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(03-07-2018, 07:08 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 06:27 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny how early on the entire fanbase except for oline matters was in unison saying we want to give Arob a deal or at the very least tag him, even to the point of ridiculing oline matters for not going along with the hoard. Now the Jags decide not to tag him and there is a whole lot of "not worth the money" and "down year and then injured" and "50/50 jump ball only player" and more going on.
What changed? Nothing. Stop being sycophantic the reasons to want to keep Arob are just as strong now as they were then.
Just people trying to convince themselves that we don't need him when they know better.
Aayone who thinks losing him won't hurt us is out of there mind.
I certainly would love to have him back. But im not going to act like its the end of the world and the season is over if he walks either. Would he make this team better? Sure. But how much better? 16 million per year average better? Doubtful.
(03-07-2018, 07:43 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 07:35 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Of course we would have been better with him but I’m am dealing with what happened not hypotheticals.
The facts are we went to an AFC title game without him and had a top 11 offense. He did tear his ACL prior to any of that happening and his last good year was 2015. Am I missing something?
You damn right I would lol. No one is saying he sucks. I don’t think I’ve said that. But it’s not the end of the world without him like some believe. We literally witnessed what that looks like last year. I have never seen him contribute to a winning season. On top of that he tore his ACL. Why are we dismissing this fact?
Everything I’m talking about is based on what we witnessed. Everything you are speaking on is what you think would happen. We will never see eye to eye when that is the case.
Yes we had a great season in 2017 without our #1 24 year old pro bowl caliber receiver. Unfortunately we are talking about 2018 and beyond now.
That doesn't mean its a good or wise decision for the front office to let him go either. We would have been better with him last year and we will be better with him if he was here next year.
We have the cap to do it and enough flexibility for it have little impact down the line.
It would be a no brainer to most teams to keep him.
(03-07-2018, 07:42 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s not all or nothing for me. I can want the guy back but say good riddance if the price isn’t right lol.
Very simple concept
What would the right price be for you?
How do you know what he is asking for ? and how much ?
Doug Marrone drafted Sammy Watkins with the Bills. Wouldn't surprise me if he wants him here with even less of ARob's money.
(03-07-2018, 07:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 07:43 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Yes we had a great season in 2017 without our #1 24 year old pro bowl caliber receiver. Unfortunately we are talking about 2018 and beyond now.
That doesn't mean its a good or wise decision for the front office to let him go either. We would have been better with him last year and we will be better with him if he was here next year.
We have the cap to do it and enough flexibility for it have little impact down the line.
It would be a no brainer to most teams to keep him.
What would the right price be for you?
How do you know what he is asking for ? and how much ?
I'd imagine it's anywhere between 12-16 million and 30+ guaranteed. The first year of it is likely proving to be a point of contention to structure wise.
What would be the right price for you ?
The issue is that he didn’t contribute to the success of the team last year. I don’t want to over pay for a player who is coming off a major injury, didn’t contribute to the teams success and we don’t even know if he can produce at a high level consistently. Yes he made the pro bowl (after Calvin Johnson retired) but we only saw that one time and that was two years ago. And the was pre injury (I’m starting to say the same things again).
I don’t want us over paying for that and jeopardize signing the guys who actually contributed to the teams success.
A decent number to be would be some where in the 7-9 million area. 12 if he meets incentives. Im also basing this on the fact he missed 6 games in 2015 and torn his ACL in 2017. But I’m not a cap guy so this me just looking at other contracts and comparing them.
But why would he take a incentive deal when a team like the jets or bears would be willing make him one of the highest paid? We saw the giants pay Vernon and he never broke 10 sacks a season.
(03-07-2018, 07:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know what he is asking for ? and how much ?
It doesn't matter what he is asking for, the number could have been 16 million and then go from there if he proves he is healthy and back to a top receiver. We have the money and the need. This should have been exactly what the franchise tag is for and exactly what Bortles getting a backloaded deal was for.
(03-07-2018, 07:59 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 07:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know what he is asking for ? and how much ?
I'd imagine it's anywhere between 12-16 million and 30+ guaranteed. The first year of it is likely proving to be a point of contention to structure wise.
What would be the right price for you ?
You are just imagining. You have no clue. I would be good with a contract like Devante Adams but I have no clue what he is asking for just like you dont. I dont even know if he wants to stay in Jax just like you have no clue either. I would like him back but Tom and Dave has to have a limit, what is that limit? I dont know
(03-07-2018, 07:59 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]The issue is that he didn’t contribute to the success of the team last year. I don’t want to over pay for a player who is coming off a major injury, didn’t contribute to the teams success and we don’t even know if he can produce at a high level consistently. Yes he made the pro bowl (after Calvin Johnson retired) but we only saw that one time and that was two years ago. And the was pre injury (I’m starting to say the same things again).
