(08-04-2019, 07:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]He's either going to A) Cost more than he would have if we signed him right now B) Not want to sign long term here at all or B) Be traded for less than his worth
This is my worry. I'm hoping we have something agreed in pencil and when Bortles money is off the books, it's a lot easier to do. What if we have another 5 win season and he has enough? What of he has a superstar year and wants to see what the market will give him. You dont let these guys walk.
But pass rushers are a key position, after Mack at Chicago, I can see a GM risking it for Yannick. Hell the rams just used Fowler as an OLB and if someone does that with Yannick, lining him up against TE's and T's, oh man hes going to fly.
I keep Thinking of that line from the Simpsons 'it's like a donkey with a hat, no one knows how he got it and damn does he know what to do with it'.
We have two elite players are were risking losing them, and we are paying Norwell $16m, Bouye $15m, Lee $9m and even Hayden $7.5m
Smh
(08-02-2019, 12:45 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2019, 11:40 AM)Setsuna00 Wrote: [ -> ]A 3rd Round pick performing at least like a mid to late first rounder. Pay this man his money. Oh wait...we're still paying Bouye and Campbell. Too bad Yannick, we don't care about our in-house players as much as the hired guns. Play for peanuts and be satisfied with it.
Yes, $19 million is 'peanuts'.
Stupid me, countering an offer to work for cashews instead of peanuts. They're tasty and all, but if that's what they meant by peanuts, my wife will never forgive me.
You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
(08-05-2019, 11:09 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 11:03 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much playing out as I expected and called (when many were worried he was going to hold out into the season)
I'm still pretty confident they'll get a deal done before playing the franchise tag dance.
I sure hope you are right.
Ngakoue stating "they had their chance" to sign me was ominous.
Yes and no. The bottom of the tweet also says "before the season" so who knows if that's what he was implying. With another year left on his contract anyway, and if the team makes a bounce back to 2017, I doubt he'd refuse to sign in Jax over this dispute.
It also seems like it stayed pretty civil on both ends. He was in contact with Marrone the whole time and never threatened a trade or anything. Seems like there's no lasting bad blood.
(08-05-2019, 12:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
I get that but I'm also looking at the Yannick situation as a warm up for Jalen.
That could get crazy.
(08-05-2019, 11:09 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 11:03 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much playing out as I expected and called (when many were worried he was going to hold out into the season)
I'm still pretty confident they'll get a deal done before playing the franchise tag dance.
I sure hope you are right.
Ngakoue stating "they had their chance" to sign me was ominous.
Yeah... I actually think his price is going to go up. And I took it as he's betting on himself to have the kind of year that will force the team to break the bank.
They could have offered 5/95 with like 60 gtd front loaded and he would have took it (if rumors and reports are to believed that they were offering more like 3 year at a 19 mil per year average, with probably 40 mil gtd?)
He hits double digit sacks this year and stays top 5 in pressures they are going to have to make him the top paid DE, or tag him.
Personally I'm not gonna worry about it. It's a business and sometimes teams have to make hard choices. Yan might be one of them. I wouldn't like it if they let him walk or trade him, but it is what it is. And if Allen balls, well it'll be a bit of a wash.
If I'm the team, I'm trying to get something done every week. Every day. I can't believe that what is keeping the deal from happening is that the team doesn't want to commit to Yan long term (in reference to rumors of a short deal) but who knows with this front office. They make great moves and stupid moves every off season, sometimes in the same week haha
If I'm Yan, I use the last bit of any leverage he has and cut off negotiations when season starts "to concentrate" and play angry.
(08-05-2019, 12:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
exactly lol.
(08-04-2019, 06:57 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2019, 07:38 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]glad the team didnt give in. Even if we give him whatever he is asking for I'd rather us give it to him while he's here than during a hold out. Looks better for the team than giving in during a holdout like a alot want the team to just give in. Glad we stood our ground an not look weak like some thought we should
Hahaha what?
This makes this team look absolutely awful.
