Anyone that votes Democrat has to LOVE this. They love that our country is a joke, that it is being destroyed from within. Democrats should be careful what they wish for though. They just might get it. When the machine breaks down who's going to protect them? Who indeed....
(08-17-2021, 06:08 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Kamala Harris proves how she fails this country with every word that comes out of her mouth.
And every object that goes in..
(08-17-2021, 05:04 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2021, 12:23 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I'll just leave this here for those tired of being gaslit.
https://youtu.be/McsdDCt_Ei4
What a bunch of leftist liberal nonsense, and yes I watched the video.
The actions that this administration regime took went against what advisers had been saying. It was a very stupid decision to pull armed forces out of the country prior to getting civilians and allies out. When the Taliban terrorists were approaching and taking over the country, this administration regime chose to "go on vacation" including the mouthpiece of their regime.
Let's think about this logically for a minute. Do you think the plan was for the Afghanistan regime to immediately fall apart? Why would the USA be pulling all of the non combat people out if the idea was for the regime that we spent trillions of dollars on forming and training to not immediately fall apart?
The advisors had been saying for years what the USA was doing was working and with just a bit more time and money everything would be perfect. Those are the people you think Biden should have listened to?
Trump didn't do much of value while in office, but having Pompeo negotiate the ceasefire with the agreement the USA would get out was one of his better accomplishments. Just a month ago he was seething over how Biden would get credit for it.
So, with all that said, what should have been done differently? Not believing in the Afghanistan state and pulling everyone out and still leaving the Afghani people to live with it? Taking in millions of Afghani refugees? Continuing the war, another year, or two, or five or more years at the cost of more American lives?
I’ve got a family member that is not exactly a peon in the Army. When I gave him [BLEEP] about his commander in chief years ago I got the “that’s my commander in chief and I won’t comment on it” routine. Fast forward and this guy is now calls it the Harris regime and doesn’t exactly seem like his colleagues disagree. So, I suppose that is good news for if a second civil war happens. My glass is twice as big as it needs to be. So I’ll take that as a good thing if we ever get to that point. Hopefully 2024 and Desantis gets here before it resorts to that. (I’m serious, but not tinfoil hat serious.) take it for what you want. This regime is pissing off the people that are supposed to be defending them and us.
(08-17-2021, 07:19 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve got a family member that is not exactly a peon in the Army. When I gave him [BLEEP] about his commander in chief years ago I got the “that’s my commander in chief and I won’t comment on it” routine. Fast forward and this guy is now calls it the Harris regime and doesn’t exactly seem like his colleagues disagree. So, I suppose that is good news for if a second civil war happens. My glass is twice as big as it needs to be. So I’ll take that as a good thing if we ever get to that point. Hopefully 2024 and Desantis gets here before it resorts to that. (I’m serious, but not tinfoil hat serious.) take it for what you want. This regime is pissing off the people that are supposed to be defending them and us.
This is also exposing all the woke generals that are destroying the military. If they end up forcing the vaccine, a lot of long serving people are going to use it as their out card. Unless they are actively deployed, the laws still apply. They have religious exemptions, although it's not granted a lot, and can use it to leave.
The military basically would be left with woke people or those who are blind or just don't care.
Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
(08-17-2021, 07:07 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2021, 05:04 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]What a bunch of leftist liberal nonsense, and yes I watched the video.
The actions that this administration regime took went against what advisers had been saying. It was a very stupid decision to pull armed forces out of the country prior to getting civilians and allies out. When the Taliban terrorists were approaching and taking over the country, this administration regime chose to "go on vacation" including the mouthpiece of their regime.
Let's think about this logically for a minute. Do you think the plan was for the Afghanistan regime to immediately fall apart? Why would the USA be pulling all of the non combat people out if the idea was for the regime that we spent trillions of dollars on forming and training to not immediately fall apart?
The advisors had been saying for years what the USA was doing was working and with just a bit more time and money everything would be perfect. Those are the people you think Biden should have listened to?
Trump didn't do much of value while in office, but having Pompeo negotiate the ceasefire with the agreement the USA would get out was one of his better accomplishments. Just a month ago he was seething over how Biden would get credit for it.