I don’t want us over paying for that and jeopardize signing the guys who actually contributed to the teams success.
A decent number to be would be some where in the 7-9 million area. 12 if he meets incentives. Im also basing this on the fact he missed 6 games in 2015 and torn his ACL in 2017. But I’m not a cap guy so this me just looking at other contracts and comparing them.
But why would he take a incentive deal when a team like the jets or bears would be willing make him one of the highest paid? We saw the giants pay Vernon and he never broke 10 sacks a season.
All reasonable takes which really comes down to whether you think Arob can be a pro bowl caliber receiver again I guess. I do. Others like yourself may not.
Yeah I'd rather sign Arob and let Lee+Colvin go.
For year 1? I agree the first year would likely be incentive based from the teams side but more like 10 baseline with 12-15 with incentives.
Big thing to consider as well is we always have easy outs in all our contracts and that paired with an incentive based year 1 may put him off regardless of the paper money.
(03-07-2018, 08:06 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 07:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know what he is asking for ? and how much ?
It doesn't matter what he is asking for, the number could have been 16 million and then go from there if he proves he is healthy and back to a top receiver. We have the money and the need. This should have been exactly what the franchise tag is for and exactly what Bortles getting a backloaded deal was for.
And this is exactly how teams get in cap trouble. Just because we have it now doesn’t mean we need to spend it. Yannick, Jack, and Ramsey are due for extensions and potentially Fowler’s 5th year option. If you tag him that’s less money available to rollover to extend these guys.
(03-07-2018, 08:09 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 07:59 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I'd imagine it's anywhere between 12-16 million and 30+ guaranteed. The first year of it is likely proving to be a point of contention to structure wise.
What would be the right price for you ?
You are just imagining. You have no clue. I would be good with a contract like Devante Adams but I have no clue what he is asking for just like you dont. I dont even know if he wants to stay in Jax just like you have no clue either. I would like him back but Tom and Dave has to have a limit, what is that limit? I dont know
Of course I am. You make it sound like we are completely blind to what an expected contract range would be in this scenario.
And yeah nobody knows if he wants to stay here.
What would be the most you'd be willing to pay him?
(03-07-2018, 08:11 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]And this is exactly how teams get in cap trouble. Just because we have it now doesn’t mean we need to spend it. Yannick, Jack, and Ramsey are due for extensions and potentially Fowler’s 5th year option. If you tag him that’s less money available to rollover to extend these guys.
Whoo boy so now we're saying don't spend because we have to save money to roll over? We just saw the peak of this window if so.
(03-07-2018, 08:13 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 08:09 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]You are just imagining. You have no clue. I would be good with a contract like Devante Adams but I have no clue what he is asking for just like you dont. I dont even know if he wants to stay in Jax just like you have no clue either. I would like him back but Tom and Dave has to have a limit, what is that limit? I dont know
Of course I am. You make it sound like we are completely blind to what an expected contract range would be in this scenario.
And yeah nobody knows if he wants to stay here.
What would be the most you'd be willing to pay him?
If it was me I would let him walk and use that money on the oline. Not sure if we even spend any money on the oline but thats what I would use it for. I would give Norwell his 12 mil a year and go after Sitton
(03-07-2018, 07:59 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]The issue is that he didn’t contribute to the success of the team last year. I don’t want to over pay for a player who is coming off a major injury, didn’t contribute to the teams success and we don’t even know if he can produce at a high level consistently. Yes he made the pro bowl (after Calvin Johnson retired) but we only saw that one time and that was two years ago. And the was pre injury (I’m starting to say the same things again).
I don’t want us over paying for that and jeopardize signing the guys who actually contributed to the teams success.
A decent number to be would be some where in the 7-9 million area. 12 if he meets incentives. Im also basing this on the fact he missed 6 games in 2015 and torn his ACL in 2017. But I’m not a cap guy so this me just looking at other contracts and comparing them.
But why would he take a incentive deal when a team like the jets or bears would be willing make him one of the highest paid? We saw the giants pay Vernon and he never broke 10 sacks a season.
We are sort of on the same page. My only issue is that i don't see the ACL issue as being some damning injury, at least not in today's day and age with injury recovery. Then i look at your first point. No, he did not contribute to last years success, but to me that is sort an unfair judgement. I have to ask myself do i think he is better than Cole or Jayden? and all bs aside if you are evaluating talent for talent, Yes i have to say he is certainly better at this point.
