(07-31-2019, 08:50 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 06:01 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Bryan Sexton stated on his radio show yesterday that he’s 90% sure a deal will NOT get done.
How is a disgruntled player cautiously guarding his health in a contract year going to play? I think YN is going to be a scratch this season, or close to it.
While that is not good to hear, I hope this just another example of Sexton being tone deaf to the song going on around him.
He throws some wacky takes out there sometimes.
Well he left that 10% out there so when a real does get done he can backtrack
In light of the details of the teams offer I will no longer hold the F.O. at fault if a deal does not get done. They made a offer that fit his skill level and position among his peers and they offered it to him early. His camp must take note of that fact. I sure want him around and motivated as obviously he is a rare talent but at what point is the cut off?
(07-31-2019, 11:17 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]In light of the details of the teams offer I will no longer hold the F.O. at fault if a deal does not get done. They made a offer that fit his skill level and position among his peers and they offered it to him early. His camp must take note of that fact. I sure want him around and motivated as obviously he is a rare talent but at what point is the cut off?
I can see both sides, and I think Frangie said it the other day, if it doesn't get done, you can't blame either side really. As you said, the team offered him a very fair amount of money, offered it early, and in turn preferred to keep the deal shorter.
Yan is looking for that long term deal to provide himself more security. The money is probably good at this point, or close enough, for him.
Neither side is
wrong at this point. Just hope they come to an agreement.
I still think a deal gets done. They don't offer him that money just to let him walk. The team wants him here, he wants to be here.
In a round about way, I also thinking keeping Yan will go a LONG way towards Jalen wanting to stay here.
(07-31-2019, 11:46 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 11:17 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]In light of the details of the teams offer I will no longer hold the F.O. at fault if a deal does not get done. They made a offer that fit his skill level and position among his peers and they offered it to him early. His camp must take note of that fact. I sure want him around and motivated as obviously he is a rare talent but at what point is the cut off?
I can see both sides, and I think Frangie said it the other day, if it doesn't get done, you can't blame either side really. As you said, the team offered him a very fair amount of money, offered it early, and in turn preferred to keep the deal shorter.
Yan is looking for that long term deal to provide himself more security. The money is probably good at this point, or close enough, for him.
Neither side is wrong at this point. Just hope they come to an agreement.
I still think a deal gets done. They don't offer him that money just to let him walk. The team wants him here, he wants to be here.
In a round about way, I also thinking keeping Yan will go a LONG way towards Jalen wanting to stay here.
I also wonder how much a greedy agent is factoring into this impasse.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ss-rushers
Again, he doesn't deserve top 3 money. He is delusional, he is nowhere near the best pass rusher in the league. He is not top 5 either so he should shut up and take what they are offering which seems fair.
How greedy can people get?...
(07-26-2019, 11:54 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2019, 09:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Clark and Lawrence have had significant off field issues. Dee Ford has significant on field injury/consistency issues. Yannick has been pretty much the model franchise DE on and off the field.
His contract floor should be the $20.8M AAV, $60M guaranteed that Lawrence got...and if we're being honest he deserves more than that.
Wrong again!
He should have done better in college! Then he could have gotten paid more!
Btw, we have a bet remember? don't remember the terms only that it was Fowler vs Yannick this season.
(07-31-2019, 11:57 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 11:46 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I can see both sides, and I think Frangie said it the other day, if it doesn't get done, you can't blame either side really. As you said, the team offered him a very fair amount of money, offered it early, and in turn preferred to keep the deal shorter.
Yan is looking for that long term deal to provide himself more security. The money is probably good at this point, or close enough, for him.
Neither side is wrong at this point. Just hope they come to an agreement.
I still think a deal gets done. They don't offer him that money just to let him walk. The team wants him here, he wants to be here.
In a round about way, I also thinking keeping Yan will go a LONG way towards Jalen wanting to stay here.
I also wonder how much a greedy agent is factoring into this impasse.
I think that has to be a huge influence in any negotiation like this. Agents are trying to market themselves to other players, and the best way to do that is to land above-market contracts for the players they already represent. If Ngakoue settles for a below market contract, other agents will use that against his agent when they are trying to recruit the same player.
"You're going to sign with that guy? Did you see the crappy contract he got for Yannick Ngakoue? Sign with me. My players get much better contracts."
