Quote:Wrong. I said I don't trust Khan but never said one negative word about Bradley or Caldwell. Now I'm saying they own this team.
And you have the audacity to say Caldwell and Dave are "tanking" so we can get a new QB?? Wow, now that right there is reason to like them. HIre a coach and GM who are purposely tanking the season. Do you think Khan knows this? Do you want them to be GM and coach again next year if you know they have this character trait to purposely tank a season? Do you want to buy tickets to a game knowing the coach is tanking the season? Do you think players want to play for a coach who is purposely tanking? Wow. Just Wow.
Regards................the Chiefjag
I don't think they're tanking the season so much as writing it off. The team is so void of talent that there's not much that could be done in a single year to make this team competitive.
That this team doesn't have talent is all on Gene and Shack. Dave has had all of one off-season to find talent. Why expect Rookies to make a showing in their first year, when you didn't when Gene was the GM?
Remember the old saying? Rome wasn't built in a day. Well we just got rid of the old Architect because he decided to build near a mountain, and the fire gods got angry and made red stuff come out of the mountain. And instead of calling it Rome, he decided to call it some silly name that starts with a P and ends with an I.
Quote:We have the lowest payroll in the league and probably one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the league ---- this is what you get for a low budget. We're like the Pirates and Royals of the past.
And the Giants have one of the highest paid coaching staffs in the NFL and they're 0-3.
Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, but don't let that get in the way of your silly "point".
Quote:And the Giants have one of the highest paid coaching staffs in the NFL and they're 0-3.
Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, but don't let that get in the way of your silly "point".
Difference is they have a QB, he's having a bad year thus far but we know he can play at a high level. We don't.
Quote:Bradfield was the starter. Bringing up Whimper is a straw man argument.
Certainly there's room for disagreement, but at this point I don't see Joeckel doing any better than Bradfield did last year.
I saw at least two missed tackles by Cyprien yesterday. He's not better than Landry at this point.
And that was the OP's statement that there has not been one position so far where the play is better. Hayes is not better than Daryl Smith. Whether he's younger or not is immaterial. Neither one is a long-term solution at LB.
Marks and Miller are probably just as good as Alualu and Knighton, but not better.
It takes time for rookies to develop, and I wouldn't expect Joeckel and Cyprien to be better at this point. But Caldwell chose not to sign a single starter-quality player in free agency, and this year free agency was the best bargain it has ever been. Whether you agree or disagree with that choice, it has resulted in a lack of upgraded play at this point, and ChiefJag can make that claim.
Bradfield was benched for Whimper late in the season.
Source:
http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2012/12/22/...whimper-rt
Better than Landry or not at this point, how about next year? And how about the fact that Landry will be 31 this year? Did Landry never miss tackles?
Why is being younger or not immaterial? Next year Hayes will still be younger than Daryl Smith. And by the time this defense is ready in 2 or 3 years, Daryl Smith will be 33 or 34. Geno Hayes will be 28 or 29.
And who was available for the Jaguars to sign? Please provide names. And remember that Caldwell couldn't make them sign and that hindsight is 20/20.
Quote:Bradfield was the starter. Bringing up Whimper is a straw man argument.
Certainly there's room for disagreement, but at this point I don't see Joeckel doing any better than Bradfield did last year.
I don't think you guys actually believe this. You're just trying to be as outlandish as possible. But this just makes you look dumb.
Quote:I don't think they're tanking the season so much as writing it off. The team is so void of talent that there's not much that could be done in a single year to make this team competitive.
That this team doesn't have talent is all on Gene and Shack. Dave has had all of one off-season to find talent. Why expect Rookies to make a showing in their first year, when you didn't when Gene was the GM?
Remember the old saying? Rome wasn't built in a day. Well we just got rid of the old Architect because he decided to build near a mountain, and the fire gods got angry and made red stuff come out of the mountain. And instead of calling it Rome, he decided to call it some silly name that starts with a P and ends with an I.
I don't think they're even writing it off. They're using this season to identify the nucleus for the team moving forward. Were they expecting the team to compete for a title? No. Not after the same roster won 7 games over the past 2 years. So, as upset as some are by the Jags not aggressively working to retain their free agents, the reality is these guys we lost weren't setting anything on fire with their play. Moving on from oft-injured or aging veterans as part of the process makes complete sense.
The mindset of some here that if you let a guy like Daryl Smith walk, you'd better replace him with someone of equal or better production misses the point of the overall process. You're not necessarily going to replace a veteran right away with someone who can carry the load. Not when you're doing a comprehensive, ground up rebuild of the roster to begin with. My guess is you'll see a very different roster again next year, but you'll also see a transition in the approach taken as they've now cleared the decks of players who don't fit with what they want to do moving forward. I fully expect them to continue to focus on building through the draft, but I think you'll see them being more active in free agency identifying players who they can plug in as long term solutions. This year was about rebuilding the nucleus of a bad team. Next year they will expand upon that plan.
Like I've said before, if we don't see the team taking a significant turn for the better next year, then there's cause to question the direction Caldwell wants to take it. It's difficult to be patient after watching this team stink for years, but that's all we can do as fans.
