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If Arob was a player on a different team there would be 20 topics about should we sign him.
(03-08-2018, 01:34 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 11:43 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Depends on the player. It happend week 1 and hes had longer the the average player to recover.
To me Arob is less of a risk then putting our hopes into a rookie which history shows rarely break 1000 yards. Or on an UDFA who had a good year (which worked great with Hurns right) or Westbrook who could go ether way and really wasn't good against top corners.
It did work great with Hurns, who went from 677 yards and 6 TDs as a rookie to 1031 yards and 10 TDs the next year. And Cole appears to be a better receiver than Hurns.
I expected the Jags to use the transition tag on Robinson. I wish he were locked up in a contract with the team. Although they didn't tag Robinson, I don't see a pressing need to use a high pick on a receiver or sign a pricey free agent to replace him. I'm comfortable with Cole, Hurns, and Westbrook as the starting three if that's the result.
Are we just gonna ignore that Hurns did that because he had Robinson on the other side? Hurns disappeared lart year without Robinson.
Teams are gonna have film on Cole just like they did with Hurns in 16 and 17.
Players do tend to disappear when they are on the sideline for half the season with injuries. Not sure if that had anything to do with Robinson, however.
Hurns didn't dissappear. He was hurt.
(03-08-2018, 01:35 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]If Arob was a player on a different team there would be 20 topics about should we sign him.
(03-08-2018, 01:34 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]It did work great with Hurns, who went from 677 yards and 6 TDs as a rookie to 1031 yards and 10 TDs the next year. And Cole appears to be a better receiver than Hurns.
I expected the Jags to use the transition tag on Robinson. I wish he were locked up in a contract with the team. Although they didn't tag Robinson, I don't see a pressing need to use a high pick on a receiver or sign a pricey free agent to replace him. I'm comfortable with Cole, Hurns, and Westbrook as the starting three if that's the result.
Are we just gonna ignore that Hurns did that because he had Robinson on the other side? Hurns disappeared lart year without Robinson.
Teams are gonna have film on Cole just like they did with Hurns in 16 and 17.
Hurns has been hurt the last couple of years. He missed 6 games last year and 5 games the year before and played hurt. The good thing is he finally looked healthy late in the playoffs
(03-07-2018, 11:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 11:43 PM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ]I hope we’re in the situation where all of them are all pros which makes it super hard to resign them. That’s good. At that point you let decent and overpaid players like Linder go because we’ve shown he is replaceable and frankly he’s far from dominant at his position.
Linder is one of the best centers in the entire league. Not sure what you are watching.
The only one saying that is the local media.
Why wasn’t he an all pro or even a pro bowler? Why can’t we get any push up the middle?
(03-07-2018, 06:27 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny how early on the entire fanbase except for oline matters was in unison saying we want to give Arob a deal or at the very least tag him, even to the point of ridiculing oline matters for not going along with the hoard. Now the Jags decide not to tag him and there is a whole lot of "not worth the money" and "down year and then injured" and "50/50 jump ball only player" and more going on.
What changed? Nothing. Stop being sycophantic the reasons to want to keep Arob are just as strong now as they were then.
'The entire fanbase'....
(03-08-2018, 01:34 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 11:41 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Again what you are talking about is hypothetical. We don’t know what would have happened if he played last year. We may have won the super bowl or we may have gone 6-10. We have no clue. What we do know is we lost him for the season to an ACL tear a year after he had a 883 yard 6 td year. We also went to the AFCG without him. That’s is what actually happened.
We have never seen him contribute to a winning team so we cannot say what would happened with him. We do know what has happened without him though.
Dude everything is a hypothetical at this point, saying Cole and Westbrook could be number 1's is a hypothetical saying Arob couldn't have a season like 15 is a hypothetical. At the end of the day give me the guy who has had a 1400 yard season and 14 TD's and been a number 1 over to players that never have.
I never said anything about Cole and Westbrook being number 1’s lol. You are arguing points that I never made. Everything you are talking about is hypothetical. We literally just witnessed what happens without Arob on the feild. He isn’t needed. He has no leverage. His only play is to go into free agency and hope a team overpays him. This team will be just fine without him.
The age old adage is stats are for losers. Give me the lesser stats if it leads to actual wins. Cole made more game defining plays this last season then I ever saw Arob make the whole time and thats real. Arob catches 3tds in a blow out loss. Cole made game shifting catches against the seahawks, clots and pit. Do I think Cole has more ability? Of course not but he has actually contributed to winning. I’ll take that.