(07-31-2019, 12:02 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ss-rushers
Again, he doesn't deserve top 3 money. He is delusional, he is nowhere near the best pass rusher in the league. He is not top 5 either so he should shut up and take what they are offering which seems fair.
How greedy can people get?...
He'd only be top-3 for a year. Then every year, a couple of guys would surpass him as the salary cap goes up. By the end of the contract, he wouldn't even be top-10.
(07-31-2019, 12:02 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ss-rushers
Again, he doesn't deserve top 3 money. He is delusional, he is nowhere near the best pass rusher in the league. He is not top 5 either so he should shut up and take what they are offering which seems fair.
How greedy can people get?...
24 year old pass rushers in the NFL who pressure the quarterback as often and as consistently as Yannick Ngakoue get paid lots and lots of money on second contracts. And so will Yannick Ngakoue.
You probably ought to get accustomed to the idea now. It's going to happen. One guy's random top ten list doesn't change that at all.
(07-31-2019, 11:57 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 11:46 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I can see both sides, and I think Frangie said it the other day, if it doesn't get done, you can't blame either side really. As you said, the team offered him a very fair amount of money, offered it early, and in turn preferred to keep the deal shorter.
Yan is looking for that long term deal to provide himself more security. The money is probably good at this point, or close enough, for him.
Neither side is wrong at this point. Just hope they come to an agreement.
I still think a deal gets done. They don't offer him that money just to let him walk. The team wants him here, he wants to be here.
In a round about way, I also thinking keeping Yan will go a LONG way towards Jalen wanting to stay here.
I also wonder how much a greedy agent is factoring into this impasse.
He pays his agent to make these decisions. If you aren't listening to your agent...why do you have him?
(07-31-2019, 12:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 12:02 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ss-rushers
Again, he doesn't deserve top 3 money. He is delusional, he is nowhere near the best pass rusher in the league. He is not top 5 either so he should shut up and take what they are offering which seems fair.
How greedy can people get?...
24 year old pass rushers in the NFL who pressure the quarterback as often and as consistently as Yannick Ngakoue get paid lots and lots of money on second contracts. And so will Yannick Ngakoue.
You probably ought to get accustomed to the idea now. It's going to happen. One guy's random top ten list doesn't change that at all.
I am not paying so I don't care, I am just telling it like it is, he is NOT a top 3 nor a top 5 pass rusher in the league, period. I think that bothers you but it is the truth.
It'll be a mistake to pay him like that but again, I am not paying so...
This team is foolish if they don't lock Yannick down for the next 5 years. Especially with him being what? 23, 24 years old this season?
Campbell and Dareus will be gone sooner rather than later. Josh Allen could be a better player down the road than Yannick Ngakoue. But that has to unfold [and hopefully quickly] on the field first.
But the only thing better than having one consistent pass rusher is having two or three more consistent pass rushers during a pass happy era of football. Coughlin knows that more than anybody.
That's all they seemed to target during his stint with the Giants. Even with Strahan they were looking at players like Tuck, Kiwanuka [SP?], Osiemouryia [SP?] & Pierre-Paul.
They need to get this deal done and over with before September. No need to let this fart linger in the lockeroom all season. It's just a distraction that should have been avoided already.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
(07-31-2019, 01:38 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 12:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]24 year old pass rushers in the NFL who pressure the quarterback as often and as consistently as Yannick Ngakoue get paid lots and lots of money on second contracts. And so will Yannick Ngakoue.
You probably ought to get accustomed to the idea now. It's going to happen. One guy's random top ten list doesn't change that at all.
I am not paying so I don't care, I am just telling it like it is, he is NOT a top 3 nor a top 5 pass rusher in the league, period. I think that bothers you but it is the truth.
It'll be a mistake to pay him like that but again, I am not paying so...
Numbers say otherwise there Chief.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
(07-31-2019, 01:38 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 12:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]24 year old pass rushers in the NFL who pressure the quarterback as often and as consistently as Yannick Ngakoue get paid lots and lots of money on second contracts. And so will Yannick Ngakoue.
You probably ought to get accustomed to the idea now. It's going to happen. One guy's random top ten list doesn't change that at all.
I am not paying so I don't care, I am just telling it like it is, he is NOT a top 3 nor a top 5 pass rusher in the league, period. I think that bothers you but it is the truth.
