Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I hate that I can't quote for some reason...HA HA

 

 

@FBT...why do you think Henne is "good for 20/15 and 3,500 yards" when he has never thrown for more TDs than INTs nor ever thrown for more than 3,300 yards in a season?

Quote:Perhaps there is not but I could also see some teams throwing smoke screens on the guy they want. I like Manziel (based on what he could be) but maybe not at 3.

 

Smoke screens don't mask the fact that he's short, or that he's not a guy who is comfortable working within a game plan.  They don't hide the fact that it's easier to improvise in the SEC than it is in the NFL.

 

Smoke screens don't make Bridgewater bigger.

 

Smoke screens don't elevate Bortles to Andrew Luck status.

 

All three have flaws.  That's not a smoke screen.  It's a simple fact.  Those flaws are pushing them down draft boards.  Still first round, but not top 5, and definitely not top 3.

Quote:It should be good FBT...but what if BOTH Mariota and Winston return to school...both still have two years of eligibility left...and just about every year one of the top QBs before the year has a bad year and falls down boards...

 

I am not advocating taking a QB at #3 if you don't believe in him...but on the other hand you can't keep waiting for a draft that has a Luck in it before addressing the position in a long term fashion.

I think if there is a guy Caldwell and Bradley believe in at #3 than you take him. It's that simple. If not you select the best defensive player available (probably Mack at that point) then a QB in round 2 or 3.

Quote:Smoke screens don't mask the fact that he's short, or that he's not a guy who is comfortable working within a game plan.  They don't hide the fact that it's easier to improvise in the SEC than it is in the NFL.

 

Smoke screens don't make Bridgewater bigger.

 

Smoke screens don't elevate Bortles to Andrew Luck status.

 

All three have flaws.  That's not a smoke screen.  It's a simple fact.  Those flaws are pushing them down draft boards.  Still first round, but not top 5, and definitely not top 3.

I agree it dosen't mask their flaws however if a team thinks a certain QB has potential to be great then there is a good chance they are going to take him (even in the top 5). It's a gamble but still. I also think the rookie salary cap changes some decisions and gambles. just my opinion.

I am not romantizing Garrard at all...but his best year under center blows Henne's out of the water...as for the long TDs being short passes...I say that about any QBs that do it...much like Tebow's passes in the win over the Steelers...it was all the WRs...just like IMO it was all Blackmon...you're not a good QB when you throw the ball in the air 5 yards and your WR makes people miss, out runs some...and goes 60+ yards for a TD...I don't care what the stats say.

 

As for let's see how good he is "knowing the jobs his"...how does that make him a better QB?

 

We are on the same page though with wanting a QB to stand in the pocket and deliver the pass vs. self sacking...

Quote:I hate that I can't quote for some reason...HA HA

 

 

@FBT...why do you think Henne is "good for 20/15 and 3,500 yards" when he has never thrown for more TDs than INTs nor ever thrown for more than 3,300 yards in a season?

 

What he's done in the past is hardly relevant.  He'll be in year 2 of this offense, and hopefully he'll have more weapons to work with this season.  If the line play improves, and we get some production out of the running game, those numbers are very achievable.  He put up over 3,200 yards passing last year where he only started 13 games behind a patchwork offensive line, with a skeleton receiving corps, and little to no running game.  It isn't a stretch to think that with a few improvements on that side of the ball, he can increase his stats.  Putting up another 250 yards in 3 games isn't a stretch. 

 

I seriously think you guys are just so jaded you can't see that it wasn't ALL awful with Henne last year.  Yes, the mistakes were painful, but it's nothing we didn't see on a fairly regular basis from Gabbert, and Garrard before him. 

 

With a few fixes on the offensive line, I think Henne could bump up the TD numbers and keep the interception number below the TD figure.  Those are not gawdy stats I'm predicting, but if we can get that from him, we're looking at a 7 or 8 win season as long as the defense does their thing.

Quote:I think if there is a guy Caldwell and Bradley believe in at #3 than you take him. It's that simple. If not you select the best defensive player available (probably Mack at that point) then a QB in round 2 or 3.

The problem is, I don't think there's a guy they feel is worth #3.  That's my point.  I think they've got their eye on a QB, but I don't think it's a guy that they'll need to reach for with that first pick.  I'm fairly confident they're going defense with #3.  If not Clowney, then Mack.  Otherwise, they're trading out of the pick. 

Every time I hear Bradley talk about Henne, he always talks about how much he progressed as the season went on, and credited him for playing his best at the end of the season when the team was playing .500 ball.  Unfortunately Bradley's the only one I hear giving him credit for playing well down the stretch.

