think Garrard was a slightly better QB with less weapons. If Blackmon, Shorts etc actually play 16 games I could see Henne put up semi dent numbers i.e 3,400+ yards, 20 TDs, 15-20ish ints.. I also agree if we found a franchise QB at 3 we pick him because we may not get this high of a pick next year.

 

But, there isn't a franchise QB at 3.  Every one of the "top" tier QBs has significant enough flaws.  There's no Andrew Luck, and it's irrelevant what the situation is next year.  If the team is improving, and the record pushes them down in the draft, there are still ways to go get the guy you want, and the draft next year should be a good one for QB options. 

FBT...I am not sure I have seen Henne look good...his best game as a Jag was the Texans game where Blackmon exploded two years ago...but IMO that was ALL Blackmon...he turned short throws into 60+ yard TDs...

 

I do agree that both have bad decision making at times...but at least you got positive TD to INT ratios most years with David and he could run when needed...Henne is more likely to give you more INTs/TOs than TDs on a yearly basis...and add in bone headed mistakes...which in my mind why he is behind David.

 

Of course arguing who is better Garrard or Henne is like seeing who the tallest midget is really...at the end of the day who cares the both come up short.

Quote:Just curious FBT.. what does Henne's best season (that he is cable of) look like?

 

If all things are clicking for Henne, and he gets Blackmon back on the field along with another WR option, and the line issues are addressed, he's good for probably 3,500, 20/15.  Nothing spectacular, but workable for a year while they groom the guy they'll draft in the 2nd round.  Henne's capable of putting up better than average stats.  But, there's always going to be the lingering concern about mistakes.  They're bound to happen.  They can be minimized if all things around him are working as expected, but we know that's never going to happen. 

Quote:But, there isn't a franchise QB at 3.  Every one of the "top" tier QBs has significant enough flaws.  There's no Andrew Luck, and it's irrelevant what the situation is next year.  If the team is improving, and the record pushes them down in the draft, there are still ways to go get the guy you want, and the draft next year should be a good one for QB options. 

Perhaps there is not but I could also see some teams throwing smoke screens on the guy they want. I like Manziel (based on what he could be) but maybe not at 3.

It should be good FBT...but what if BOTH Mariota and Winston return to school...both still have two years of eligibility left...and just about every year one of the top QBs before the year has a bad year and falls down boards...

 

I am not advocating taking a QB at #3 if you don't believe in him...but on the other hand you can't keep waiting for a draft that has a Luck in it before addressing the position in a long term fashion.

Quote:FBT...I am not sure I have seen Henne look good...his best game as a Jag was the Texans game where Blackmon exploded two years ago...but IMO that was ALL Blackmon...he turned short throws into 60+ yard TDs...

 

I do agree that both have bad decision making at times...but at least you got positive TD to INT ratios most years with David and he could run when needed...Henne is more likely to give you more INTs/TOs than TDs on a yearly basis...and add in bone headed mistakes...which in my mind why he is behind David.

 

Of course arguing who is better Garrard or Henne is like seeing who the tallest midget is really...at the end of the day who cares the both come up short.

 

I'm sorry, but regardless of what Blackmon did, the stat remains the same.  We don't need Henne throwing the ball 60 yards in the air in order for him to be productive.  Nobody was complaining when Garrard would throw a 5 yard cross that broke for a 40+ yard TD, and I doubt they'd be disappointed if Henne did it either. 

 

Henne is a guy who is going to stand in the pocket and deliver the pass.  It may not always end well, but I would rather have a guy who is standing there trying to make a play vs. a guy who was notorious for self sacking himself by running out of bounds behind the line.

 

People want to romanticize Garrard for some reason, but the reality is, on a good day, he was a slightly better than average QB.  The same is true for Henne.  Neither is going to set the world on fire.  Neither would be part of the long term plan.  But, for now, he can get the job done for a team that has low expectations, so Henne is going to be the guy whether people like it or not.  Hopefully he rises to the challenge now that he's walking into a season knowing it's his job.