It'll be a mistake to pay him like that but again, I am not paying so...
Like I said, he would only TEMPORARILY be a top 3 paid pass rusher. He will slowly get pushed down as people sign new contracts. So by year 2 or 3, he might still be in the top 10, but there's a good chance that by the end of his contract, he'll be somewhere around #12 to #20 in terms of salary.
In fact, if let's say he's the 7th best pass rusher in the league, he would probably make more money if he simply asked for the 7th highest salary for pass rushers each season.
So it's not really fair to say he would be paid like a top 3 or top 5 pass rusher. He may get the 3rd biggest contract, but over the course of the contract, he would probably be around 8th or 10th. Because all during his contract, salaries would be going up and guys would surpass him.
(07-31-2019, 01:38 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 12:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]24 year old pass rushers in the NFL who pressure the quarterback as often and as consistently as Yannick Ngakoue get paid lots and lots of money on second contracts. And so will Yannick Ngakoue.
You probably ought to get accustomed to the idea now. It's going to happen. One guy's random top ten list doesn't change that at all.
I am not paying so I don't care, I am just telling it like it is, he is NOT a top 3 nor a top 5 pass rusher in the league, period. I think that bothers you but it is the truth.
It'll be a mistake to pay him like that but again, I am not paying so...
LOL
Not bothered.
You're just all hung up on top five this and top ten that. None of that matters in this scenario.
He's a young ascending defensive end with pressure and forced fumble numbers in an elite category.
He's going to get paid.
Doesn't matter if his salary is #2 or #11 in the league. Next year those numbers will be eclipsed by another crop of pass rushers signing deals. His agent is going to get as much as he can - and he should do just that.
(07-31-2019, 01:38 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 12:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]24 year old pass rushers in the NFL who pressure the quarterback as often and as consistently as Yannick Ngakoue get paid lots and lots of money on second contracts. And so will Yannick Ngakoue.
You probably ought to get accustomed to the idea now. It's going to happen. One guy's random top ten list doesn't change that at all.
I am not paying so I don't care, I am just telling it like it is, he is NOT a top 3 nor a top 5 pass rusher in the league, period. I think that bothers you but it is the truth.
It'll be a mistake to pay him like that but again, I am not paying so...
Name 5 DE pass rushers that are better
I think one of two scenarios is going to happen.
SCENARIO ONE
A deal will get done somewhere near the numbers and terms of the alleged current offer by the team. I don't see the team going much higher as far as the amount of money, so the terms of the deal and guaranteed money is probably the negotiating point right now. Supposedly he wants a longer term deal whereas the team offered a shorter term deal. Most likely if this happens it will be near the August 6 deadline for him to report to acquire a season towards free agency.
SCENARIO TWO
A deal is not agreed upon by August 6th and he reports in order to acquire a season towards free agency. In this case he either plays "lights out" in order to possibly land more money/a better deal, or he plays "cautiously" to avoid injury. My best guess is that should this be the case he would play hard and earn a much more lucrative contract. This is where he has the leverage over the team. Yes, the team does have the option to tag him, but it will ultimately cost them to keep him.
Of course there is the possibility of a holdout, but I doubt it. It's in his best interest to report by August 6th whether a deal gets done or not. This is where the team has the leverage on him. There is also the possibility of a trade, but that is highly unlikely (my opinion).
Finally, for the misguided people that say he doesn't deserve what he's being offered because he's not on someone's "top 10 list" I'll say this. Watching him play and how well he's done he is basically a "young Calais Campbell". Is he "the best" or one of the "top 5" or "top 10" players at his position? That's all relative and subjective. The bottom line is he is one of the current best at his position and is young in "football years". He'll get paid one way or the other either by the Jaguars or another team.
Ngakoue is a proven successful highly productive and disruptive 24 years young pass rushing DE. The Jaguars and many other teams would love to have him on their rosters. The reality is he will get paid handsomely by an NFL team, and his agent's job and financial incentive is to get Ngakoue the best deal, not the best deal for an NFL team. I think the team and player are fairly close in terms, and a deal will ultimately get done somewhere in the middle. To get caught up in some subjective argument whether he is top X is a meaningless point, as overall compelling market forces will drive his financial package.