So, with all that said, what should have been done differently? Not believing in the Afghanistan state and pulling everyone out and still leaving the Afghani people to live with it? Taking in millions of Afghani refugees? Continuing the war, another year, or two, or five or more years at the cost of more American lives?
The Afghan people were going to have to be on their own eventually. No one should be disputing that. The problem is those who were told they would be taken care of due to the nature of their work with us weren't able to get out before crap hit the fan. You don't tell these people you're going to help them then turn around and [BLEEP] on them. That's only problem # 1.
You have the regular ANA who are not always known for their desire to actually fight for their country and the top levels of their military are corrupt to the core. Worse than we could ever think. So we leave them to defend their country (something they never had interest in) AND the Taliban are coming. What do you think will happen? They'll either flee out of cowardice or because they genuinely fear for their lives and the lives of their family.
Anyone who has read about OEF from the many books written by troops and contractors who were deployed there could see this outcome, just no one expected it to happen so quickly. Anyone who had any decision making responsibility in this should have known this and had a plan to protect these folks. The military always has a contingency plan. The plan may not always be 100% effective but there is a plan. This debacle is a cluster [BLEEP] beyond all reason. The Taliban didn't just show up in Afghanistan
today and everyone knew they would come. So what was the plan?
I put this ALL on the Biden administration who is more concerned with being socially woke and mandating the lives of American citizens while letting the southern border leak like a sieve and doing nothing while folks in Chicago are being murdered every weekend. They should be ashamed of themselves for hiding and not taking responsibility for ANY DAMN THING but
especially for this cluster.
(08-15-2021, 12:31 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]To our resident leftist loons, this is what an actual insurrection looks like.
My Peruvian wife agrees with this, as she fled Peru after the military takeover in 1968, and knows what a real takeover is like.
(08-17-2021, 11:33 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2021, 07:07 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Let's think about this logically for a minute. Do you think the plan was for the Afghanistan regime to immediately fall apart? Why would the USA be pulling all of the non combat people out if the idea was for the regime that we spent trillions of dollars on forming and training to not immediately fall apart?
The advisors had been saying for years what the USA was doing was working and with just a bit more time and money everything would be perfect. Those are the people you think Biden should have listened to?
Trump didn't do much of value while in office, but having Pompeo negotiate the ceasefire with the agreement the USA would get out was one of his better accomplishments. Just a month ago he was seething over how Biden would get credit for it.
So, with all that said, what should have been done differently? Not believing in the Afghanistan state and pulling everyone out and still leaving the Afghani people to live with it? Taking in millions of Afghani refugees? Continuing the war, another year, or two, or five or more years at the cost of more American lives?
The Afghan people were going to have to be on their own eventually. No one should be disputing that. The problem is those who were told they would be taken care of due to the nature of their work with us weren't able to get out before crap hit the fan. You don't tell these people you're going to help them then turn around and [BLEEP] on them. That's only problem # 1.
You have the regular ANA who are not always known for their desire to actually fight for their country and the top levels of their military are corrupt to the core. Worse than we could ever think. So we leave them to defend their country (something they never had interest in) AND the Taliban are coming. What do you think will happen? They'll either flee out of cowardice or because they genuinely fear for their lives and the lives of their family.
Anyone who has read about OEF from the many books written by troops and contractors who were deployed there could see this outcome, just no one expected it to happen so quickly. Anyone who had any decision making responsibility in this should have known this and had a plan to protect these folks. The military always has a contingency plan. The plan may not always be 100% effective but there is a plan. This debacle is a cluster [BLEEP] beyond all reason. The Taliban didn't just show up in Afghanistan today and everyone knew they would come. So what was the plan?
I put this ALL on the Biden administration who is more concerned with being socially woke and mandating the lives of American citizens while letting the southern border leak like a sieve and doing nothing while folks in Chicago are being murdered every weekend. They should be ashamed of themselves for hiding and not taking responsibility for ANY DAMN THING but especially for this cluster.
Cognitive dissonance? First it looks like you're agreeing with me, then suddenly you take a hard left to get back to partisan blame. It's your choice what you want to believe, I'll believe that Biden made the right choice not to resume the war. We'll see if a bunch of American war contractors and state department people pay a price for no one foreseeing how little the trillions of dollars and thousands of American military lives lost bought, or if it just turns out to be another case of partisans losing their minds.
