Quote:There comes a time where negotiations break down and other options are used. You can't be complacent and not be ready to take further action if negotiations fail.
Your point doesn't make sense in this situation.
Perhaps. I agree that contingencies must be considered if the negotiations-meditations go south.
Perhaps in this situation they exhausted all other avenues. However, I have my doubts based on my thoughts regarding our police force having equipment designed to kill enemy combatants on a battle feild.
You may be right that based on this particular circumstance the appropriate action was taken. It doesn't change the fact that the police are beginning to behave like a military force than the protectors of the peace.
That's really my main concern and point.
[BLEEP] I hate to bring up a kids movie at a time like this, but Zootopia was more prophecy than entertainment.
Would have gave rather they have put a bullet in his forehead if things broke down?
I'm guessing they would have too but I'm also guessing that wasn't an option.
Quote:[BAD WORD REMOVED] I hate to bring up a kids movie at a time like this, but Zootopia was more prophecy than entertainment.
Now I'm intrigued, is it the modern version of Orwell's Animal Farm?
Regarding the militarization of police I won't attempt to change your opinion on the matter and I understand your viewpoint.
I feel like some "military" type equipment has become necessary for law enforcement. I don't like that but it's reality.
Police aren't policing Andy Griffith's neighborhood anymore. This isn't Mayberry. They are dealing with people that have access to explosive devices and high powered weapons. They are dealing with people that commit crimes heavily armed.
It's the way of the world.
Quote:Now I'm intrigued, is it the modern version of Orwell's Animal Farm?
Not even close. It's a story of those in power using violence and fear to manipulate the population into doing exactly as they want. Oh, and there's a pretty funny Breaking Bad reference that's actually pretty scary when you consider it in the context of the film.
It's kind of an allegory for race relations (ESPECIALLY now), the war on terror, and a touch of Orwellian theory. It's all the more effective because of how it gets there. There's one line towards the end of the film that could come right out of the mouth of Obama, Clinton or Trump, and it's so true it's chilling.
TL;DR I consider it to be one of the best films ever made, by far the best thing ever to come from the Mouse, and certainly one of the most important.
Quote:Regarding the militarization of police I won't attempt to change your opinion on the matter and I understand your viewpoint.
I feel like some "military" type equipment has become necessary for law enforcement. I don't like that but it's reality.
Police aren't policing Andy Griffith's neighborhood anymore. This isn't Mayberry. They are dealing with people that have access to explosive devices and high powered weapons. They are dealing with people that commit crimes heavily armed.
It's the way of the world.
This is where things get complicated for me.
I don't want there to be a situation where a police state can use brute force to quell any justified resistance should there ever be a need for free men to revolt to defend their inalienable rights.
Otherwise, we'd still be bowing to the King and Queen.
As long as the force is used to uphold the law and not carry out unlawful political agenda, that's fine.
Was just going to say black athletes need to do more for other black people.
Great post by Carmelo Anthony here
![[Image: vff7rq.png]](http://i65.tinypic.com/vff7rq.png)
My real thoughts and questions about deaths by police will probably cause more problems than I'm hoping versus discussion.
I don't like that this is constantly pushed as a race issue. Us vs them.
That's not helping.
Quote:Regarding the militarization of police I won't attempt to change your opinion on the matter and I understand your viewpoint.
I feel like some "military" type equipment has become necessary for law enforcement. I don't like that but it's reality.
Police aren't policing Andy Griffith's neighborhood anymore. This isn't Mayberry. They are dealing with people that have access to explosive devices and high powered weapons. They are dealing with people that commit crimes heavily armed.
It's the way of the world.
Actually, as I'm talking this through with you and Anonymous, I'm beginning to realize that an absolute ban is not rational. A certain amount of SWAT equipment needs to be available. I will concede that.
But SWAT equipment and SWAT tactics should not be the universal gear and approach on how to deal with the citizens on a normal basis.
The two killings this week, and the publicized killings by cops over the past 5 years show me that these peace keepers are no longer thinking of themselves that way.
The militarization of equipment is not the only cause of this, but I think it plays a factor. When the police think that they are warriors based on the stuff they are getting to use, they begin to look at the society as being the enemy. This can corrupt the relationship between the community and the police...
Quote:Actually, as I'm talking this through with you and Anonymous, I'm beginning to realize that an absolute ban is not rational. A certain amount of SWAT equipment needs to be available. I will concede that.
But SWAT equipment and SWAT tactics should not be the universal gear and approach on how to deal with the citizens on a normal basis.
The two killings this week, and the publicized killings by cops over the past 5 years show me that these peace keepers are no longer thinking of themselves that way.
The militarization of equipment is not the only cause of this, but I think it plays a factor. When the police think that they are warriors based on the stuff they are getting to use, they begin to look at the society as being the enemy.
This can corrupt the relationship between the community and the police...
You are so wrong and so off base not only with the post that I quoted, but a lot of other things that you bring up. As an example, there are no "quotas" as far as traffic tickets.
First of all, do you know what SWAT equipment is and/or SWAT tactics? I'll give you a hint, it's not what you see in the movies. Also the "SWAT gear" and "SWAT tactics" is not the universal arming/approach when dealing with the public on a normal basis.