(07-31-2019, 02:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 01:38 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]I am not paying so I don't care, I am just telling it like it is, he is NOT a top 3 nor a top 5 pass rusher in the league, period. I think that bothers you but it is the truth.
It'll be a mistake to pay him like that but again, I am not paying so...
LOL
Not bothered.
You're just all hung up on top five this and top ten that. None of that matters in this scenario.
He's a young ascending defensive end with pressure and forced fumble numbers in an elite category.
He's going to get paid.
Doesn't matter if his salary is #2 or #11 in the league. Next year those numbers will be eclipsed by another crop of pass rushers signing deals. His agent is going to get as much as he can - and he should do just that.
Someone gets it. Michael Thomas isn’t the best WR in football. Not sure which QB makes the most but I’d wager they’re not the best either.
(07-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 11:57 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I also wonder how much a greedy agent is factoring into this impasse.
He pays his agent to make these decisions. If you aren't listening to your agent...why do you have him?
Understood, but it seems hiring an agent is akin to hiring a lawyer or a financial advisor; you're hoping they're working in your best interest and not for the commission. Is risking his health for another year (and potentially suffering career ending injury) by playing under his current contract better than compromising? From what I understand, the F.O. was darn close to offering what was asked. Holding out for marginal money seems a little risky. But what do I know?
![[Image: 246x0w.jpg]](https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple62/v4/25/3e/5d/253e5de1-1411-c919-410a-c3628a666a5b/mzl.rehriusj.png/246x0w.jpg)
(07-31-2019, 11:57 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 11:46 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I can see both sides, and I think Frangie said it the other day, if it doesn't get done, you can't blame either side really. As you said, the team offered him a very fair amount of money, offered it early, and in turn preferred to keep the deal shorter.
Yan is looking for that long term deal to provide himself more security. The money is probably good at this point, or close enough, for him.
Neither side is wrong at this point. Just hope they come to an agreement.
I still think a deal gets done. They don't offer him that money just to let him walk. The team wants him here, he wants to be here.
In a round about way, I also thinking keeping Yan will go a LONG way towards Jalen wanting to stay here.
I also wonder how much a greedy agent is factoring into this impasse.
No, no, no, don't try that "it's his agent" thing. Yan is an adult. Unless you have proof showing otherwise I think we have to assume the player is in control. It's his life. Unless you buy into the stereotype that they're all just dumb jocks.
Besides, agents don't make perhaps as much as you may think, percentage wise. They make more in volume than from an individual player - especially a player in a small market who has few opportunities for outside income.
(07-31-2019, 04:02 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]He pays his agent to make these decisions. If you aren't listening to your agent...why do you have him?
Understood, but it seems hiring an agent is akin to hiring a lawyer or a financial advisor; you're hoping they're working in your best interest and not for the commission. Is risking his health for another year (and potentially suffering career ending injury) by playing under his current contract better than compromising? From what I understand, the F.O. was darn close to offering what was asked. Holding out for marginal money seems a little risky. But what do I know?
The player hires the agent (and his firm) to handle the business aspect for the players, and the agent is paid a percentage of the contract, rarely a fixed or even capped amount. The agent is judged most often by prospective new clients, the lifeblood of the agent's firm, by the size of the deals acquired on behalf of their clients. For future business purposes, firm's financial incentive, and client's satisfaction, the agent will try to get the most money he can in deals for his clients. If you asked NFL players what is the most specifically important job of your agent, the majority would indicate that it would be to get them the most money (the more guaranteed and AAV the better) in a negotiation with a team, with reasonable terms. I am sure the agent understands the ramifications and risk for the player to play under the current under-market terms, as opposed to taking a discounted deal (based on perceived current DE market) currently on the table. On the flip side, the team understands their cap situation and their desire to keep a highly productive and disruptive 24 years young DE beyond only 2 years. Good agents advise their clients of the negotiation process/status, market, risks, and realistic goals/expectations. Most agents tell clients (players) to let them do their job and trust their ability to negotiate the best deal; however, some players in these status discussions have told their agents to stop further negotiation as they feel the deal is fair enough and do not want the risks or further delay in playing. Ngakoue is advised of Jaguar offerings, and has the ability to override the advice of his agent. Most players follow the advice of their agents.
.gif "Laughing")
![[Image: tenor-22.gif]](https://i.postimg.cc/d34h0mg6/tenor-22.gif)