Former President Donald Trump said Tuesday on Fox News Channel’s “Hannity” the Taliban did not kill American soldiers for the last year and a half because he told them he would hit back very hard.
Trump added that it was safer for Americans in Afghanistan than it is in Chicago or New York.
(08-18-2021, 06:00 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2021, 11:33 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]The Afghan people were going to have to be on their own eventually. No one should be disputing that. The problem is those who were told they would be taken care of due to the nature of their work with us weren't able to get out before crap hit the fan. You don't tell these people you're going to help them then turn around and [BLEEP] on them. That's only problem # 1.
You have the regular ANA who are not always known for their desire to actually fight for their country and the top levels of their military are corrupt to the core. Worse than we could ever think. So we leave them to defend their country (something they never had interest in) AND the Taliban are coming. What do you think will happen? They'll either flee out of cowardice or because they genuinely fear for their lives and the lives of their family.
Anyone who has read about OEF from the many books written by troops and contractors who were deployed there could see this outcome, just no one expected it to happen so quickly. Anyone who had any decision making responsibility in this should have known this and had a plan to protect these folks. The military always has a contingency plan. The plan may not always be 100% effective but there is a plan. This debacle is a cluster [BLEEP] beyond all reason. The Taliban didn't just show up in Afghanistan today and everyone knew they would come. So what was the plan?
I put this ALL on the Biden administration who is more concerned with being socially woke and mandating the lives of American citizens while letting the southern border leak like a sieve and doing nothing while folks in Chicago are being murdered every weekend. They should be ashamed of themselves for hiding and not taking responsibility for ANY DAMN THING but especially for this cluster.
Cognitive dissonance? First it looks like you're agreeing with me, then suddenly you take a hard left to get back to partisan blame. It's your choice what you want to believe, I'll believe that Biden made the right choice not to resume the war. We'll see if a bunch of American war contractors and state department people pay a price for no one foreseeing how little the trillions of dollars and thousands of American military lives lost bought, or if it just turns out to be another case of partisans losing their minds.
It's not partisan blame. It's pointing out incompetence on the part of the Biden administration. Biden could have taken steps to mitigate this outcome. He didn't. Just because we are pointing it out doesn't make it partisan.
(08-18-2021, 08:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2021, 06:00 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Cognitive dissonance? First it looks like you're agreeing with me, then suddenly you take a hard left to get back to partisan blame. It's your choice what you want to believe, I'll believe that Biden made the right choice not to resume the war. We'll see if a bunch of American war contractors and state department people pay a price for no one foreseeing how little the trillions of dollars and thousands of American military lives lost bought, or if it just turns out to be another case of partisans losing their minds.
It's not partisan blame. It's pointing out incompetence on the part of the Biden administration. Biden could have taken steps to mitigate this outcome. He didn't. Just because we are pointing it out doesn't make it partisan.
In your case, L2l, I can believe it might be something aside from partisanship. For some people here, that belief is a bridge too far. Like I said, we'll see if it actually means anything. If no Americans lose their lives there and they extract most of the people who need asylum because they helped the USA then it didn't mean much.
Really what it comes down to is the people of Afghanistan either weren't willing to do, or unable to do what they had to do in order to preserve the way of life the USA helped establish there. I don't like it, but I accept it as the reality.
(08-13-2021, 05:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Ummm, Trump negotiated the May 2021 withdrawal from Afghanistan and left Biden to deal with it.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-don...12ad0d215a
Yes but Biden handled it terribly. But I am glad he stuck to it. He could have easily went against Trumps negotiations and left the troops there. But he didn't. That I do give him credit for.
(08-18-2021, 09:11 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2021, 08:54 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It's not partisan blame. It's pointing out incompetence on the part of the Biden administration. Biden could have taken steps to mitigate this outcome. He didn't. Just because we are pointing it out doesn't make it partisan.
In your case, L2l, I can believe it might be something aside from partisanship. For some people here, that belief is a bridge too far. Like I said, we'll see if it actually means anything. If no Americans lose their lives there and they extract most of the people who need asylum because they helped the USA then it didn't mean much.