Instead of paying a young, ascending and fantastic pass rusher, they are possibly on the verge of losing him. He has done every single thing you want your core players to do. He’s the opposite of Fowler. Works hard, stays out of trouble, great in the locker room and is a sswgreat teammate.
Not paying this guy shows the rest of the young players that they will have to go through the same issues when it’s their turn.
Makes the team look awful? Lol, the team tried to make him the 4th highest DE in the league. If he plays on his rookie deal this year it makes his agent look like an idiot when we tag him next year or if he gets hurt. I think he end up taking the deal before the start of the season
https://twitter.com/RealMBB/status/1158459168585637889
(08-05-2019, 12:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 12:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
exactly lol.
(08-04-2019, 06:57 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Hahaha what?
This makes this team look absolutely awful.
Instead of paying a young, ascending and fantastic pass rusher, they are possibly on the verge of losing him. He has done every single thing you want your core players to do. He’s the opposite of Fowler. Works hard, stays out of trouble, great in the locker room and is a sswgreat teammate.
Not paying this guy shows the rest of the young players that they will have to go through the same issues when it’s their turn.
Makes the team look awful? Lol, the team tried to make him the 4th highest DE in the league. If he plays on his rookie deal this year it makes his agent look like an idiot when we tag him next year or if he gets hurt. I think he end up taking the deal before the start of the season
There is no info out regarding how that deal was actually structured , so 4th highest DE number doesn't actually mean anything.
(08-05-2019, 12:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
Ideally we want Yannick here long term, this is a terrible way to achieve that goal
(08-05-2019, 03:31 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealMBB/status/1158459168585637889
(08-05-2019, 12:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]exactly lol.
Makes the team look awful? Lol, the team tried to make him the 4th highest DE in the league. If he plays on his rookie deal this year it makes his agent look like an idiot when we tag him next year or if he gets hurt. I think he end up taking the deal before the start of the season
There is no info out regarding how that deal was actually structured , so 4th highest DE number doesn't actually mean anything.
(08-05-2019, 12:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
Ideally we want Yannick here long term, this is a terrible way to achieve that goal
Rarely do contract disputes and things of this nature work ideally.
This happens with a lot of teams every off season.
Ramsey's deal will actually be easier, imo.
The cap will be more clear and if he plays this year like he did in 2017, we simply make him the highest paid DB, now or ever... and pretty much whatever else he wants.
I love Yan, but Yan is not the Ramsey of DEs. He's a very good DE, which is a premium position, but he's not the best at his position like Ramsey is the best (arguably I suppose) at his
(08-05-2019, 03:31 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealMBB/status/1158459168585637889
(08-05-2019, 12:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]exactly lol.
Makes the team look awful? Lol, the team tried to make him the 4th highest DE in the league. If he plays on his rookie deal this year it makes his agent look like an idiot when we tag him next year or if he gets hurt. I think he end up taking the deal before the start of the season
There is no info out regarding how that deal was actually structured , so 4th highest DE number doesn't actually mean anything.
(08-05-2019, 12:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
Ideally we want Yannick here long term, this is a terrible way to achieve that goal
Bingo!
If the negotiations only had impact on Ngakoue, then perhaps I am overly nervous.
But it goes beyond Ngakoue.
If others see the team acting unfairly towards one of its biggest play makers and defensive catalysts, they may be biased against the team when it comes to re-signing themselves.
I have already seen articles referring to grousing over how the FO treated Bortles with a new deal when he didn't deserve it. I also saw the Hays Carlyon tweet about some players having a negative view of the FO.
If there is anything to these reports, it doesn't bode well in light of these negotiations.
No, the team should not give away the farm to every player who asks for it. But if anyone has earned a big payday, it's Yann.
I hope they will soon come to terms on a new deal and put all this negative stuff behind them.
Here is former Jaguars' DL Austin Lane's perspective:
https://twitter.com/BrentASJax/status/11...91267?s=20
(08-05-2019, 03:31 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealMBB/status/1158459168585637889
(08-05-2019, 12:55 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]exactly lol.