This time last year there isn't a person on this board that wouldn't be on board with paying the guy. Yes there has been an injury, but i dont see that as being the end of the guys career or something we have to really guard ourselves against. pay him and if injuries become reoccurring, cut him and don't structure the contract to have tons of back loaded guaranteed money and it wouldn't hurt that much at all. Maybe it is just me but i don't see the benefit in just letting him walk over that.
That is just thoughts.
Fowler shouldnt get his fifth year option 14 mil no thanks. To me them choosing to let him walk is over confident in what we have at wr and the rumor they prefer to keep lee best not be true thats mind boggling.
Then I would go TE and WR in the first 2 rounds of the draft. I love the interior oline in this class but I would rather have the Pro Bowl vets
Walter Football has us taking Calvin Ridley
(03-07-2018, 08:17 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 08:13 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Of course I am. You make it sound like we are completely blind to what an expected contract range would be in this scenario.
And yeah nobody knows if he wants to stay here.
What would be the most you'd be willing to pay him?
If it was me I would let him walk and use that money on the oline. Not sure if we even spend any money on the oline but thats what I would use it for. I would give Norwell his 12 mil a year and go after Sitton
Oh you wouldn't pay him at all?
We could sign Arob and sign a top tier Oline with cap to spare for next year. And draft Oline too.
(03-07-2018, 08:14 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 08:11 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]And this is exactly how teams get in cap trouble. Just because we have it now doesn’t mean we need to spend it. Yannick, Jack, and Ramsey are due for extensions and potentially Fowler’s 5th year option. If you tag him that’s less money available to rollover to extend these guys.
Whoo boy so now we're saying don't spend because we have to save money to roll over? We just saw the peak of this window if so.
If you tag him you now have 13 million in cap space (3 million in cap and 10 million in rollover) to try to fill in the remaining offseason needs (potentially OL, SLB, TE) and still look at extending your other guys that are due. Kind of puts you in a bind doesn’t it?
I’m sure the team offered him a fair contract. Hell they were negotiating in camp last year and Robinson decided to bet on him himself. It backfired. Why are you mad at the team?
Quote: Robinson passed on a long-term deal during training camp last year. The team and his agent didn't re-enter negotiations until last week's NFL Combine.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mobile/art...-526338260
(03-07-2018, 08:09 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 07:59 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]The issue is that he didn’t contribute to the success of the team last year. I don’t want to over pay for a player who is coming off a major injury, didn’t contribute to the teams success and we don’t even know if he can produce at a high level consistently. Yes he made the pro bowl (after Calvin Johnson retired) but we only saw that one time and that was two years ago. And the was pre injury (I’m starting to say the same things again).
I don’t want us over paying for that and jeopardize signing the guys who actually contributed to the teams success.
A decent number to be would be some where in the 7-9 million area. 12 if he meets incentives. Im also basing this on the fact he missed 6 games in 2015 and torn his ACL in 2017. But I’m not a cap guy so this me just looking at other contracts and comparing them.
But why would he take a incentive deal when a team like the jets or bears would be willing make him one of the highest paid? We saw the giants pay Vernon and he never broke 10 sacks a season.
All reasonable takes which really comes down to whether you think Arob can be a pro bowl caliber receiver again I guess. I do. Others like yourself may not.
Yeah I'd rather sign Arob and let Lee+Colvin go.
For year 1? I agree the first year would likely be incentive based from the teams side but more like 10 baseline with 12-15 with incentives.
Big thing to consider as well is we always have easy outs in all our contracts and that paired with an incentive based year 1 may put him off regardless of the paper money.
I do beleive he has the ability to get there the issue for me is I only saw it one time and then he torn his ACL. I just want the team to be smart about what he has done not what they project him to do. I remember Laurant Robinson catching 10 tds in a season and could never do it again.
(03-07-2018, 08:30 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 08:14 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Whoo boy so now we're saying don't spend because we have to save money to roll over? We just saw the peak of this window if so.
If you tag him you now have 13 million in cap space (3 million in cap and 10 million in rollover) to try to fill in the remaining offseason needs (potentially OL, SLB, TE) and still look at extending your other guys that are due. Kind of puts you in a bind doesn’t it?
I’m sure the team offered him a fair contract. Hell they were negotiating in camp last year and Robinson decided to bet on him himself. It backfired. Why are you mad at the team?
Quote: Robinson passed on a long-term deal during training camp last year. The team and his agent didn't re-enter negotiations until last week's NFL Combine.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mobile/art...-526338260
Betting on himself or either not want to be in Jax. He might not even want to be here
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