Really what it comes down to is the people of Afghanistan either weren't willing to do, or unable to do what they had to do in order to preserve the way of life the USA helped establish there. I don't like it, but I accept it as the reality.
Personally, I would like the US to honor their word. It frustrates me the callousness our government has with other nations and their people. When we do intervene, we need to honor our word. I felt the same way with the Kurds. This is not something that I pin solely on Biden, but on our military industrial complex as a whole and the role they play in creating policy. Every single President in the last 30 years has contributed to this problem, which results in legitimate hatred of the US by those who were spurned. I want to believe we, the government of the US, wants to make the world better, but the reality does not seem to jive with this sentiment. We are manufacturing terror, imo. I don't think it's accidental, and it's enlarging the coffers of a select few. All they need to do is spin it in the name of freedom and most of us never question it.
I agree with you that the animus being kicked up by the MSM does not fit the MO. I don't understand what's going on. I feel like you can usually follow the money to make sense of the barking dogs, but not in this case. I don't believe Biden made this decision unilaterally, so I'm having a hard time speculating the end game, here. We are supposedly looking to send troops to Syria, and we've been bombing Somalia since Biden took office. The MIC is making its money, so why the hate from the media? Anyone have any guesses?
(08-18-2021, 11:29 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2021, 09:11 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]In your case, L2l, I can believe it might be something aside from partisanship. For some people here, that belief is a bridge too far. Like I said, we'll see if it actually means anything. If no Americans lose their lives there and they extract most of the people who need asylum because they helped the USA then it didn't mean much.
Really what it comes down to is the people of Afghanistan either weren't willing to do, or unable to do what they had to do in order to preserve the way of life the USA helped establish there. I don't like it, but I accept it as the reality.
Personally, I would like the US to honor their word. It frustrates me the callousness our government has with other nations and their people. When we do intervene, we need to honor our word. I felt the same way with the Kurds. This is not something that I pin solely on Biden, but on our military industrial complex as a whole and the role they play in creating policy. Every single President in the last 30 years has contributed to this problem, which results in legitimate hatred of the US by those who were spurned. I want to believe we, the government of the US, wants to make the world better, but the reality does not seem to jive with this sentiment. We are manufacturing terror, imo. I don't think it's accidental, and it's enlarging the coffers of a select few. All they need to do is spin it in the name of freedom and most of us never question it.
I agree with you that the animus being kicked up by the MSM does not fit the MO. I don't understand what's going on. I feel like you can usually follow the money to make sense of the barking dogs, but not in this case. I don't believe Biden made this decision unilaterally, so I'm having a hard time speculating the end game, here. We are supposedly looking to send troops to Syria, and we've been bombing Somalia since Biden took office. The MIC is making its money, so why the hate from the media? Anyone have any guesses?
Well the first question is which word did the USA not honor? From what I've seen apparently the current last second evacuation is because the USA kept its word and didn't just leave immediately en masse, we stayed there and tried to show faith in the regime to actually stand up to the Taliban. That was apparently a mistake. Biden probably should have started clearing everyone out of there as soon as he took office.
The military industrial complex seems unlikely to be behind all of this, if they were then we wouldn't be leaving. This appears to just be Biden acting in as much good faith as he can given a turd sandwich that Trump and Obama weren't willing to bite into. Trump was saving this stuff for after the election so he wouldn't have to look bad heading into one.
As for further MIC influence moving forward, maybe Biden, actually is just wanting to move the nation away from endless war. It seems unlikely given where the nation has been for the last 60 years, but I'm willing to wait and see
(08-18-2021, 06:00 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (08-17-2021, 11:33 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]The Afghan people were going to have to be on their own eventually. No one should be disputing that. The problem is those who were told they would be taken care of due to the nature of their work with us weren't able to get out before crap hit the fan. You don't tell these people you're going to help them then turn around and [BLEEP] on them. That's only problem # 1.
You have the regular ANA who are not always known for their desire to actually fight for their country and the top levels of their military are corrupt to the core. Worse than we could ever think. So we leave them to defend their country (something they never had interest in) AND the Taliban are coming. What do you think will happen? They'll either flee out of cowardice or because they genuinely fear for their lives and the lives of their family.