Quote:I was not a Gene guy, and am not a Caldwell guy (yet). I have no problem with those who argue that we have to be patient. I do disagree with those who claim that the team is on the right track or that Caldwell is better than Gene. It's way too early to tell that yet.
Blowing up a roster is the easy part. Replacing those who are gone with better players is the hard part. So far Caldwell has only accomplished the easy part. Some of the rookies will probably turn out to be better than the players they replaced, but we don't even know that yet. I see what I consider a few missed opportunities already from Caldwell, although none as egregious as the Alualu pick.
Not sure what you mean by the last sentence because Caldwell didn't pick Alualu. And if you think Alualu was Gene's worst pick, you are wrong. It is Anger and it's not even close.
Quote:
Being younger is immaterial because the OP's statement was about the play of the roster through the first three games. Do you really want Geno Hayes to still be the starter 2-3 years from now?
Nobody is saying he will be. Considering he signed a 2 yr/2 million dollar deal it is safe to say he is not looked at as a long term starter.
What Caldwell has done better than Gene at this point (and at this point you can't argue that he's better or worse than Gene Smith) is not trade away future picks. In Gene's first year he decided to use his second round pick a year early. I've never really understood why teams (especially ones that are rebuilding like we were when Gene came in) trade a 2nd round pick a year later for a 3rd round pick a year earlier.
The Alualu pick would not have been so egregious if we had a second round pick that year. Or a second round pick in 2011 (which we used to grab Blaine Gabbert). Yes, we used that pick to get Derek Cox. But by not trading down, and reaching in the first... that draft was all but guaranteed to be pretty bad.
You either accept the plan or you don't - and you hope for the best either way.
Thank god there is a plan, as I'm not sure the Jaguars had one before Khan/Caldwell.
Acting like a grumpy, old man doesn't do any good.
I don't think the Jags are trying to tank, write the season off, etc. I think they are trying to win every game. The personnel is just not that good!. Difficult concept to grasp, I know, but we'll just have to wait and see if Caldwell does a better job than Smith did at procuring good players.
Good thing the Jaguars aren't coached by that guy Coughlin of Jim Harbough - they obviously don't have a clue what they're doing.
Quote:I was referring to Gene's mistake.
In retrospect it was a huge error to take Anger over Wilson. But 32 GM's made that mistake in round 2. I view the Alualu pick as a worse error because it was a 1st round mistake and any competent GM would have known better.
But any competent GM also would know not to take a punter in round 3. I mean come on... It's a punter.
Quote:1. A lot of ballbusting on the Chief. I'm curious, how many here are season ticket holders as long as him?
2. The NFL isn't about 4-5 year rebuilding anymore, and when you gut a complete team, then move home games away, bring in huge tv screens, win less than 3 games, raise ticket prices...it seems like all fluff and no substance. Marketing has certainly took precedence this year.
Patience? What would one call sitting in the stands for over 17 years?
3. And for those who clamor for Bridgewater, this team needs a lot more than that. For every Luck or Manning theres a Tebow, Leinhart and Young out there.
4. They need to pick up a veteran QB next year and not throw a rookie in right away...not with the host of other needs this team needs.
1. I've been a season ticket holder since the inaugural season. However, that is largely immaterial for the purposes of this discussion. Tenure as a season ticket holder does not insulate you from criticism when you have taken an untenable or onreasonable position on a message board as he has, nor does a lack of tenure as a season ticket holder necessarily preclude you from providing good insight on a given subject. As far as saying insulting or inappropriate stuff to people on the board, very few on this board have completely clean hands on this issue. Chief is not one of them. He has engaged in his fair share of vituperative dissonance.
2. Who said it doesn't take time to rebuild anymore? The Dolphins are currently at 3-0 after how many years of mediocrity, including a 1-15 season? The 49ers spent EIGHT straight seasons at .500 or below, including a 2-14, 4-12, and a 5-11 season before reaching the NFC title game in the 2011 season and the Super Bowl last year. The microwave contenders the Colts represent are an anomaly. Going from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck in one offseason is an aberration. Rebuilding still takes time.
3. There are busts for every conceivable position you could draft. Should you not draft anyone at any position? What exactly would you recommend to restock the team, if not through the draft?
4. Who is the veteran QB the team should sign? Why would he be available?
Quote: I view the Alualu pick as a worse error because it was a 1st round mistake
I agree. While I think missing out on Russell Wilson was horrible in hindsight, no one was expecting a small 3rd round QB to accomplish what he has so far. That could end up being a Tom Bradyish type pick except it happened in the 3rd round.
On the other hand drafting Alualu and trading up for Blaine Gabbert were way were IMO. With Alualu we passed on who I really wanted in Dez Bryant. And then by trading up for Gabbert we passed on JJ WATT who I wasn't 100% sold on at the time, but I also was a huge fan of Ryan Kerrigan in that draft. We also didn't get a 2nd round pick that year in which we could have gotten more.
So I look at those two moves as being the worst.
ANGER WAS OUR BEST DRAFT PICK EVER........ GENE SMITH WAS A PROPHET...