12-01-2014, 07:17 PM
12-01-2014, 07:19 PM
Quote:That's what gets me... People look at wins vs losses and don't take into consideration that we are the youngest team in the NFL, playing more rookies as starters than any other team. Were they expecting us to go 16-0 ? Do they seriously think that any other coach would do that much better with the level of talent we currently have? The roster was blown up and we're two years into a complete rebuild. Quit knee-jerking and try to wrap your brain around reality.... It's only going to get better.
Poster's like yourself always lean to one extreme or another. If its not over hyping the heck outta bortles to be some kind of Manning reincarnation its being overly critical of fans like my self that voice our displeasure in what we see as a bottom feeder coaching staff. Were not idiots we understand that rebuilding takes time. We understand that we have had a lot of rookies play on offense.
But I for one believe that a veteran HC whether NFL retread or College HC could have this team more prepared to win some of those past games. Most notably the Eagles, Titians, Steelers and Dolphins games. but instead we win the one we should've lost down by 18 and requiring a franchise historic comeback by the defense.
This team, while young inexperienced and requiring many rookies to play was still capable of winning 5-6 games. That's exactly what my expectation for this year was. But instead we are 2-10 when we could've easily been 4-8 or maybe 5-7. That would've been realistic improvement. Gus and staff do not pass the eye test. But even I know that Gus will be here next year. But regardless of what the players think, winning matters and if he doesn't start winning sooner than later...arrivederci!
12-01-2014, 07:26 PM
Quote:I don't think I can link it NYC. Check out the timeline of @drawplaydave.LOL. Yeah, definitely not in the confines of COC.
12-01-2014, 07:27 PM
Quote:You know damn well that the vast majority of the people weren't expecting 16-0, or 10-6, or even 8-8.You feeding a troll right now with this comment. And hes done a whole lot of trollin'
Most people expected an improvement over last year.
Most people expected something like 4-6 wins this year.
Starting 1-10 in the fashion that we did makes people angry. They (we) don't lack "perspective"....
There may be a handful of trolls, but those should be ignored anyway.
There are legitimate reasons to question the coaching staff and the direction this franchise is going. People disagreeing don't lack perspective, they just have different opinions than you.
Quote:Winning is nothing at all in the grand scheme of things.ROFL - wow the only appropriate response is :
.. Sorry you're not to smart buddy and came see what's happening. Go eat some Cheerios
You do realize Gus had connections with all of these coaches going to North Dakota.... You know nothing please stop talking....
We have one if the best WR coaches in league history... Not many coaches hit on their OC and DC first years.... It's a process.
I am sorry if you studied really hard to obtain your education but ultimately failed and couldn't muster cs.... But were climbing the NFL ranks with or without you... No one cares about you
trolololololololol!
Quote:This is year one rebuild on offense you dumb [BAD WORD REMOVED]
Thank you, Jags02, cause I know FBT didn't ban him.
12-01-2014, 07:31 PM
Quote:I'll make sure I login from a different computer while in my college libraryGold this thread is gold! Yeah that'll stop the ban buddy! You should be a programmer/hacker with all your know how! And with your great impulse control no one would be able to stop you!
Loser
Quote:We all hope that BB is ready but there isn't much promise there yet...That is disturbing. Hes not as bad as the last four, but still.
See below...
Q: I know he is only a rookie, and I know he is playing for the Jaguars, but has Blake Bortles shown us ANYTHING this season that should lead us to believe he isn’t going to be a huge bust?
—Kevin, Long Island
[BAD WORD REMOVED]: The good news: You shouldn’t jump to conclusions with any rookie QB playing behind such an abysmal offensive line. The bad news: Bortles has tallied 15 picks, five fumbles and just eight passing TDs, along with an impossibly low 21.8 QBR. That’s really, really, really, really dreadful. Since 2006, only six qualifying QBs dipped under 25 QBR.
2013 Brandon Weeden: 24.7
2007 Kellen Clemens: 22.3
2011 Blaine Gabbert: 19.1
2006 Andrew Walter: 17.4
2009 JaMarcus Russell: 11.6
2010 Jimmy Clausen: 11.0
(That’s a murderer’s row. Literally — they murdered seasons. What a terrible omen for the Blake Bortles era. But hey, at least Sammy Watkins and Khalil Mack weren’t the next two 2014 draft picks after Bortles.)
Here's the link.... http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-we...ing-picks/
12-01-2014, 07:32 PM
well - he has 4 games to improve upon that QBR.
