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As was mentioned in the Ship Fowler? thread, the compensatory pick formula uses the prior year's net free agency gains and losses to determine which teams get awarded picks meaning Fowler walking in free agency in 2019 wouldn't potentially produce a pick until 2020. That seems silly to me that it's not based on the free agency period just prior to the draft and also renders talk of compensatory picks being a reason not to trade a guy pretty ridiculous.
Even had we been awarded a 3rd round compensatory pick for Fowler, it wouldn't have happened until 2020. With the trade, we've ensured that we indeed got a 3rd and also got it a year earlier plus we got the 2020 5th. I think looking at it in the proper perspective combined with the assumption that we were likely not going to be the highest bidder for his services in free agency you have to see this was a very good deal for the Jags. If we climb back into the division race and then suffer a significant injury at DE we may come to regret it, but at this moment it appears to be a very good deal.
(10-30-2018, 03:46 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, late 3rd and 5th round picks for the 3rd overall pick in the draft 3 years ago?
Again, how does David Caldwell still have a job? Good God!
bingo
(10-30-2018, 05:09 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-30-2018, 03:46 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]More importantly I think this speaks on the front offices confidence on the team righting the ship.
The tanking has begun. Please trade more players Jags front office.
Tanking how? Fowler has been a rotational player with minimal impact all season. His best play was the strip sack on Brady in a game we were going to win anyway. He would have been gone at the end of the season anyway and we would have gotten a fifth round comp pick for him, maybe a fourth. Getting a third and a fifth for Fowler is exchange for giving up 8 weeks of marginal production is very much worth it.
As for outright value; Shaun Alexander was the best running back in the league when the Seahawks tried to trade, they couldn't even get a third round pick. We got a third and a fifth for a backup DE.
(10-30-2018, 05:35 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (10-30-2018, 03:46 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, late 3rd and 5th round picks for the 3rd overall pick in the draft 3 years ago?
Again, how does David Caldwell still have a job? Good God!
bingo
He's also a player walking around on a reconstructed ACL, with a history of off the field transgressions, that is going to be asking for a substantial raise from what his rookie contract paid him.
(10-30-2018, 03:37 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]...to the Rams for a 3rd and a 5th. Considering they are going to be late in the round picks I don't think this was enough.
How so? We would've only received a compensatory pick at the very bottom of round 3 (at the most), had we not traded him. I'm thrilled! We got a lot more than I was expecting, considering he was gonna walk after the season.
This is the equivalent of Buying a Ferrari and trading it in 3 years later for a honda civic and a pinto.
Lackluster Dave at it again. It was a good trade for the scenario but the bigger scheme is it's another top 3 pick who failed here in Jacksonville.
(10-30-2018, 04:04 PM)spmakros Wrote: [ -> ] (10-30-2018, 03:58 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]This says a lot. Let the mini-rebuild begin. Up next, QB.
Agreed! I like the trade but this is telling that he wasn’t needed for our run this year and we’re giving up on 2018. I hope he doesn’t resign with the rams as they’re stacked.
I wouldn't say this move is giving up. If he was a starter, or if he was getting more than 25% of the snaps on the field, then maybe. The guy was a role player. We have other guys who can fill that role. His departure will have zero impact on the team moving forward, win or lose at this point.
If anything, this might light a fire under some of the guys still here. There are still difficult decisions to be made at the end of the year, and everyone is fighting for a 2019 roster spot. This trade should provide some additional motivation. It might lead to better play.
(10-30-2018, 05:44 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]This is the equivalent of Buying a Ferrari and trading it in 3 years later for a honda civic and a pinto.
Lackluster Dave at it again. It was a good trade for the scenario but the bigger scheme is it's another top 3 pick who failed here in Jacksonville.
A Ferrari that lost an axle before it saw any real race time, and when it finally got back on the field, it still wasn't living up to the reputation of a Ferrari for a couple of years.
Fowler's unfortunate injury couldn't have been anticipated when he was drafted. Nor can we know with ANY certainty how that injury impacted his career trajectory.
I know that you have to focus on one thing because if you have to think any more deeply than that, it confuses you. So, you have to hate Dave for any move because you can't see beyond him to think about the bigger picture. That's okay. Someone will paint one with crayons for you.
Given what Fowler was doing, the trade is a good value for the Jags. As others have pointed out, we weren't going to bring him back anyway. What rankles is the fact that he was a number 3 overall pick. We seem to have too many of those, I hope Fournette doesn't end up falling into that category.
(10-30-2018, 03:37 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]...to the Rams for a 3rd and a 5th. Considering they are going to be late in the round picks I don't think this was enough.
Sweet! Thats a great deal. Absolutely as good as we would have got in compensatory picks.
