Well who wouldnt be for what we accepted for j rob.
If we trade Allen for anything less than a high first or mid first and second. I would be pissed.
I doubt/hope they wont even consider this. But if they do. Oh man.
Yeah, no. Even if we don't sign him we have him on a relatively cap friendly deal next year. Maybe then.
This doesn't seem to make a ton of sense but if they get a high first round and a conditional second/third rounder, why not?
No need to trade Allen
Don't see the point.
We are well into a process of rebuilding - not blowing the whole thing up.
(10-27-2022, 12:31 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No need to trade Allen
Don't see the point.
We are well into a process of rebuilding - not blowing the whole thing up.
I made my case yesterday. I don't think he's worth whatever the market is going to dictate towards him going into next year. His production simply isn't there. He's yet to consistently live up to his draft status.
10.5 sacks over the last 24 games after he posted 10.5 sacks during his rookie year riding the backs of Ngakoue and Campbell to get there. Again, he was drafted to be THE MAN and he's just been playing like another guy out there.
Throw that [BLEEP] out the window too with him being "top ten in pass rush". I don't care. It's not impacting the game, it's not changing the W/L column over the last three years he's been here. He's not making enough impact.
If he's going to ultimately cost you roughly 12% - 15% of your cap hit year over year when you could just refill positions of need elsewhere offensively to give you those extra 7 - 10 PPG to be on the winning side of things? I say do it.
What if the trade encompasses a 2nd and 3rd RD pick or a 2nd RD pick + player of solid value at a position of need offensively? Would you be tempted then?
(10-27-2022, 12:36 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2022, 12:31 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No need to trade Allen
Don't see the point.
We are well into a process of rebuilding - not blowing the whole thing up.
I made my case yesterday. I don't think he's worth whatever the market is going to dictate towards him going into next year. His production simply isn't there. He's yet to consistently live up to his draft status.
10.5 sacks over the last 24 games after he posted 10.5 sacks during his rookie year riding the backs off Ngakoue and Campbell to get there. Again, he was drafted to be THE MAN and he's just been playing like another guy out there.
Throw that [BLEEP] out the window too with him being "top ten in pass rush". I don't care. It's not impacting the game, it's not changing the W/L column over the last three years he's been here. He's not making enough impact.
If he's going to ultimately cost you roughly 12% - 15% of your cap hit year over year when you could just refill positions of need elsewhere offensively to give you those extra 7 - 10 PPG to be on the winning side of things? I say do it.
What if the trade encompasses a 2nd and 3rd RD pick or a 2nd RD pick + player of solid value at a position of need offensively? Would you be tempted then?
God no.
This would mean pass rusher is our #1 need next season to go along with an outside receiver.
(10-27-2022, 12:38 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2022, 12:36 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I made my case yesterday. I don't think he's worth whatever the market is going to dictate towards him going into next year. His production simply isn't there. He's yet to consistently live up to his draft status.
10.5 sacks over the last 24 games after he posted 10.5 sacks during his rookie year riding the backs off Ngakoue and Campbell to get there. Again, he was drafted to be THE MAN and he's just been playing like another guy out there.
Throw that [BLEEP] out the window too with him being "top ten in pass rush". I don't care. It's not impacting the game, it's not changing the W/L column over the last three years he's been here. He's not making enough impact.
If he's going to ultimately cost you roughly 12% - 15% of your cap hit year over year when you could just refill positions of need elsewhere offensively to give you those extra 7 - 10 PPG to be on the winning side of things? I say do it.
What if the trade encompasses a 2nd and 3rd RD pick or a 2nd RD pick + player of solid value at a position of need offensively? Would you be tempted then?
God no.
This would mean pass rusher is our #1 need next season to go along with an outside receiver.
What pass rusher? Again, what pass rush is there on the team now? At this rate with or without Allen it's probably a need ANYWAY. So you might as well get the picks to improve elsewhere while making your cap situation that much better.
Everybody acts like this cat is hitting double digit sacks or something. He's not TJ Watt, he's not Cameron Jordan, etc. We're 2 - 5 with him. This is WITH the defense folding late in the 4th quarter with opportunities for him to make a difference and he's not doing it.
When we lose Sunday I could see us trading Allen and going full tank mode and draftfting Will Anderson and Jalen Carter
(10-27-2022, 12:38 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2022, 12:36 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I made my case yesterday. I don't think he's worth whatever the market is going to dictate towards him going into next year. His production simply isn't there. He's yet to consistently live up to his draft status.