Makes the team look awful? Lol, the team tried to make him the 4th highest DE in the league. If he plays on his rookie deal this year it makes his agent look like an idiot when we tag him next year or if he gets hurt. I think he end up taking the deal before the start of the season
There is no info out regarding how that deal was actually structured , so 4th highest DE number doesn't actually mean anything.
(08-05-2019, 12:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are some nervous nellies. Ngakoue is under contract for another year, and after that, we can use the franchise tag. So that's at least 2 more years if we can't get a deal done.
Ideally we want Yannick here long term, this is a terrible way to achieve that goal
yeah, it could if been even more
(08-05-2019, 03:49 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 03:31 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealMBB/status/1158459168585637889
There is no info out regarding how that deal was actually structured , so 4th highest DE number doesn't actually mean anything.
Ideally we want Yannick here long term, this is a terrible way to achieve that goal
Bingo!
If the negotiations only had impact on Ngakoue, then perhaps I am overly nervous.
But it goes beyond Ngakoue.
If others see the team acting unfairly towards one of its biggest play makers and defensive catalysts, they may be biased against the team when it comes to re-signing themselves.
I have already seen articles referring to grousing over how the FO treated Bortles with a new deal when he didn't deserve it. I also saw the Hays Carlyon tweet about some players having a negative view of the FO.
If there is anything to these reports, it doesn't bode well in light of these negotiations.
No, the team should not give away the farm to every player who asks for it. But if anyone has earned a big payday, it's Yann.
I hope they will soon come to terms on a new deal and put all this negative stuff behind them.
Here is former Jaguars' DL Austin Lane's perspective:
https://twitter.com/BrentASJax/status/11...91267?s=20
How have they treated Yannick unfairly?
(08-05-2019, 04:03 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 03:31 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealMBB/status/1158459168585637889
There is no info out regarding how that deal was actually structured , so 4th highest DE number doesn't actually mean anything.
Ideally we want Yannick here long term, this is a terrible way to achieve that goal
yeah, it could if been even more
you think the team would intentionally send out info undercutting themselves?
I think a lot of fans just aren't used to this because we haven't had any decent players recently. Teams go through this kind of thing every year.
Meanwhile, he's going to try to have a big season so he can get a big contract, either from us or from someone else. That's a good thing.
And if we still can't sign him at the end of the season, we franchise him.
(08-05-2019, 03:49 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 03:31 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealMBB/status/1158459168585637889
There is no info out regarding how that deal was actually structured , so 4th highest DE number doesn't actually mean anything.
Ideally we want Yannick here long term, this is a terrible way to achieve that goal
Bingo!
If the negotiations only had impact on Ngakoue, then perhaps I am overly nervous.
But it goes beyond Ngakoue.
If others see the team acting unfairly towards one of its biggest play makers and defensive catalysts, they may be biased against the team when it comes to re-signing themselves.
I have already seen articles referring to grousing over how the FO treated Bortles with a new deal when he didn't deserve it. I also saw the Hays Carlyon tweet about some players having a negative view of the FO.
If there is anything to these reports, it doesn't bode well in light of these negotiations.
No, the team should not give away the farm to every player who asks for it. But if anyone has earned a big payday, it's Yann.
I hope they will soon come to terms on a new deal and put all this negative stuff behind them.
Here is former Jaguars' DL Austin Lane's perspective:
https://twitter.com/BrentASJax/status/11...91267?s=20
Interesting that Yannick and Fournette share an agent. After how the guaranteed money went with Lenny (whether you think it was warranted or not) there was likely already some friction between that agent and the office prior to negotiations.
(08-05-2019, 04:26 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think a lot of fans just aren't used to this because we haven't had any decent players recently. Teams go through this kind of thing every year.
Meanwhile, he's going to try to have a big season so he can get a big contract, either from us or from someone else. That's a good thing.
And if we still can't sign him at the end of the season, we franchise him.