Quote:I am not romantizing Garrard at all...but his best year under center blows Henne's out of the water...as for the long TDs being short passes...I say that about any QBs that do it...much like Tebow's passes in the win over the Steelers...it was all the WRs...just like IMO it was all Blackmon...you're not a good QB when you throw the ball in the air 5 yards and your WR makes people miss, out runs some...and goes 60+ yards for a TD...I don't care what the stats say.

 

As for let's see how good he is "knowing the jobs his"...how does that make him a better QB?

 

We are on the same page though with wanting a QB to stand in the pocket and deliver the pass vs. self sacking...

 

Sorry, but Garrard was no better than Derek Anderson.  Henne's around the same level, sharing the same Jekyll/Hyde tendencies.  But unlike Garrard, it doesn't seem like folks have unrealistic expectations of him.  In fact, it's the opposite as he's probably being short changed a tad.

I see what you are saying...I just have a hard time thinking it will happen since he has yet to put up more TDs than INTs in his 7 year career...and if I am not mistaken he even had Brandon Marshall in his prime for at least one of those years.

 

I wouldn't say I am jaded but IMO there were no bright spots for Henne last year...only a few dim ones...and it feels like we, as a fanbase, are making the same excuses for Henne that we made for Gabbert and Garrard and Lefty..."if the line plays better"..."if we get him more weapons"..."if..."

 

my worst fear is that the team, in spite of Henne, hits 7 - 9 wins...and we are outside of the place to get one of the predicted franchise guys next year and we either get that second tier guy or sell the farm for one of the upper tier guys...

Quote:I am not romantizing Garrard at all...but his best year under center blows Henne's out of the water...as for the long TDs being short passes...I say that about any QBs that do it...much like Tebow's passes in the win over the Steelers...it was all the WRs...just like IMO it was all Blackmon...you're not a good QB when you throw the ball in the air 5 yards and your WR makes people miss, out runs some...and goes 60+ yards for a TD...I don't care what the stats say.

 

As for let's see how good he is "knowing the jobs his"...how does that make him a better QB?

 

We are on the same page though with wanting a QB to stand in the pocket and deliver the pass vs. self sacking...

 

Garrard's best year was a ho-hum statistical season.  The TD to INT ratio was what it was because he was terrified to take risks.  How many times did we watch him see an open receiver, pat the ball and hesitate, and go to his dump off? 

 

You say you're not a good QB if you throw the ball 5 yards and the guy goes for 60.  That's pretty much what Garrard lived off of during his time here, but somehow you're not romanticizing him? 

 

Henne was interviewed in the locker room yesterday, and his entire tone was completely different from what we heard last year.  He's clearly focused on proving the naysayers wrong.  He's made it very clear that he needs to improve.  I think he's expressing more confidence in not only his ability to get better, but he's trusting the front office to improve what he's got to work with on the field, and he's trusting the coaches to put him in a position to do more with the offense.  It may not be dramatic improvement, but it doesn't need to be.  He's filler for this year and nothing more.  He understands that, and I think it's going to motivate him to up his game.  Knowing he's the starter walking into the season will allow him to focus on getting better. 

Pirk I don't think Henne is being short changed...nothing in his career shows that he can be what some think he can be...

Quote:There are at least a dozen current backup QBs better than Henne. That says plenty. 

 

 

Quote:Vick, McCown, Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Cassel, and Freeman are no question better than Henne to me. Tjax, Hill, and Flynn maybe as well. All of them were FA this year. I don't begrudge Dave for not going after them because as a bridge to a true franchise QB who really cares it's fine to just keep the guy who has been in the system, and even though all of those guys were probably upgrades they aren't the long term answer either so it's whatever. 

 

The point was moreso that he's pretty much the worst starting QB in the league, or ideally a mid level backup. 

Your point is valid - but I do have to laugh at "at least a dozen" turning into "6 maybe  9."  

Quote:I see what you are saying...I just have a hard time thinking it will happen since he has yet to put up more TDs than INTs in his 7 year career...and if I am not mistaken he even had Brandon Marshall in his prime for at least one of those years.

 

I wouldn't say I am jaded but IMO there were no bright spots for Henne last year...only a few dim ones...and it feels like we, as a fanbase, are making the same excuses for Henne that we made for Gabbert and Garrard and Lefty..."if the line plays better"..."if we get him more weapons"..."if..."

 

my worst fear is that the team, in spite of Henne, hits 7 - 9 wins...and we are outside of the place to get one of the predicted franchise guys next year and we either get that second tier guy or sell the farm for one of the upper tier guys...