12-01-2014, 07:36 PM
Quote:And this is precisely what Caldwell is saying will happen. In a fan forum he did back on the 20th, he made it very clear that when the team does turn it around, it's going to happen very quickly.But what happened to this being a process, and the 4+ year plan? Seriously, you buy everything the front office spits out, doesn't it get old having to change your opinions and backtrack all the time? I know you have watched football for awhile, why don't you have your own opinion that is unrelated to the front office positions?
The team is going to have a huge war chest to work with in free agency, and they're going to HAVE to spend that money this year.
12-01-2014, 09:39 PM
Quote:But what happened to this being a process, and the 4+ year plan? Seriously, you buy everything the front office spits out, doesn't it get old having to change your opinions and backtrack all the time? I know you have watched football for awhile, why don't you have your own opinion that is unrelated to the front office positions?I don't recall anyone saying this is a 4+ year plan. All I have heard is that next year is the year that the rebuild is expected to begin paying dividends and that has been the expectations from day one of the process.
I don't know where you people come up with these crazy timelines.
12-01-2014, 10:02 PM
Quote:I don't recall anyone saying this is a 4+ year plan. All I have heard is that next year is the year that the rebuild is expected to begin paying dividends and that has been the expectations from day one of the process.
I don't know where you people come up with these crazy timelines.
OK, but exactly who did you hear this from? I tried to google and find any direct quote from Bradley, Caldwell, or Khan saying something about how the 3rd year is the year. I haven't come up with anything saying anything of the sort.
I've read that we are working on improving and so on. But nothing that directly states from the organization that year three is the year to expect huge payoffs.
So to me, I think it's fair to discuss exactly what we are see right now.
I see a defense that looks like it is indeed getting better. I see a very bad special teams that played OK on Sunday. And I see an offense that struggles to score 17 points a game.
So while the defense is getting better. The offense isn't and neither is the special teams. Gus needs help, specifically in the 2 areas of football which he never was a coordinator of. And the help isn't on his staff at this point in time.
12-01-2014, 11:12 PM
Quote:
OK, but exactly who did you hear this from? I tried to google and find any direct quote from Bradley, Caldwell, or Khan saying something about how the 3rd year is the year. I haven't come up with anything saying anything of the sort.
I've read that we are working on improving and so on. But nothing that directly states from the organization that year three is the year to expect huge payoffs.
So to me, I think it's fair to discuss exactly what we are see right now.
I see a defense that looks like it is indeed getting better. I see a very bad special teams that played OK on Sunday. And I see an offense that struggles to score 17 points a game.
So while the defense is getting better. The offense isn't and neither is the special teams. Gus needs help, specifically in the 2 areas of football which he never was a coordinator of. And the help isn't on his staff at this point in time.
Its been discussed quite a few times on this board. I think NYC4Jags was able to pull a few quotes alluding to the bolded. Regardless, 3 years is plenty enough time to see how far along your rebuild has gone. We'll see come next September.
12-01-2014, 11:22 PM
Quote:Its been discussed quite a few times on this board. I think NYC4Jags was able to pull a few quotes alluding to the bolded. Regardless, 3 years is plenty enough time to see how far along your rebuild has gone. We'll see come next September.
You can't come out and say this season's record doesn't matter. Because it really does matter. It matters a lot to the players. It matters a lot to the fans. But the reality is that the record this year effectively means nothing and Khan, Bradley and Caldwell all know this. It is not a litmus test for where they want to be. It's just not. They don't have the players yet. It takes time to develop players. And you have to do that to be successful in this league. You cannot scrape by with has-beens and never-wases. You will only find bridges in free agency--not the building blocks. Therefore, you must develop talent in-house to have long term success in this league. David and Gus are trying to jump start this rebuild by going so young. I'm sure Gus and Dave would have used all three years worth of draft picks and salary caps already if the league would have let them. But it don't work that way. It takes time and hard work.
12-01-2014, 11:23 PM
Quote:
So while the defense is getting better. The offense isn't and neither is the special teams.
The offense is an infant just learning to roll itself over while the defense is a toddler that's beginning to walk. That's how I see it.
Maybe a different staff could get them walking/running quicker, but it's not quantifiable IMO.
In regards to the three year plan thing: I linked to an article a few weeks ago in which Caldwell alluded to a strategy for the 2013 and 2014 drafts and FA periods. His recent comments about this finally being the time to spend in FA make it seem pretty clear that there was a three year plan. It's technically reading between the lines, but it's practically a flashing neon sign.
