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Quote:The interesting thing about this debate is that if you look at the actual statistics, I suppose white people should be out there protesting that white lives matter.

 

The Washington Post, hardly a bastion of conservatism, is tracking police related killings.  Numbers don't lie.

Except whites account for 72.41% of the US population while blacks account for only 12.61%. Meaning blacks are grossly over-represented in the figures for police killings. Other than that, I agree with TJBender; all lives matter and the US police force has repeatedly shown a blatant disregard for human life, regardless of ethnicity.

Quote:And your point is?  Police officers shouldn't have riot gear?  Let me ask you this as well, should police officers receive military training?  Also, name one peice of equipment that the officers in the picture have now that they didn't have in say 1987.

Here's a picture of Dutch riot police:

 



 

Notice how none of their equipment looks military in nature. The helmets are colored white, not black; the uniform is an even blue, no camo patterns. Their faces aren't obscured by military style balaclavas. They project authority without resorting to oppression. 

Quote:This is the post of the thread, should be stickied

 

Nope.

Quote:These cops were killed because they were cops.


If it was only a race issue, then he would not have targeted cops specifically.

Specifically white cops.

Quote:Except whites account for 72.41% of the US population while blacks account for only 12.61%. Meaning blacks are grossly over-represented in the figures for police killings. Other than that, I agree with TJBender; all lives matter and the US police force has repeatedly shown a blatant disregard for human life, regardless of ethnicity.

 

I'm white and male, therefore the most likely to be killed during a police engagement.

 

I don't fear.

 

Why?

 

I follow the law.  I have no record.  If I'm stopped, I follow all orders.

 

That's how one "survives" a police encounter.

 

If I had a record, was doing wrong, and had a "history" with police... yes, things would be much different.


But that would be because of me and my behavior.  Not some fantasy system.

Quote:Link?


Not only do I believe that yes, such a statistic is very small, I have a hard time believing we're "70 times higher" than other first world countries unless they simply aren't enforcing the law at the same rate we are. Of course there's no incident if you turn your back on crime. There's qualitative analysis that must accompany any quantitative analysis to get a more complete picture.


But then, statistics are routinely abused to tell stories that aren't true. There's only so much they tell, yet the wrong conclusions are drawn from them or are used to back arguments that simply don't fit. This seems like one of those cases to me.


The false fear or expectation of altercation during a police engagement is simply manufactured one by those pushing a dangerous agenda. And because of that, is a direct cause of leading to more such unnecessary and unfortunate incidents.

Here's the news article... <a class="bbc_url" href='http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-kill-citizens-70-times-rate-first-world-nations/'>http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-kill-citizens-70-times-rate-first-world-nations/</a>

Here's the original source (it's pretty depressing)... <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.killedbypolice.net/'>http://www.killedbypolice.net/</a>

Here's another sobering news article...https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015...-countries


I agree that statistics can be used to create an agenda. That's why it's important to try and follow or understand the methodology used to analyize the figures that are presented. These sources don't say whether the homocides were justified. It just shows the number of police deaths compared to other first world nations.


To me, this is substantial and makes me think that the system is broken. It's time to realize that the war on drugs, the profit motive of housing criminals and using policing as a revenue stream for a municipality, and the militarization of our officers has shattered our communities and thier relationships whith those that are supposed to protect and serve. The trust has been lost. These policies I've stated here have only begun over the past 30 years or so. They can be stopped, we can get back to normal. But we won't ever get there if we continue to allow the our "leaders" to continue to divide us based on R v. D and Black v. White.

Quote:Specifically white cops.

I'm not playing dumb here.... But, can you please explain the reason this matters? Just because a PTDS veteran decides to go off the deep and and take out cops and says he hates white people, what does that matter in terms of this discussion? This is an honest question.

Quote:I'm white and male, therefore the most likely to be killed during a police engagement.

 

I don't fear.

 

Why?

 

I follow the law.  I have no record.  If I'm stopped, I follow all orders.

 

That's how one "survives" a police encounter.

 

If I had a record, was doing wrong, and had a "history" with police... yes, things would be much different.

But that would be because of me and my behavior.  Not some fantasy system.

Ignoring for a moment whether your first statement is true; do you not see the fundamentally screwed up nature of what you just said? There's a justice system for a reason, punishment should be determined after hearing all the arguments and thereafter reaching a reasonable conclusion. But most of all, the first response to a man reaching for his wallet shouldn't be 5 bullets to the center mass. The mere fact you know better than to exactly what the officer says points to a fundamental problem with how police officer are trained to respond to the actions of civilians.

Quote:I'm white and male, therefore the most likely to be killed during a police engagement.


I don't fear.


Why?


I follow the law. I have no record. If I'm stopped, I follow all orders.


That's how one "survives" a police encounter.


If I had a record, was doing wrong, and had a "history" with police... yes, things would be much different.

But that would be because of me and my behavior. Not some fantasy system.