But sad - rebuild is on.
(10-30-2018, 05:50 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Given what Fowler was doing, the trade is a good value for the Jags. As others have pointed out, we weren't going to bring him back anyway. What rankles is the fact that he was a number 3 overall pick. We seem to have too many of those, I hope Fournette doesn't end up falling into that category.
If he doesn't have a huge turnaround when he comes back, I think hes already there. If you offered me a 3rd and a 5th for Fournette right now, it would be very hard not to take it.
(10-30-2018, 03:54 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-30-2018, 03:52 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]He is stupid but Khan is even more stupid and will retain him.
I get that it is good from a point of we weren't retaining him anyway, but this is now 2 top 5 picks Caldwell has made that are no longer on the roster. That isn't acceptable.
I wanted Caldwell to trade down at both those picks. When Joeckel was picked our strongest position was LT and Miami traded up at the very next pick for a player suggested as a possible Jags pick. When Fowler was picked there were at least two other players similar to him who we could have picked later, and Atlanta was interested and probably willing to trade up. Caldwell has a weak spot about trading down; he is unwilling to initiate the contact.
But that said, both were seriously injured their rookie years, with no injury history in college. Tough to blame Caldwell for those picks, they could have turned out a lot better had they not been injured.
This is good value for Fowler at this point.
(10-30-2018, 05:49 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ] (10-30-2018, 05:44 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]This is the equivalent of Buying a Ferrari and trading it in 3 years later for a honda civic and a pinto.
Lackluster Dave at it again. It was a good trade for the scenario but the bigger scheme is it's another top 3 pick who failed here in Jacksonville.
A Ferrari that lost an axle before it saw any real race time, and when it finally got back on the field, it still wasn't living up to the reputation of a Ferrari for a couple of years.
Fowler's unfortunate injury couldn't have been anticipated when he was drafted. Nor can we know with ANY certainty how that injury impacted his career trajectory.
I know that you have to focus on one thing because if you have to think any more deeply than that, it confuses you. So, you have to hate Dave for any move because you can't see beyond him to think about the bigger picture. That's okay. Someone will paint one with crayons for you.
Company man here to try to save the day again. Your man Caldwell should not even be in the front office. Khan had to hire big daddy Tom Coughlin because under Dave this franchise was a complete joke. Another failed top 5 draft pick. I know you consider yourself highly intelligent but the truth it most people probably see you riding that short little yellow bus.
Welp, it looks like Fowler will be getting a SB ring after all.
The same people complaining now are the same ones who would be complaining about letting him walk at free agency and that we didn’t get a good enough compensatory pick
(10-30-2018, 06:05 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Welp, it looks like Fowler will be getting a SB ring after all.
He still gets one when the Jags win it all this year?
(10-30-2018, 06:05 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Welp, it looks like Fowler will be getting a SB ring after all.
A ring and a baggggggg full of money. Dude is going to shine in the 3-4
(10-30-2018, 06:20 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ] (10-30-2018, 06:05 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Welp, it looks like Fowler will be getting a SB ring after all.
A ring and a baggggggg full of money. Dude is going to shine in the 3-4
Agree
Gilded his shoes and ponded some booze
Drives a hot rod and broke a Tyrod.
Dante eats Brady for Super Bowl gravy?
Bye Bye headache thanks for the inconsistent play and off the field issues. That said... he gets to play with Suh and Donald now that is a heck of a deal for him.
(10-30-2018, 04:09 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (10-30-2018, 04:03 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]That’s a win if I’ve ever seen one. Two picks for a guy who was gone anyway and the Rams get a 8 game rental.
It's not just 2 picks free and clear. You have to weigh it against the compensatory pick we would have gotten versus his value to us the rest of the season. Compensatory picks start being awarded at the end of the 3rd round so we did ensure ourselves of at least getting that best case scenario late 3rd compensatory pick plus the 2020 5th versus the uncertainty of waiting to see how things shake out.
I wouldn't say this is a huge win for us considering he could've helped us this year and we would have gotten something for him anyway had he walked in free agency. If it would have wound up being a late 3rd as a compensatory pick, we would have essentially secured a 2020 5th for letting him go early and giving a strong signal that we're conceding the division this year half way thru the season. I'd say that is more of a questionable move than a huge win.
Can another guy give us 2 sacks in 8 games?
I'd bank on that.
The whole "comp pick" argument always rings hollow to me. You sign one guy and you may get nothing, like absolutely nothing.
Pretty sure we could’ve gotten Bridgewater and another low pick instead of this but whatever at this point. This year is pitiful and last year looks like an anomaly from the previous ten years. Caldwell’s first rounds picks has been [BLEEP]. Anyone trying to defend otherwise is kidding themselves.
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