(08-08-2019, 12:47 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2019, 10:07 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Of course it matters what the contract says?? You aren't looking at this from a players perspective in the slightest.
Focus your mind for a second and think about what an NFL players goal is for a new contract.
-Fully guaranteed money
- Long term security
- Structure to protect him through injury or ailment
- Money up front
We didn't get any of those details in the rumoured offer, none. We have no idea how long the deal was structured , no idea how much cash up front, no idea what the offsets , no idea what options were on there. All of these are critically important.
"it doesn't matter what the terms are" thank god you aren't any players agent lol
It doesn't matter, 2+19 < 19+19. He is already a Jag for the next 2 seasons with $0 guaranteed money.
The rest of the deal isn't real, it won't be paid. Either math is hard for you or you are focusing solely on the deal in a vacuum.
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It does matter. If Frank Clark is getting say 4 years with 60 guaranteed and 35 of that on signing, well then it sets the market for what Yannicks deal does be..
You saying things don't matter doesn't make it so. All of what I mentioned matters in contracts negotiations. Yannick will be looking for all of the above in contract negotiations.
You can keep taking about this mythical deal that you have somehow determined is the fairest possible offer Yannick should have taken but it's not based in reality.
JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]But that depends on him turning up and playing. Look at Elliott at Dallas, Bell changed players mentality and how long will a team keep a player they aren't playing.
Why does it have to be like that with Yannick. We want to keep him, he wants to stay. Hopefully Marrone or Coughlin can just make a statement and clear up all the holes of facts.
The Jags are actually trying to do Yannick a favor with this deal. They also have shown they don't want to be locked into long deals anymore. The CBA is going to change, so who knows what happens.
If Yannick sits out, that would be stupid decision #2. Not getting paid next season, then the lockout, he better be saving money.
(08-08-2019, 01:07 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It does matter. If Frank Clark is getting say 4 years with 60 guaranteed and 35 of that on signing, well then it sets the market for what Yannicks deal does be..
You saying things don't matter doesn't make it so. All of what I mentioned matters in contracts negotiations. Yannick will be looking for all of the above in contract negotiations.
You can keep taking about this mythical deal that you have somehow determined is the fairest possible offer Yannick should have taken but it's not based in reality.
It doesn't matter if the deal was fair or not for his current value. Life isn't fair, the NFL has rules in the CBA and the Jags are using the rules like they should.
The Jags have him under contract for 1 season and will tag him for the 2nd season. For Yannick to continue to look for a long term deal that isn't coming is only going to hurt himself. It isn't going to hurt the Jags and will actually help as they only gave to pay him $2 million.
Market value only matters if he is on the open market. He isn't on the open market for at least 2 seasons. Take the money now and hold out in year 3.
Yes Yannick deserves a long term deal, but you have to use the rules in place or you end up with cap issues and poor teams. Yannick needs to realize what is happening next season and take the money now.
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(08-08-2019, 01:56 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]But that depends on him turning up and playing. Look at Elliott at Dallas, Bell changed players mentality and how long will a team keep a player they aren't playing.
Why does it have to be like that with Yannick. We want to keep him, he wants to stay. Hopefully Marrone or Coughlin can just make a statement and clear up all the holes of facts.
The Jags are actually trying to do Yannick a favor with this deal. They also have shown they don't want to be locked into long deals anymore. The CBA is going to change, so who knows what happens.
If Yannick sits out, that would be stupid decision #2. Not getting paid next season, then the lockout, he better be saving money.
The CBA is what makes this and Jalens contracts interesting. It's up for renegotiation after next season I believe and I cant see anyway that doesn't end in a strike. What impact that has on players contracts we will see.
I think hell be stupid to sit and I do think well agree a deal at some point, but we all thought Bell would report last season.
(08-08-2019, 01:56 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]But that depends on him turning up and playing. Look at Elliott at Dallas, Bell changed players mentality and how long will a team keep a player they aren't playing.
Why does it have to be like that with Yannick. We want to keep him, he wants to stay. Hopefully Marrone or Coughlin can just make a statement and clear up all the holes of facts.
The Jags are actually trying to do Yannick a favor with this deal. They also have shown they don't want to be locked into long deals anymore. The CBA is going to change, so who knows what happens.
If Yannick sits out, that would be stupid decision #2. Not getting paid next season, then the lockout, he better be saving money.
(08-08-2019, 01:07 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It does matter. If Frank Clark is getting say 4 years with 60 guaranteed and 35 of that on signing, well then it sets the market for what Yannicks deal does be..