As far as the part in red, what do you define as "militarization of equipment"? Assault style weapons? Robots? Should police officers receive any kind of military training?
Regarding the original topic, one of the biggest issues that needs to be addressed (in my opinion) is the way that this country has become further divided since the 2008 Presidential election. I fault not only the politicians but also the media (including social media). People hear of a white police officer shooting a black man, and instantly it becomes a "race issue". The whole Black Lives Matter "movement" started because a black thug was shot and killed by a white police officer. Politicians have been telling us that white police officers are targeting black people and the media runs with it before all of the facts are known. It's picked up on social media and incorrect information is spread.
Eventually people that keep hearing this mis-information over and over start believing it, and pretty soon you have events like this take place.
I challenge anyone to name a specific police shooting that was racially motivated. Show the proof.
Our current President was supposed to bring the nation together, yet it's more divisive than ever.
Quote:The militarization of equipment is not the only cause of this, but I think it plays a factor. When the police think that they are warriors based on the stuff they are getting to use, they begin to look at the society as being the enemy. This can corrupt the relationship between the community and the police...
You must not know many, if any, police officers. While there are some who have a warrior or God complex, the majority do not. Sweeping generalizations of groups of people is one of the reasons this nation, and this messageboard, is so divided. That, and the need for people to feel as if they have to compartmentalize themselves and others into groups that do nothing but cause strife.
When did we stop looking at and treating each other as people? As human beings? With respect and courtesy? It seems anymore we have negative reactions to anything and everything instead of taking a breath and forming a rational thought and coming up with a solution. Everything now is about who is right, who is better, who is smarter, who is more persecuted. We are all in this together. No man is an island. What happens to one of us happens to all of us. It may not affect us all in the same way but it affects us all the same. Everything has a cause and effect. Consequences are not punishment for our actions, they are the effect.
Everyone here is intelligent and knowledgeable in different ways from their life experiences which I think is fantastic. What's sad is when differing opinions on matters cause breakdown in communication and people start name calling and throwing insults and acting like petulant children who aren't getting their way. That's the road society is taking and no one is noticing it because it's been a slow boil for a long time. The bad thing is, in our society horrific things are happening. It's not just a CoC warning or an all out ban. It's death and destruction to and of humanity and we are all the problem because we are all allowing it with how we use our words and actions. And how we don't. If things keep going as they are we won't need ISIS or the Taliban or any terrorist group to dismantle this nation. We're going to do it all by ourselves.
Quote:You are so wrong and so off base not only with the post that I quoted, but a lot of other things that you bring up. As an example, there are no "quotas" as far as traffic tickets.
First of all, do you know what SWAT equipment is and/or SWAT tactics? I'll give you a hint, it's not what you see in the movies. Also the "SWAT gear" and "SWAT tactics" is not the universal arming/approach when dealing with the public on a normal basis.
As far as the part in red, what do you define as "militarization of equipment"? Assault style weapons? Robots? Should police officers receive any kind of military training?
![[Image: militarization.jpg]](https://cops.usdoj.gov/html/dispatch/12-2013/images/militarization.jpg)
Hmmmmmm, now where have I seen that before?
Oh yeah:
![[Image: hqdefault.jpg]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/S-N9ehzr6ww/hqdefault.jpg)
Quote:You are so wrong and so off base not only with the post that I quoted, but a lot of other things that you bring up. As an example, there are no "quotas" as far as traffic tickets.
First of all, do you know what SWAT equipment is and/or SWAT tactics? I'll give you a hint, it's not what you see in the movies. Also the "SWAT gear" and "SWAT tactics" is not the universal arming/approach when dealing with the public on a normal basis.
As far as the part in red, what do you define as "militarization of equipment"? Assault style weapons? Robots? Should police officers receive any kind of military training?
With all due respect, JIB, you clearly are just twisting my words and intent to make your non-sensical point. Whether there is an official quota or not, we all know that police are motivated by their higher ups, and they are motivated by elected officials to write tickets. The motivation is there, whether it's officail or not... Here's a source <a class="bbc_url" href='http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/18457-at-least-three-police-officers-killed-by-snipers-during-dallas-protest-chief-says/page-5'>http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/18457-at-least-three-police-officers-killed-by-snipers-during-dallas-protest-chief-says/page-5</a>
If you have to tackle a black male that you just approached I would call that using militarized style policing. It's definatley not community policing. But I know, you feel that shooting a guy point blank is justified. Whether you disagree with the verbiage I'm using or not, the fact remains. The way the police have been handling citizens can be seen as a militarized occupational force, not a peacekeeping relationship with the community.
I find it very fitting that you ignore these MAIN POINTS that I'm making in order to try and muddy the waters with definitions that really have no importance in regards to what I'm trying to express.
As for what equiptment I would define as such, I think of the gear and equiptment used during Ferguson.
Quote:
Hmmmmmm, now where have I seen that before?
Oh yeah:
And your point is? Police officers shouldn't have riot gear? Let me ask you this as well, should police officers receive military training? Also, name one peice of equipment that the officers in the picture have now that they didn't have in say 1987.