Anyone who has read about OEF from the many books written by troops and contractors who were deployed there could see this outcome, just no one expected it to happen so quickly. Anyone who had any decision making responsibility in this should have known this and had a plan to protect these folks. The military always has a contingency plan. The plan may not always be 100% effective but there is a plan. This debacle is a cluster [BLEEP] beyond all reason. The Taliban didn't just show up in Afghanistan today and everyone knew they would come. So what was the plan?
I put this ALL on the Biden administration who is more concerned with being socially woke and mandating the lives of American citizens while letting the southern border leak like a sieve and doing nothing while folks in Chicago are being murdered every weekend. They should be ashamed of themselves for hiding and not taking responsibility for ANY DAMN THING but especially for this cluster.
Cognitive dissonance? First it looks like you're agreeing with me, then suddenly you take a hard left to get back to partisan blame. It's your choice what you want to believe, I'll believe that Biden made the right choice not to resume the war. We'll see if a bunch of American war contractors and state department people pay a price for no one foreseeing how little the trillions of dollars and thousands of American military lives lost bought, or if it just turns out to be another case of partisans losing their minds.
Where did I say he should resume the war? I said the way in which they 'planned' the
withdrawal of civilians (both Afghan and American) and our troops was a cluster [BLEEP]. And it's all on the current administration. Someone else said Trump set it up initially but didn't plan the rest at the time because he thought he'd still be in office when it was time to get people out of there. If that's true he is also a [BLEEP]. Plenty of blame to go around but Biden and his people literally running away from this debacle is disturbing. Yes, he came back to DC to :talk to the American people" but he looked like he didn't want to be there and had trouble reading the teleprompter to the effect that he has no clue what is going on and is completely incompetent.
(08-18-2021, 12:05 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2021, 11:29 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I would like the US to honor their word. It frustrates me the callousness our government has with other nations and their people. When we do intervene, we need to honor our word. I felt the same way with the Kurds. This is not something that I pin solely on Biden, but on our military industrial complex as a whole and the role they play in creating policy. Every single President in the last 30 years has contributed to this problem, which results in legitimate hatred of the US by those who were spurned. I want to believe we, the government of the US, wants to make the world better, but the reality does not seem to jive with this sentiment. We are manufacturing terror, imo. I don't think it's accidental, and it's enlarging the coffers of a select few. All they need to do is spin it in the name of freedom and most of us never question it.
I agree with you that the animus being kicked up by the MSM does not fit the MO. I don't understand what's going on. I feel like you can usually follow the money to make sense of the barking dogs, but not in this case. I don't believe Biden made this decision unilaterally, so I'm having a hard time speculating the end game, here. We are supposedly looking to send troops to Syria, and we've been bombing Somalia since Biden took office. The MIC is making its money, so why the hate from the media? Anyone have any guesses?
Well the first question is which word did the USA not honor? From what I've seen apparently the current last second evacuation is because the USA kept its word and didn't just leave immediately en masse, we stayed there and tried to show faith in the regime to actually stand up to the Taliban. That was apparently a mistake. Biden probably should have started clearing everyone out of there as soon as he took office.
The military industrial complex seems unlikely to be behind all of this, if they were then we wouldn't be leaving. This appears to just be Biden acting in as much good faith as he can given a turd sandwich that Trump and Obama weren't willing to bite into. Trump was saving this stuff for after the election so he wouldn't have to look bad heading into one.
As for further MIC influence moving forward, maybe Biden, actually is just wanting to move the nation away from endless war. It seems unlikely given where the nation has been for the last 60 years, but I'm willing to wait and see
Every single time the US goes in and makes promises to the citizens of another country, then doesn't uphold them, that bothers me. These insurgents don't fall out of the sky. The women that started schools and the ones that were walking around without burkas believed the rhetoric from the US. The men that joined the military and were trained to fight using the help of the US Air Force believed the US. When they die or they are maimed (and they will be), it will created a generation of people who felt betrayed. They will join the cause that didn't lie to them. Our word should matter, whether that's a promise to withdraw or a promise to build.
Your trust in Biden and the MIC is misplaced.