10.5 sacks over the last 24 games after he posted 10.5 sacks during his rookie year riding the backs off Ngakoue and Campbell to get there. Again, he was drafted to be THE MAN and he's just been playing like another guy out there.
Throw that [BLEEP] out the window too with him being "top ten in pass rush". I don't care. It's not impacting the game, it's not changing the W/L column over the last three years he's been here. He's not making enough impact.
If he's going to ultimately cost you roughly 12% - 15% of your cap hit year over year when you could just refill positions of need elsewhere offensively to give you those extra 7 - 10 PPG to be on the winning side of things? I say do it.
What if the trade encompasses a 2nd and 3rd RD pick or a 2nd RD pick + player of solid value at a position of need offensively? Would you be tempted then?
God no.
This would mean pass rusher is our #1 need next season to go along with an outside receiver.
Will Anderson
(10-27-2022, 12:36 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2022, 12:31 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No need to trade Allen
Don't see the point.
We are well into a process of rebuilding - not blowing the whole thing up.
I made my case yesterday. I don't think he's worth whatever the market is going to dictate towards him going into next year. His production simply isn't there. He's yet to consistently live up to his draft status.
10.5 sacks over the last 24 games after he posted 10.5 sacks during his rookie year riding the backs of Ngakoue and Campbell to get there. Again, he was drafted to be THE MAN and he's just been playing like another guy out there.
Throw that [BLEEP] out the window too with him being "top ten in pass rush". I don't care. It's not impacting the game, it's not changing the W/L column over the last three years he's been here. He's not making enough impact.
If he's going to ultimately cost you roughly 12% - 15% of your cap hit year over year when you could just refill positions of need elsewhere offensively to give you those extra 7 - 10 PPG to be on the winning side of things? I say do it.
What if the trade encompasses a 2nd and 3rd RD pick or a 2nd RD pick + player of solid value at a position of need offensively? Would you be tempted then?
I think teams are constantly looking for pass rushers.
I don't want to be one of them.
Would much rather add pieces to the rotation than roll the dice at replacing his pressures with picks.
Let him play on the option next year and then figure out if he really needs to be replaced.
(10-27-2022, 12:40 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2022, 12:38 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]God no.
This would mean pass rusher is our #1 need next season to go along with an outside receiver.
What pass rusher? Again, what pass rush is there on the team now? At this rate with or without Allen it's probably a need ANYWAY. So you might as well get the picks to improve elsewhere while making your cap situation that much better.
Everybody acts like this cat is hitting double digit sacks or something. He's not TJ Watt, he's not Cameron Jordan, etc. We're 2 - 5 with him. This is WITH the defense folding late in the 4th quarter with opportunities for him to make a difference and he's not doing it.
Sure.
But I'm not trading him for 2nd rounders. I need some 1sts up in there.
Jets have offered to trade us James Robinson in exchange for Josh Allen and a 6th round draft pick.
(10-27-2022, 12:38 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2022, 12:36 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I made my case yesterday. I don't think he's worth whatever the market is going to dictate towards him going into next year. His production simply isn't there. He's yet to consistently live up to his draft status.
10.5 sacks over the last 24 games after he posted 10.5 sacks during his rookie year riding the backs off Ngakoue and Campbell to get there. Again, he was drafted to be THE MAN and he's just been playing like another guy out there.
Throw that [BLEEP] out the window too with him being "top ten in pass rush". I don't care. It's not impacting the game, it's not changing the W/L column over the last three years he's been here. He's not making enough impact.
If he's going to ultimately cost you roughly 12% - 15% of your cap hit year over year when you could just refill positions of need elsewhere offensively to give you those extra 7 - 10 PPG to be on the winning side of things? I say do it.
What if the trade encompasses a 2nd and 3rd RD pick or a 2nd RD pick + player of solid value at a position of need offensively? Would you be tempted then?
God no.
This would mean pass rusher is our #1 need next season to go along with an outside receiver.
We need someone to use on the opposite side from Walker. The guys we have today aren't doing anything.
So pass rusher is a need today.
Allen is not much better than average and the question is really if the team wants him if he's going to be complaining to get a new contract etc. We as fans don't know the internal discussions but I wouldn't be surprised if Baalke is listening to offers.
(10-27-2022, 01:05 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Jets have offered to trade us James Robinson in exchange for Josh Allen and a 6th round draft pick.
That made me laugh. Mostly because it sounds so #BecauseJaguars.