 

Every situation is different.  He put up 3240 yards last year behind that line with that receiving corps and no running game, and he did it in 13 games. 

 

Unless we're at the bottom of the first round, I really think the focus next year is going to be to go after one of those QBs, unless of course we draft a guy this year who turns out to be the guy.  There will be opportunity for that.

 

I really don't get this logic that anyone is "making excuses" for Henne.  The line HAS to get better.  That's a given.  It's not an excuse.  The same thing is true of the receivers.  Minus Blackmon, it's not the same unit.  How exactly is that an excuse?  And MJD stunk on ice last year.  If we don't have an effective running game, throwing the ball is made more difficult.  Not an excuse.  Simple facts that would apply to ANY QB.  I've yet to see a stud QB making plays from his back on a consistent basis.

 

This offense is being built for the next guy.  We'll see who that is eventually.  In the meantime, it's Henne's job.  There isn't an Andrew Luck waiting in the wings to be drafted.

Quote:Pirk I don't think Henne is being short changed...nothing in his career shows that he can be what some think he can be...

 

What lofty expectations does anyone have for Henne?  I think most have set pretty pedestrian benchmarks,including myself. 

I am not romanticizing him in the sense that I think he is better than he was...I agree...it was very frustrating watching him miss open WRs or not throw it when he should.

 

My question is shouldn't he have been focused on getting better EVERY year?  isn't getting better what would have given him the starting job before?  What else did he have to focus on?  I just don't get how knowing he is penciled in as the starter going into camp is going to somehow make him a better QB. 

 

It is just my opinion but he has reached his peak in my mind...maybe I am wrong...Honestly I would love to be...I would love for this "backing" or "new found ability to focus on getting better" or whatever turned him into a very good QB allowing us to move on with him...but I don't see it...I see it being another painful year at The Bank for Jags fans...

Quote:The problem is, I don't think there's a guy they feel is worth #3.  That's my point.  I think they've got their eye on a QB, but I don't think it's a guy that they'll need to reach for with that first pick.  I'm fairly confident they're going defense with #3.  If not Clowney, then Mack.  Otherwise, they're trading out of the pick. 

 

I will believe it when I see it. You know as well as I do how unpredictable drafts often are. Also I agree on your point about Henne only starting 13 game and having the same system for a second consecutive year. I think Henne hit's closer to 3,800 yards last year assuming he had started every game.. especially if Blackmon had kept playing. Also I appreciate the respectful cander despite disagreeing on somethings. I wish more posters here would do that.

Quote:I will believe it when I see it. You know as well as I do how unpredictable drafts often are. Also I agree on your point about Henne only starting 13 game and having the same system for a second consecutive year. I think Henne hit's closer to 3,800 yards last year assuming he had started every game.. especially if Blackmon had kept playing. Also I appreciate the respectful cander despite disagreeing on somethings. I wish more posters here would do that.

 

I think things are starting to come into shape for the draft, and the QBs are not at the top of the draft.  Not even close.  That's not going to change dramatically between now and May 8. 

 

I'm being realistic with Henne and what my expectations are.  I think the team is going to try to be more balanced, and if the running game is more effective this season, it will be reflected in the passing game.  He probably could have hit 3800 yards last year had he started all 16 games.  I think with more balance, and more weapons, 3,500 is almost a lay up for him.  I agree that Blackmon is key in any success for this offense, and knowing we might not have him is disconcerting.  It creates a situation where the team is going to have to address the WR position, which is another reason the QB at 3 is less likely. 

 

I just don't see a QB at #3, and I haven't for a while. 

I didn't mean making excuses for Henne specifically...more that we seem to be saying the exact same things about Henne as every other QB we have had since Mark B..."he just needs better line play"..."he just needs more weapons"..."we need the D to step up"...ect...

 

To me they are excuses because a franchise QB makes a lot of that better...Manning made an oline of undrafted guys look like all pros...Brady has made pedestrian at best WRs look like all pros...sometimes running lanes open up when teams are forced to respect the pass...ect.

 

I to think the focus is going to be to get a franchise guy...if not this year then next.

 

I didn't say lofty expectations...I simply said nothing in his career has shown he can be what some think he can be...in other words...nothing in his career has shown he can be a 20/12-15 guy...

Quote:Pirk I don't think Henne is being short changed...nothing in his career shows that he can be what some think he can be...

 

I believe the issue is what you think some think he can be.  At best, he'll be a QB that doesn't get in the way and I think he's got a great shot at being that QB in the short term.  That's all we need until we land a franchise QB, and that QB is ready to play.