You saying things don't matter doesn't make it so. All of what I mentioned matters in contracts negotiations. Yannick will be looking for all of the above in contract negotiations.
You can keep taking about this mythical deal that you have somehow determined is the fairest possible offer Yannick should have taken but it's not based in reality.
It doesn't matter if the deal was fair or not for his current value. Life isn't fair, the NFL has rules in the CBA and the Jags are using the rules like they should.
The Jags have him under contract for 1 season and will tag him for the 2nd season. For Yannick to continue to look for a long term deal that isn't coming is only going to hurt himself. It isn't going to hurt the Jags and will actually help as they only gave to pay him $2 million.
Market value only matters if he is on the open market. He isn't on the open market for at least 2 seasons. Take the money now and hold out in year 3.
Yes Yannick deserves a long term deal, but you have to use the rules in place or you end up with cap issues and poor teams. Yannick needs to realize what is happening next season and take the money now.
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Again , for the 3rd time, "it doesn't matter if the deal is fair or not" is not something that's based in reality. That's not a take that actually makes sense in a real world application of things. Yannick isn't negotiating in a vacuum.
So tell me this , what was the options on the leaked deal post year 2? Was it a team option? Seeing as how you know the ins and outs of the leaked deal.
Also, your take about market value is completely false, players are negotiating deals based on the current market value whether they're a free agent or a player who is renegotiating. If you're going to extrapolate all this with no real details at least know how the market place works
(08-08-2019, 01:07 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2019, 12:47 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't matter, 2+19 < 19+19. He is already a Jag for the next 2 seasons with $0 guaranteed money.
The rest of the deal isn't real, it won't be paid. Either math is hard for you or you are focusing solely on the deal in a vacuum.
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It does matter. If Frank Clark is getting say 4 years with 60 guaranteed and 35 of that on signing, well then it sets the market for what Yannicks deal does be..
You saying things don't matter doesn't make it so. All of what I mentioned matters in contracts negotiations. Yannick will be looking for all of the above in contract negotiations.
You can keep taking about this mythical deal that you have somehow determined is the fairest possible offer Yannick should have taken but it's not based in reality.
Neither are Yan's expectations. He thinks he's the best DE in football - he's not. He thinks he should be the highest paid DE in football - he shouldn't be.
I think Yan deserves a big payday as much as the next guy, but I'm with the team here... The guys "setting the market" finished their rookie deals, and they were seriously overpaid.
(08-08-2019, 04:13 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2019, 01:07 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It does matter. If Frank Clark is getting say 4 years with 60 guaranteed and 35 of that on signing, well then it sets the market for what Yannicks deal does be..
You saying things don't matter doesn't make it so. All of what I mentioned matters in contracts negotiations. Yannick will be looking for all of the above in contract negotiations.
You can keep taking about this mythical deal that you have somehow determined is the fairest possible offer Yannick should have taken but it's not based in reality.
Neither are Yan's expectations. He thinks he's the best DE in football - he's not. He thinks he should be the highest paid DE in football - he shouldn't be.
I think Yan deserves a big payday as much as the next guy, but I'm with the team here... The guys "setting the market" finished their rookie deals, and they were seriously overpaid.
Agreed, the value of a player is what the market will bear and my guess is no one would pay him what he's supposedly expecting. Nothing wrong in negotiating but he's going to be playing for 2.whatever mil this year when he could be making in the area of 20. Partly that's the player's fault but dude is getting bad advice from his agent too.
(08-08-2019, 02:56 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Again , for the 3rd time, "it doesn't matter if the deal is fair or not" is not something that's based in reality. That's not a take that actually makes sense in a real world application of things. Yannick isn't negotiating in a vacuum.
So tell me this , what was the options on the leaked deal post year 2? Was it a team option? Seeing as how you know the ins and outs of the leaked deal.
Also, your take about market value is completely false, players are negotiating deals based on the current market value whether they're a free agent or a player who is renegotiating. If you're going to extrapolate all this with no real details at least know how the market place works
Year 3 of the deal doesn't really matter because he doesn't have year 3 right now. I understand that Yannick wants a long term deal, but the Jags aren't offering that.
The rumor is they offered him $19 per year for 3 years and 40-50 guaranteed. They also included allowance for fines around $500,000 for a holdout after year 2. This means they know year 3 he will be sitting out, signing long term, or be traded.
Market value doesn't matter unless he has access to the market. He doesn't have access for 2 seasons at least. What he has is the Jags offering him more money for 2 years than he would otherwise get and $X is guaranteed where $0 is guaranteed now.