(10-27-2022, 12:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2022, 12:36 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I made my case yesterday. I don't think he's worth whatever the market is going to dictate towards him going into next year. His production simply isn't there. He's yet to consistently live up to his draft status.
10.5 sacks over the last 24 games after he posted 10.5 sacks during his rookie year riding the backs of Ngakoue and Campbell to get there. Again, he was drafted to be THE MAN and he's just been playing like another guy out there.
Throw that [BLEEP] out the window too with him being "top ten in pass rush". I don't care. It's not impacting the game, it's not changing the W/L column over the last three years he's been here. He's not making enough impact.
If he's going to ultimately cost you roughly 12% - 15% of your cap hit year over year when you could just refill positions of need elsewhere offensively to give you those extra 7 - 10 PPG to be on the winning side of things? I say do it.
What if the trade encompasses a 2nd and 3rd RD pick or a 2nd RD pick + player of solid value at a position of need offensively? Would you be tempted then?
I think teams are constantly looking for pass rushers.
I don't want to be one of them.
Would much rather add pieces to the rotation than roll the dice at replacing his pressures with picks.
Let him play on the option next year and then figure out if he really needs to be replaced.
We took Allen in 2019 7th overall and Chaisson 20th overall in 2020 to fill the voids of Ngakoue and Campbell. They just took Walker number one overall to essentially fill the void that Allen and Chaisson have failed to fill.
We've constantly been looking for pass rushers now over the last three years. I agree with adding pieces. Just not into a rotation on the defensive side of the football that saw the most facelift this off season.
I am sure that's how the front office is perceiving this as well with Allen. They went out, spent all of this money to add talent around Allen and he's made next to no impact this year. The defense has been a liability in the 4th quarter of football games. They were non existent in the pass rushing department against two really beat up offensive lines.
I am all for adding pieces that will have an actual impact. Take those chances and roll the dice on adding more impact players to the offense next year. If they're going to test out whether or not Lawrence is the guy? They have to start building around him just like the clots did with Manning when he was young.
Go and get him a legitimate 50/50 speed threat that can win in the red zone in contested situations. Go get him the guy that has that wide catch radius that can bail him out when his throws are a little too high here and there, etc.
To me part of the prob with allen and walker is there is not consistent push up the middle so qds just step up. It does have some affect.
(10-27-2022, 01:11 PM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]To me part of the prob with allen and walker is there is not consistent push up the middle so qds just step up. It does have some affect.
And the Jags linebackers can't cover to save their lives.
The pass rush isn't getting home because the ball is out in 2 seconds on those short crossers.
Please, no. Are we really going into firesale mode AGAIN?
(10-27-2022, 01:11 PM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]To me part of the prob with allen and walker is there is not consistent push up the middle so qds just step up. It does have some affect.
I don't buy it. Josh Allen was getting handled in his 1 Vs 1 in the clots loss on the road and for the most part was quiet against the Giants, who also had a banged up offensive line.
He's a groundhog pass rusher. That's all he's done over the last three years since his rookie season. He'll show up once per year and have a really, really good game and then you will barely hear anything out of him before that game and after that game.
Just not impressed anymore. Getting close to the QB is not the same as getting to the QB. He's not forcing any fumbles, he's not destroying QB's for yardage, he's not really moving the needle all that much.
Might as well flip him now for a potential offensive player going into next year. We know what this offense wants to do now. It's all about speed, speed and more speed. They want big, explosive plays. They want chunk plays. They want Lawrence slinging it 40 times per game. That's fine. Just get him the tools he needs to elevate his play and you can build a lead and scheme up things differently defensively.
Tying up your cap hit percentage in the double digits for a guy that's only had double digit sacks once, going back to his rookie year, is just foolish. He's not one of the Bosa's. He's not TJ Watt. He's not Cameron Jordan. Hell, he's not even a Chandler Jones in his prime. I would trade him now and sign a stop gap pass rusher next year if that's much of a concern to this fanbase with a guy that's on the roster now, essentially doing NOTHING.
(10-27-2022, 01:19 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Please, no. Are we really going into firesale mode AGAIN?
Trading away a RB that wasn't going to be here next year and an overrated "pass rusher" is not a fire sale. R-E-L-A-X. 2 - 5 with those guys on the roster by the way. So, there's that.
(10-27-2022, 01:19 PM)Jaguar Warrior Wrote: [ -> ]Please, no. Are we really going into firesale mode AGAIN?
Yes,
but in the case of Allen it may be that they're looking ahead. If you can't or won't re-sign him it could be better to trade him.
For the right price obviously