12-01-2014, 11:48 PM
Quote:You can't come out and say this season's record doesn't matter. Because it really does matter. It matters a lot to the players. It matters a lot to the fans. But the reality is that the record this year effectively means nothing and Khan, Bradley and Caldwell all know this. It is not a litmus test for where they want to be. It's just not. They don't have the players yet. It takes time to develop players. And you have to do that to be successful in this league. You cannot scrape by with has-beens and never-wases. You will only find bridges in free agency--not the building blocks. Therefore, you must develop talent in-house to have long term success in this league. David and Gus are trying to jump start this rebuild by going so young. I'm sure Gus and Dave would have used all three years worth of draft picks and salary caps already if the league would have let them. But it don't work that way. It takes time and hard work.
I agree with what you said. I think It will begin to materialize as early as next September. Hopefully the 2013-14 draft class will take a leap and adding a handful of veteran mid to top tier FA's this year along with a new rookie class will add to the pot. As long as Bortles continues on his progression, I see good things happening in our future.
12-02-2014, 10:11 AM
Quote:Its been discussed quite a few times on this board. I think NYC4Jags was able to pull a few quotes alluding to the bolded. Regardless, 3 years is plenty enough time to see how far along your rebuild has gone. We'll see come next September.
Ok, fair enough. I'll concede that year three is the year, especially with the rookie at qb.
(Insert my obligatory concern about the OC)
12-02-2014, 10:41 AM
Quote:I'm kinda partial to the Jaxson/Eli cartoon that is floating around Twitter.Link??
Nvm just read the thread
12-02-2014, 11:54 AM
Quote:It's all great that Gus still has the players behind him, but at what point do the wins come? It's a production based business and at some point they need to start winning consistently. I have a feeling that if they don't, Khan will find someone who can win with this group. They can only go for so long with the Rah-Rah stuff before it gets old and I think the majority of players understand that.
How can you win when your GM surrounds you with crap? The first orders of business by the new GM were to get rid of a few guys.
Rashad Jennings (starting RB for Giants)
Darryl Smith (starting LB for Ravens)
Brandon Marshall (starting LB for Broncos)
Terrance Knighton (starting DT for Broncos)
Rashean Mathis (starting CB for Lions)
Eugene Monroe (starting OT for Ravens)
Dawan Landry (starting SS for Jets)
Who did he replace most of those guys with? Rookies and cheap signings even when the Jags had the most cap space in the league. Gus cannot win with a second rate team. The fact that this team is still playing hard speaks volumes of how they feel about Gus. The Raiders have basically given up after getting their one W to get them out of the 0-16 discussion. The Titans have basically given up as well. The Jags were down big early and could have given up, but they didn't. Gus deserves another year and hopefully Caldwell decides to use some of the cap space to give Gus a chance to succeed.
12-02-2014, 12:37 PM
Quote:So while the defense is getting better. The offense isn't and neither is the special teams. Gus needs help, specifically in the 2 areas of football which he never was a coordinator of. And the help isn't on his staff at this point in time.
The quality of the rest of your post notwithstanding, this is pretty much where I am right now. The special teams are an unmitigated nightmare and while I feel the offense has potential once all these rookies mature, it's still a bad offense that struggles to score points on most days.
The one saving grace here is that we have a bunch of players and coaches who have a very special opportunity to grow together. That's what I'm hanging my Jaguars hat on now and for the foreseeable future (although I would not shed a single tear at an OC change this off season).
12-09-2014, 04:13 PM
Quote:How can you win when your GM surrounds you with crap? The first orders of business by the new GM were to get rid of a few guys.
Rashad Jennings (starting RB for Giants)
Darryl Smith (starting LB for Ravens)
Brandon Marshall (starting LB for Broncos)
Terrance Knighton (starting DT for Broncos)
Rashean Mathis (starting CB for Lions)
Eugene Monroe (starting OT for Ravens)
Dawan Landry (starting SS for Jets)
Who did he replace most of those guys with? Rookies and cheap signings even when the Jags had the most cap space in the league. Gus cannot win with a second rate team. The fact that this team is still playing hard speaks volumes of how they feel about Gus. The Raiders have basically given up after getting their one W to get them out of the 0-16 discussion. The Titans have basically given up as well. The Jags were down big early and could have given up, but they didn't. Gus deserves another year and hopefully Caldwell decides to use some of the cap space to give Gus a chance to succeed.
Not having Brandon Marshall on this team is frustrating. He's actually playing really well for the Broncos. And don't they play a similar style with the LB's? Man, that's a big letdown.
12-09-2014, 04:22 PM
Quote:OK, but exactly who did you hear this from? I tried to google and find any direct quote from Bradley, Caldwell, or Khan saying something about how the 3rd year is the year. I haven't come up with anything saying anything of the sort.Caldwell mentioned the timeline in the same fan forum I referenced earlier in this thread. They fully expect to see things turn for the better next year. The expectation is that they push for a post season spot next season.