With the ability to hold out in year 3 of the proposed deal, take the current deal now. Get paid and insurance if he gets hurt this season. Then deal with getting a new deal after the CBA is done as it will be larger than a deal he gets now if it was 4-6 years.
The bird in hand is worth more than the 2 in the bush.
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(08-08-2019, 04:36 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2019, 02:56 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Again , for the 3rd time, "it doesn't matter if the deal is fair or not" is not something that's based in reality. That's not a take that actually makes sense in a real world application of things. Yannick isn't negotiating in a vacuum.
So tell me this , what was the options on the leaked deal post year 2? Was it a team option? Seeing as how you know the ins and outs of the leaked deal.
Also, your take about market value is completely false, players are negotiating deals based on the current market value whether they're a free agent or a player who is renegotiating. If you're going to extrapolate all this with no real details at least know how the market place works
Year 3 of the deal doesn't really matter because he doesn't have year 3 right now. I understand that Yannick wants a long term deal, but the Jags aren't offering that.
The rumor is they offered him $19 per year for 3 years and 40-50 guaranteed. They also included allowance for fines around $500,000 for a holdout after year 2. This means they know year 3 he will be sitting out, signing long term, or be traded.
Market value doesn't matter unless he has access to the market. He doesn't have access for 2 seasons at least. What he has is the Jags offering him more money for 2 years than he would otherwise get and $X is guaranteed where $0 is guaranteed now.
With the ability to hold out in year 3 of the proposed deal, take the current deal now. Get paid and insurance if he gets hurt this season. Then deal with getting a new deal after the CBA is done as it will be larger than a deal he gets now if it was 4-6 years.
The bird in hand is worth more than the 2 in the bush.
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The details on the extra years do matter because if it's say a team option, then its an extra year of team control at a potentially sub optimal price and range for Yannick. This is partly why judging a deal with no important details is pretty shortsighted.
Market value is how these deals are negotiatied man. Agents will show numbers and structures from similar deals and make the case for why their client deserves them , including external factors like time of signing, team outlook, injury history etc etc. What someone else got paid on the open market is relevant to these discussions too. If you don't believe listen to some former or current agents talk about contract negotiation.
(08-08-2019, 04:13 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2019, 01:07 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It does matter. If Frank Clark is getting say 4 years with 60 guaranteed and 35 of that on signing, well then it sets the market for what Yannicks deal does be..
You saying things don't matter doesn't make it so. All of what I mentioned matters in contracts negotiations. Yannick will be looking for all of the above in contract negotiations.
You can keep taking about this mythical deal that you have somehow determined is the fairest possible offer Yannick should have taken but it's not based in reality.
Neither are Yan's expectations. He thinks he's the best DE in football - he's not. He thinks he should be the highest paid DE in football - he shouldn't be.
I think Yan deserves a big payday as much as the next guy, but I'm with the team here... The guys "setting the market" finished their rookie deals, and they were seriously overpaid.
Forgive me if I've missed this, but has his team said they want a bigger deal than Khalil Mack?
Also, you guys taking that offer (without any concrete details ) as gospel, just remember which side most likely leaked that and consider if they would be an unbiased source or not
(08-08-2019, 04:13 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2019, 01:07 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It does matter. If Frank Clark is getting say 4 years with 60 guaranteed and 35 of that on signing, well then it sets the market for what Yannicks deal does be..
You saying things don't matter doesn't make it so. All of what I mentioned matters in contracts negotiations. Yannick will be looking for all of the above in contract negotiations.
You can keep taking about this mythical deal that you have somehow determined is the fairest possible offer Yannick should have taken but it's not based in reality.
Neither are Yan's expectations. He thinks he's the best DE in football - he's not. He thinks he should be the highest paid DE in football - he shouldn't be.
I think Yan deserves a big payday as much as the next guy, but I'm with the team here... The guys "setting the market" finished their rookie deals, and they were seriously overpaid.
They finished their tookie deals and also played on the franchise tag.
(08-08-2019, 04:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The details on the extra years do matter because if it's say a team option, then its an extra year of team control at a potentially sub optimal price and range for Yannick. This is partly why judging a deal with no important details is pretty shortsighted.
Market value is how these deals are negotiatied man. Agents will show numbers and structures from similar deals and make the case for why their client deserves them , including external factors like time of signing, team outlook, injury history etc etc. What someone else got paid on the open market is relevant to these discussions too. If you don't believe listen to some former or current agents talk about contract negotiation.
He can holdout in year 3. Also $19/yr isn't sub optimal price and even if it is $5 million less, he still makes more by signing now.
You forgot that he gets paid $2 million right now.