Nah I understand the process perfectly. They're either paying way more or losing him eventually, both options are poor decisions
(08-05-2019, 04:25 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 04:03 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]yeah, it could if been even more
you think the team would intentionally send out info undercutting themselves?
I didnt know the team said they were trying to make him the 4th highest paid DE. If it were false I'm sure Yannicks team would come out and say it were false. What's funny is the few on here think he should get a deal like Clark and Lawrence yet they both played on the franchise tag. Yannick isn't better than Lawrence. I hope a deal gets done but I think they gave out a fair offer and there always has to be a limit. Then some say the players will see him treated unfairly yet the players didnt even vote him in the top 100 players that both Clark and Lawrence made. I like how the team has handled it. I know you dont have a limit
(08-05-2019, 04:26 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think a lot of fans just aren't used to this because we haven't had any decent players recently. Teams go through this kind of thing every year.
Meanwhile, he's going to try to have a big season so he can get a big contract, either from us or from someone else. That's a good thing.
And if we still can't sign him at the end of the season, we franchise him.
exactly, could even hit him with the double franchise in 3 years if we wanted
(08-05-2019, 04:48 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-05-2019, 04:25 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]you think the team would intentionally send out info undercutting themselves?
I didnt know the team said they were trying to make him the 4th highest paid DE. If it were false I'm sure Yannicks team would come out and say it were false. What's funny is the few on here think he should get a deal like Clark and Lawrence yet they both played on the franchise tag. Yannick isn't better than Lawrence. I hope a deal gets done but I think they gave out a fair offer and there always has to be a limit. Then some say the players will see him treated unfairly yet the players didnt even vote him in the top 100 players that both Clark and Lawrence made. I like how the team has handled it. I know you dont have a limit
How do you know the offer was fair without knowing any of the actual important numbers and structure?
Also lol at using the top 100 players as evidence of anything
I posted this in the other thread, but I'll out some of it here.
It doesn't matter what amount he wanted or how long of a deal he wanted. He is never getting the $19 million for this year back. Also he was never going to see the 5th year and maybe not the 4th year of a long term deal. He would either be cut after year 3 or want a new contract.
He is already under contract for this season and at $19-20 million for next season with the tag. His contract was most likely offered for 3 years and would have been close to a guarantee. So if he plays well enough to get a $19-20 million deal, he is getting tagged.
Then he will sign a deal somewhere in year 3. After risking 2 seasons without a guarantee for injury.
So he signs after 2020, but then there is a threat of a lockout from the CBA. So FAs may not sign until after the deal and it may be a rush to sign. He may also have to sit out a long time without a paycheck. Maybe he gets an increase because of the new rules, but who knows.
So at the end of this, he loses $19 million, gains some money in year 3, but not enough to offset the $19 million. So he should just take the Jags 3 year deal and sign again during the 1st full offseason after the CBA. He could set the market price then if he was worth it.
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(08-05-2019, 06:54 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]I posted this in the other thread, but I'll out some of it here.
It doesn't matter what amount he wanted or how long of a deal he wanted. He is never getting the $19 million for this year back. Also he was never going to see the 5th year and maybe not the 4th year of a long term deal. He would either be cut after year 3 or want a new contract.
He is already under contract for this season and at $19-20 million for next season with the tag. His contract was most likely offered for 3 years and would have been close to a guarantee. So if he plays well enough to get a $19-20 million deal, he is getting tagged.
Then he will sign a deal somewhere in year 3. After risking 2 seasons without a guarantee for injury.
So he signs after 2020, but then there is a threat of a lockout from the CBA. So FAs may not sign until after the deal and it may be a rush to sign. He may also have to sit out a long time without a paycheck. Maybe he gets an increase because of the new rules, but who knows.
So at the end of this, he loses $19 million, gains some money in year 3, but not enough to offset the $19 million. So he should just take the Jags 3 year deal and sign again during the 1st full offseason after the CBA. He could set the market price then if he was worth it.
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The leaked deal was for 2 years. With no info about guaranteed money , money at signing or anything else important to judging how good a contract is.