At the same time have you bee racially profiled? Pulled over because of your skin color? Mulitiple times in your life? Just keep in mind our perspetives (not mine, but in general) are different which means we view the world differently. The young man who died in the car didn't have a record and, by all accounts, died because of an overzealous, possibly subconsciously against blacks, police officer. If that same thing happened with a white driver I doubt the person would be dead right now.


But that is one instance and agree that each one should be judged individually, not as a whole. We should be careful to label any group as a whole because neither group likes it when people do.

Quote:

 

Hmmmmmm, now where have I seen that before?

 

Oh yeah:

 

 

 

So?

 

Cops could be dressed as Imperial stormtroopers and I wouldn't care, if it saves one police life.

 

Some of you seem to forget that there are people underneath those helmets.

Quote:I agree that statistics can be used to create an agenda. That's why it's important to try and follow or understand the methodology used to analyize the figures that are presented. These sources don't say whether the homocides were justified. It just shows the number of police deaths compared to other first world nations.

 

Yet does nothing to explain that they are comparing apples and oranges.

 

"Per capita" does not factor the rate of crime commission nor does it even begin to touch on attitudes towards police (rate of resistance/violence against police.)

 

Nor does it consider arrest rates vs crimes committed (how many committed crimes are actually attempted to be stopped.)  What's broken most, that I see, is the treatment of our police by criminals (and attitudes of those who would shield or excuse criminal behavior and blame it on a "system.")  The system broken most, in fact, are the neighborhoods that foster that behavior and attitudes.

Quote:So?

 

Cops could be dressed as Imperial stormtroopers and I wouldn't care, if it saves one police life.

 

Some of you seem to forget that there are people underneath those helmets.

And a lot of people seem to forget that criminals are people too. 

Quote:And a lot of people seem to forget that criminals are people too. 

 

You'll get no argument from me.

 

I wish they'd dress in easily recognizable uniforms too.

Quote:Ignoring for a moment whether your first statement is true; do you not see the fundamentally screwed up nature of what you just said? There's a justice system for a reason, punishment should be determined after hearing all the arguments and thereafter reaching a reasonable conclusion. But most of all, the first response to a man reaching for his wallet shouldn't be 5 bullets to the center mass. The mere fact you know better than to exactly what the officer says points to a fundamental problem with how police officer are trained to respond to the actions of civilians.

 

It is true.  White males are most killed by police.  Fact.  It's a blind statistic.  Something not premeditated.

 

The first response is not what you stated.  Now you're just making things up to advance your cause, but that's proven to be par for the course who see police as the greater problem.  Are there things that can and should be done better re: training?  Absolutely, and we're already seeing advances.  What we're not seeing is improvements in neighborhoods and attitudes that refuse to improve themselves.  Again, no accountability... always someone else's fault and responsibility.

Quote:These cops were killed because they were cops.


If it was only a race issue, then he would not have targeted cops specifically.

One of the shooters specifically said he waa trying to kill white people but dont let facts get in the way.

Quote:Here's a picture of Dutch riot police:

 



 

Notice how none of their equipment looks military in nature. The helmets are colored white, not black; the uniform is an even blue, no camo patterns. Their faces aren't obscured by military style balaclavas. They project authority without resorting to oppression. 

 

It would seem you failed to include an image from one of the many segments of the police force that more align with the SWAT image previously posted.

 

Quote:You guys trying to make this a race thing are hilarious.


This whole thread is about policing, and the result of the systemic brutality of the police force, but you want to know how many of the cops were black?


The killer said he hated cops. He also said he hated whites. So... I guess that means, in your mind it's a racial thing?


I disagree. If it was mainly about trace, the uniform wouldn't have been the exclusive target. He would have picked white pedestrians. Not cops.

"One of the suspects in the ambush-style shootings in Dallas that left five police officers dead overnight told a hostage negotiator he was upset about the recent police shootings of two black men and he wanted to kill white people, especially cops, Dallas Police Chief David Brown said at a news conference this morning."-ABC News
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://abcnews.go.com/US/dallas-shooting-suspect-wanted-kill-white-people-white/story?id=40431306'>http://abcnews.go.com/US/dallas-shooting-suspect-wanted-kill-white-people-white/story?id=40431306</a>



He wanted to kill white cops, yet race this isn't an issue involving race?



Again, stop pretending to be stupid. I assume you are able to read.

Quote:I'm not playing dumb here.... But, can you please explain the reason this matters? Just because a PTDS veteran decides to go off the deep and and take out cops and says he hates white people, what does that matter in terms of this discussion? This is an honest question.

Holy.......



Do the rest of the liberals here buy this spin?



What. The. Heck.

A guy who said he wanted to kill white people killed white people and liberals are still sitting here saying race wasn't an influence in target selection?



How does anyone take this angle seriously?

Quote:I'm not playing dumb here.... But, can you please explain the reason this matters? Just because a PTDS veteran decides to go off the deep and and take out cops and says he hates white people, what does that matter in terms of this discussion? This is an honest question.

The dude WAS an Army reservist with the rank of private first class. His MOS was carpentry masonry specialist! He saw no action to give him PTSD or make him go off the deep end unless a skill saw randomly attacked him. His combat training was limited to the occasional basic weapons qualification!