(03-08-2018, 08:08 AM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 11:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Linder is one of the best centers in the entire league. Not sure what you are watching.
The only one saying that is the local media.
Why wasn’t he an all pro or even a pro bowler? Why can’t we get any push up the middle?
Because he's a lineman playing for a small market team and the guard play was subpar?
It was reported that last season he was offered a lucrative contract by the team. This while being injured and his recovery outcome unknown. What we are seeing play out now and them basically saying "go ahead, test free agency" is very possibly related to the reaction by him and his agent to that offer. They might have told the team at that point they were going to free agency unless they tagged him. We don't know. A-Rob might have said "No way I play here if it my choice". We just don't know.
(03-08-2018, 10:38 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]It was reported that last season he was offered a lucrative contract by the team. This while being injured and his recovery outcome unknown. What we are seeing play out now and them basically saying "go ahead, test free agency" is very possibly related to the reaction by him and his agent to that offer. They might have told the team at that point they were going to free agency unless they tagged him. We don't know. A-Rob might have said "No way I play here if it my choice". We just don't know.
Exactly. We don’t know the full story. What we do know is the team offered him a deal last year and he said no and bet on himself. Well he lost that bet in the worst way possible. Now they have offered him another deal and he still said no. The team has made every attempt to retain him and he has turned them all down believing he is worth more than what his actual output has been.
We aren’t talking about a guy who put up 90 catches and over 1300 yards and double digit TDs the last 3 seasons (e.g. ODB). He had one year sandwiched between an injury in his rookie year, a down year and an ACL year
He is most likely wanting to make as much as he can on his terms and I don’t blame him.
(03-08-2018, 09:15 AM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018, 01:34 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Dude everything is a hypothetical at this point, saying Cole and Westbrook could be number 1's is a hypothetical saying Arob couldn't have a season like 15 is a hypothetical. At the end of the day give me the guy who has had a 1400 yard season and 14 TD's and been a number 1 over to players that never have.
I never said anything about Cole and Westbrook being number 1’s lol. You are arguing points that I never made. Everything you are talking about is hypothetical. We literally just witnessed what happens without Arob on the feild. He isn’t needed. He has no leverage. His only play is to go into free agency and hope a team overpays him. This team will be just fine without him.
The age old adage is stats are for losers. Give me the lesser stats if it leads to actual wins. Cole made more game defining plays this last season then I ever saw Arob make the whole time and thats real. Arob catches 3tds in a blow out loss. Cole made game shifting catches against the seahawks, clots and pit. Do I think Cole has more ability? Of course not but he has actually contributed to winning. I’ll take that.
The Cole and Westbrook comment was directed to the entire conversation not really to you.
Arob never had a team or coaching staff around him like Cole does that's like comparing apples to oranges. By what your saying we should never sign a player from a losing team because it would make us worse regardless of there talent.
[quote pid='1109388' dateline='1520521922']
The Cole and Westbrook comment was directed to the entire conversation not really to you.
Arob never had a team or coaching staff around him like Cole does that's like comparing apples to oranges. By what your saying we should never sign a player from a losing team because it would make us worse regardless of there talent.
[/quote]
Lol stop doing that. You keep trying to argue points that I’m not discussing. By that logic Blake is a top 5 qb because he did that without a good coaching staff or team around him. See how pitiful that sounds.
Im talking about Arob and what I have seen him do. I saw 1 good year and the other three were poo lol. He has an injury history. That isn’t just a one off thing that happened. If he wants more money from some other team so be it but he has not earned a huge deal from us. It is what it is.
(03-06-2018, 12:57 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a big AR15 fan, but I don't want to overpay a guy coming off a major injury. As long as we use money saved on o-line men, and a QB to push/backup BB. Coming off the injury, chances are, he won't be worth 16 million, so try and work out an at-worth long term deal, or re invest the money elsewhere....
Not enough folks realize this is the approach the club is taking, whether we agree or not.
It's just smart business. There's no need to be desperate and throw more money than you should at a player, or feel desperate to keep or replace him.
If you were missed for the entire season and your team gets within a game of the Super Bowl, you are not a critical piece of the puzzle. Not someone who is a pillar of the franchise.