Using $19 million since Yannick's side said nothing about the amount, only the # of years.
Year 1- $19
Year 2- $19
Year 3- $19
Total- $57 million
Current contract
Year 1- $2
Year 2- $19
Year 3- $25, new deal, will assume an extreme #
Total- $46 million
Stupid to not sign now. $11 and probably closer to 15 he loses
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(08-08-2019, 09:31 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2019, 04:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The details on the extra years do matter because if it's say a team option, then its an extra year of team control at a potentially sub optimal price and range for Yannick. This is partly why judging a deal with no important details is pretty shortsighted.
Market value is how these deals are negotiatied man. Agents will show numbers and structures from similar deals and make the case for why their client deserves them , including external factors like time of signing, team outlook, injury history etc etc. What someone else got paid on the open market is relevant to these discussions too. If you don't believe listen to some former or current agents talk about contract negotiation.
He can holdout in year 3. Also $19/yr isn't sub optimal price and even if it is $5 million less, he still makes more by signing now.
You forgot that he gets paid $2 million right now.
Using $19 million since Yannick's side said nothing about the amount, only the # of years.
Year 1- $19
Year 2- $19
Year 3- $19
Total- $57 million
Current contract
Year 1- $2
Year 2- $19
Year 3- $25, new deal, will assume an extreme #
Total- $46 million
Stupid to not sign now. $11 and probably closer to 15 he loses
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I don't know why you're assuming he'd only get 25 million guaranteed at signing from a new deal, then again you are basing your whole premise on a leaked deal with zero important figures.
Frank Clark got 43 guaranteed at signing and his contract would be a year previous with more red flags than Yannick potential new deal in this scenario would be
They better do something or him, Jalen, and Jack will all do what AROB did to us.
This is crazy, SIGN HIM!!
(08-08-2019, 11:13 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]They better do something or him, Jalen, and Jack will all do what AROB did to us.
This is crazy, SIGN HIM!!
He's already signed. He's under contract for 2019, and they can use the franchise tag on him in 2020 if they can't reach a deal.
No one knows exactly what either side is asking or offering, but the fact is, when a player asks for a new deal while they are still under contract and not a free agent, they can't expect free agent money. And it sounds like he's asking for a lot. So there's no big rush here. They'll make him a better offer at the end of this season, when he actually approaches free agency.
You panicky guys would not make good businessmen. You have to be a little bit disciplined and not get stampeded into a deal when all the cards are in your hand.
I'll "hold" something out... A Candle. In A Dark Room.
I just don’t have any confidence in our front office.
Arob wanted out and now we’re still hunting a WR
They let Hurns walk and he gave us 1k and 10
Smith is sitting out so who knows how they will handle that
Yan is wanting money with Ramsey coming up to camp in an armored truck. I just hope they work it all out and not goof up.
(08-10-2019, 05:12 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I just don’t have any confidence in our front office.
Arob wanted out and now we’re still hunting a WR
They let Hurns walk and he gave us 1k and 10
Smith is sitting out so who knows how they will handle that
Yan is wanting money with Ramsey coming up to camp in an armored truck. I just hope they work it all out and not goof up.
Your history of posts show a low level of intelligence. I doubt the front office worries too much about what is going on in your pretty little head.
So, I'll go ahead and ask. Do you all think Yann is playing a little game of lets see how much they miss me? Now I ask with the knowledge that he has always been nothing but the ultimate professional but bitterness can sway a mans motives sometimes. I sure hope not. He is by far one of my favs on the team. What does the board think?
(09-14-2019, 09:56 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]So, I'll go ahead and ask. Do you all think Yann is playing a little game of lets see how much they miss me? Now I ask with the knowledge that he has always been nothing but the ultimate professional but bitterness can sway a mans motives sometimes. I sure hope not. He is by far one of my favs on the team. What does the board think?
That thought did cross my mind although it can backfire especially given that the rest of the D will be fired up after what happened last week. I'd bet it is a real injury though, that's what happens sometimes to players that hold out during training camp.
The media was doing a damn good job of trying to get Yan more money. Jags offered to way overpay for him. He didn't take it. Now he will probably have chronic hammy issues.
Life is pain, isn't it?
(08-10-2019, 05:12 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I just don’t have any confidence in our front office.
Arob wanted out and now we’re still hunting a WR
They let Hurns walk and he gave us 1k and 10
Smith is sitting out so who knows how they will handle that
Yan is wanting money with Ramsey coming up to camp in an armored truck. I just hope they work it all out and not goof up.
You make Forrest Gump look brilliant. Feel sorry for your kids.