I've read that we are working on improving and so on. But nothing that directly states from the organization that year three is the year to expect huge payoffs.
So to me, I think it's fair to discuss exactly what we are see right now.
I see a defense that looks like it is indeed getting better. I see a very bad special teams that played OK on Sunday. And I see an offense that struggles to score 17 points a game.
So while the defense is getting better. The offense isn't and neither is the special teams. Gus needs help, specifically in the 2 areas of football which he never was a coordinator of. And the help isn't on his staff at this point in time.
What we're seeing right now is part of the process, and while it sucks to see the team struggling the way it has, there needs to be some perspective here. Year 2 of the rebuild was a massive infusion of youth into key positions. When they put Bortles in as early as they did, they clearly made the decision to bite the bullet and take whatever lumps were coming their way this season so that next year, they'd be ahead of the curve in developing their rookies and 2nd year players.
The record isn't where anyone wanted it to be this year, but if/when it does start to reap rewards for the team next year, we can debate important things like the two-tone helmets.
12-09-2014, 04:57 PM
Quote:How can you win when your GM surrounds you with crap? The first orders of business by the new GM were to get rid of a few guys.Marshall did nothing for the Jags in 2012. It has clicked for him in Denver 2 years removed from Jacksonville. While he was here, he was drafted, released, re-signed, released, moved to the practice squad, and put on the roster at the end of the 2012 season before being released again prior to the start of the 2013 season. He was given an opportunity to earn a roster spot under Bradley/Caldwell, and he didn't make the cut.
Rashad Jennings (starting RB for Giants)
Darryl Smith (starting LB for Ravens)
Brandon Marshall (starting LB for Broncos)
Terrance Knighton (starting DT for Broncos)
Rashean Mathis (starting CB for Lions)
Eugene Monroe (starting OT for Ravens)
Dawan Landry (starting SS for Jets)
Who did he replace most of those guys with? Rookies and cheap signings even when the Jags had the most cap space in the league. Gus cannot win with a second rate team. The fact that this team is still playing hard speaks volumes of how they feel about Gus. The Raiders have basically given up after getting their one W to get them out of the 0-16 discussion. The Titans have basically given up as well. The Jags were down big early and could have given up, but they didn't. Gus deserves another year and hopefully Caldwell decides to use some of the cap space to give Gus a chance to succeed.
Knighton wasn't sticking around. He wanted to play for Del Rio. He did well in year 1 in Denver, but his stats are down this year.
Fans sure didn't embrace Rashad Jennings when he was here. I remember a lot of people hammering the team for drafting a kid from Liberty. I always liked Jennings, and thought he showed a lot of potential. Unfortunately, that wasn't even remotely realized until he went to Oakland.
Rashean Mathis was done here, and while he's starting in Detroit, go look at his stat line. Most of the time, when you see highlight reels of teams hitting big plays vs. Detroit, Rashean's jersey seems to make the highlight.
Eugene Monroe suddenly became the greatest LT since Boselli after the team traded him. Prior to that, the luminaries on this board were ready to send him packing. It's amazing how romanticized players are when they're gone. Monroe wasn't the long-term plan at LT once they drafted Joeckel. He wasn't going to take a pay cut that would be required to play RT. The team got value in trade for him rather than just letting him walk in free agency. Yeah, what a huge loss.
Landry was never anything special here. Solid, but nothing special.
Daryl Smith is the one real personnel mistake I feel Caldwell has made. But, I don't think that would have happened if Bradley didn't sign off. They clearly felt he wasn't a fit for what they wanted to do here.
As far as replacing this murderer's row of All Pro talent with rookies and inexpensive free agents, it's pretty clear some folks still don't really understand what the intention was in 2013. They were purging the roster to begin the build. They brought in less expensive free agents, giving them "show me" contracts, and those who contributed and proved their value as foundational players were identified. Nobody, including the front office was expecting to land a group of awe inspiring players in the budget market of free agency. Marks is one of those guys they signed, and he's been worth every penny so far with his new deal, and outplayed his original contract significantly.
They clearly had a plan going into this thing, knowing that they would be required to spend to the cap in 2015. By clearing out the players who weren't part of the long-term plans, and back filling with youth and less expensive free agency, they were able to build a serious war chest in 2015. Money won't be an issue in pursuing any player they want in free agency, and they've already made it clear they intend to be serious players as soon as the market is open. I expect to see them signing multiple impact free agents (depending on what is available when we get to that point). Had they blown their reserves in year one on free agency, it would have undermined what they wanted to do in building through the draft. Credit to them for not succumbing to the temptation of going the easy route. Hopefully it will pay off with long-term, sustainable success moving forward.