(03-08-2018, 11:53 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ] (03-06-2018, 12:57 PM)Jags North Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a big AR15 fan, but I don't want to overpay a guy coming off a major injury. As long as we use money saved on o-line men, and a QB to push/backup BB. Coming off the injury, chances are, he won't be worth 16 million, so try and work out an at-worth long term deal, or re invest the money elsewhere....
Not enough folks realize this is the approach the club is taking, whether we agree or not.
It's just smart business. There's no need to be desperate and throw more money than you should at a player, or feel desperate to keep or replace him.
If you were missed for the entire season and your team gets within a game of the Super Bowl, you are not a critical piece of the puzzle. Not someone who is a pillar of the franchise.
I don't think this is true at all. Eagles won the SB without Wentz... So he's not a critical piece to the puzzle? Pats won the SB last year without Gronk... So he's not critical?
I am totally on board with not giving ARob 16 million but to act like we don't need him at all is flat out false. If he was playing last year, Jags most likely win more games and possibly play in the SB. The play in NE where Westbrook catches a 26 yarder on the sideline but somehow falls down when he had a clear path for a TD? ARob was the best at adjusting and he most likely takes it to the house.
I still think the team knows something more about the injury. On top of it though, Jags have 29.5M cap space. After 16M and factoring rookie contracts the Jags would be left with roughly 8M. There's way too many holes on the roster right now to be all in like that. Rather see them spread out the money to fill up the roster and have another smart productive draft.
(03-08-2018, 08:08 AM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 11:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Linder is one of the best centers in the entire league. Not sure what you are watching.
The only one saying that is the local media.
Why wasn’t he an all pro or even a pro bowler? Why can’t we get any push up the middle?
I'll help you out. 1) Use your own eyes to determine how players play instead of the outside media.
2) You don't need to be an all pro or pro bowler to be one of the best at your position.
3) Our run game was one of the best in the league. We were near he top of the league in % of positive runs. Fournette was in the upper tier of yards before contact. And we ran for more yards than anyone else. Our issues were A)Injuries and B) Cann our guard was terrible and Omameh was serviceable at best.
We don't know what the team offered or what Robinson's reps are demanding. So it's pointless to blame one side or the other for the impasse.
I am totally in agreement with the team not giving him $16 million for one year. Usually, the year after an ACL reconstruction is a year of recovery, and the player doesn't reach full recovery until a year after that. So we'd be paying $16 million for one year of a guy who's not at full strength. I think that would be a big waste when we could use the money elsewhere.
(03-08-2018, 08:08 AM)SuperJville Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2018, 11:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Linder is one of the best centers in the entire league. Not sure what you are watching.
The only one saying that is the local media.
Why wasn’t he an all pro or even a pro bowler? Why can’t we get any push up the middle?
Do you know who had the highest rated grade for a center in a game this year? I'm sure you can figure it out.....
Pro Bowl votes mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things and when it comes to all-pro, there are also other great centers out there (Kelce made 1st team all pro) and because there is only 1 center, it's hard to make it. Bouye wasn't 1st team all pro so he must suck right?
(03-08-2018, 11:58 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018, 11:53 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Not enough folks realize this is the approach the club is taking, whether we agree or not.
It's just smart business. There's no need to be desperate and throw more money than you should at a player, or feel desperate to keep or replace him.
If you were missed for the entire season and your team gets within a game of the Super Bowl, you are not a critical piece of the puzzle. Not someone who is a pillar of the franchise.
I don't think this is true at all. Eagles won the SB without Wentz... So he's not a critical piece to the puzzle? Pats won the SB last year without Gronk... So he's not critical?
I am totally on board with not giving ARob 16 million but to act like we don't need him at all is flat out false. If he was playing last year, Jags most likely win more games and possibly play in the SB. The play in NE where Westbrook catches a 26 yarder on the sideline but somehow falls down when he had a clear path for a TD? ARob was the best at adjusting and he most likely takes it to the house.
The difference in these two scenarios is Wentz got the eagles to a number 1 seed before tearing up his knee. He contributed to the success of the team that year. Arob on the other hand was immediately lost for the year and the team went on to have a fantastic year in spite of.
I’m not going to say he wouldn’t have helped because that would be disingenuous but to say he is needed is false. That was proven last year. It has to be based on production not on what if’s. That to me is where the main seperation is between us as fans.
So what's the absolute maximum all of you would pay to keep Arob on a long term deal? Presuming he wants to stay here.
If push came to shove I'd be willing to pay 15 million per year and 35-40 guaranteed.
In 3 years time that contract is probably outside of the top 10 Wars.
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