Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Don't you mean "evolved opinion?"

That is the new flip flop. Someone has been doing quite a bit of "evolving" on a host of things around here lately.

Quote:If he could do the other half of the trick, we wouldn't be having this discussion because he'd be rostered and probably starting. There are many WRs who made/make a living off being one trick ponies. Because he only has half of this Wide Receiver thing down, he is be able to had with little to no risk.


The Jaguars have one of the best positional coaches in all of football and he just happens to be WR coach. Why do people act like this isn't true?

Catching the ball isn't one of those things that even jerry Sullivan can fix. He coaches routes, timing, where to line up, soft spots in coverage.... Stuff like that.


Catching the ball is natural talent that you either have or you don't at that point in your life.


Even hill was 3 years old, then maybe I would see some potential in him learning to catch but let's not act like Sullivan is the only capable coach around.


Hill had questionable hands in college and he still does to this day. It's not like the only person who tries to help these guys are WR coaches. I'm sure fellow players, offensive coordinators... Etc... All try. He just lacks the ability.


The reason I can't advocate him to take mike browns spot is because brown knows the offense. He has performed pretty well. Henne needs all the help he can get and if bortles plays he's going to need more reliability than a guy who doesn't know the offense and can't catch the ball.


That would be subtraction by addition.

Quote:That is the new flip flop. Someone has been doing quite a bit of "evolving" on a host of things around here lately.

I wish I could find the post where I first taught him that term. My bad.


The fence post is wedged so far into that guy you can see it sticking out of his mouth. The ultimate flip flopper hypocrite

Quote:Catching the ball isn't one of those things that even jerry Sullivan can fix. He coaches routes, timing, where to line up, soft spots in coverage.... Stuff like that.

Catching the ball is natural talent that you either have or you don't at that point in your life.

Even hill was 3 years old, then maybe I would see some potential in him learning to catch but let's not act like Sullivan is the only capable coach around.

Hill had questionable hands in college and he still does to this day. It's not like the only person who tries to help these guys are WR coaches. I'm sure fellow players, offensive coordinators... Etc... All try. He just lacks the ability.

The reason I can't advocate him to take mike browns spot is because brown knows the offense. He has performed pretty well. Henne needs all the help he can get and if bortles plays he's going to need more reliability than a guy who doesn't know the offense and can't catch the ball.

That would be subtraction by addition.

There have been some blazing fast receivers who were enticing because of their speed, but they had lousy hands. You're right. That's a skill that isn't nearly as coachable as route running, body control, and picking up defenses.

Quote:There have been some blazing fast receivers who were enticing because of their speed, but they had lousy hands. You're right. That's a skill that isn't nearly as coachable as route running, body control, and picking up defenses.

This specifically reminds me of troy Williamson. He could torch a defense... He just couldn't capitalize when the ball came his way.

Quote:This specifically reminds me of troy Williamson. He could torch a defense... He just couldn't capitalize when the ball came his way.

You can add our very own Tiquan Underwood to that list as well.

Quote:This specifically reminds me of troy Williamson. He could torch a defense... He just couldn't capitalize when the ball came his way.

Williamson is a little shorter, but same hands.

Quote:You can add our very own Tiquan Underwood to that list as well.

Tiquan is the guy I was thinking of. World class speed and lousy hands.

Quote:If he could do the other half of the trick, we wouldn't be having this discussion because he'd be rostered and probably starting. There are many WRs who made/make a living off being one trick ponies. Because he only has half of this Wide Receiver thing down, he is be able to had with little to no risk.

 

The Jaguars have one of the best positional coaches in all of football and he just happens to be WR coach. Why do people act like this isn't true?

 

Because this fan base has a few goofballs that refuse to understand that "players, not plays" is a fallacy and that good coaches actually DO make a difference. 

Quote:There have been some blazing fast receivers who were enticing because of their speed, but they had lousy hands. You're right. That's a skill that isn't nearly as coachable as route running, body control, and picking up defenses.

Alvis Whitted, anyone?

Quote:Because this fan base has a few goofballs that refuse to understand that "players, not plays" is a fallacy and that good coaches actually DO make a difference.

So al Preston, the WR coach at Georgia tech who "developed" Thomas and hill is what? A bad coach?


We all know how good Thomas is and he disguised hills weaknesses and made him look like a superstar.


I guess all that work he did while hill was in college just doesn't matter because he isn't a good coach....

Quote:Because this fan base has a few goofballs that refuse to understand that "players, not plays" is a fallacy and that good coaches actually DO make a difference.

Right, because coaching always cures "stone hands" as you referred to him.

Quote:Right, because coaching always cures "stone hands" as you referred to him.

 

Good coaching gets the most out of a players potential. 

 

If Hill wouldn't succeed here with Sullivan, he likely won't succeed anywhere. 

Quote:Good coaching gets the most out of a players potential. 

 

If Hill wouldn't succeed here with Sullivan, he likely won't succeed anywhere.

Or, maybe he won't succeed anywhere with or without Sullivan.


More likely without.

Quote:Good coaching gets the most out of a players potential.


If Hill wouldn't succeed here with Sullivan, he likely won't succeed anywhere.

"Ok, Stephen, you put your hands in the air and then when the ball touches them, you close them around it at the same time."


Tremendous advice from one of the all time great position coaches. A juicy tidbit that you just couldn't find elsewhere.

Quote:"Ok, Stephen, you put your hands in the air and then when the ball touches them, you close them around it at the same time."


Tremendous advice from one of the all time great position coaches. A juicy tidbit that you just couldn't find elsewhere.

 

Better route running and a better QB throwing him the ball (more accurate passes) would likely help his drop problem. To what degree, we don't know yet. Also better coaching that runs plays/ puts Hill in a better position to succeed per his strengths. I doubt he got that last one on a Rex Ryan offense. 

 

The above is so stupid. You act as if he would drop 50 out of 100 footballs playing "catch" with a teammate. 

 

He's dropped 9 passes in a 2 year career. If he can turn even 3 -4 of those into catches, he's suddenly right back in the pack of normal again as far as hands go. 

Quote:Better route running and a better QB throwing him the ball (more accurate passes) would likely help his drop problem. To what degree, we don't know yet. Also better coaching that runs plays/ puts Hill in a better position to succeed per his strengths. I doubt he got that last one on a Rex Ryan offense.

You're one of the people that dislike Andy Dalton, correct?


I believe you said Dalton without green would be terrible.


So I take that as you think Dalton is a bad QB.


How is that working out for AJ green? Does he need a better QB throwing him the ball to succeed?


Or is he succeeding because he's a talented player who catches everything?

Quote:Better route running and a better QB throwing him the ball (more accurate passes) would likely help his drop problem. To what degree, we don't know yet. Also better coaching that runs plays/ puts Hill in a better position to succeed per his strengths. I doubt he got that last one on a Rex Ryan offense.


The above is so stupid. You act as if he would drop 50 out of 100 footballs playing "catch" with a teammate.


He's dropped 9 passes in a 2 year career. If he can turn even 3 -4 of those into catches, he's suddenly right back in the pack of normal again as far as hands go.

45. OK, I never said anything that would allude to the fact that I believe he would only catch 50% of the balls thrown to him, so again, I know you need to try to put words in my mouth to have a shot at sounding intelligent, but please refrain as it is a disingenuous tactic.


In 2 years he had 9 drops? He only caught 45 passes. So... Let's see 54 total... That means hill drops about 17% of all passes thrown his way.


Furthermore he played more snaps than any other wide receiver on the jets this preseason. You say its the jets fault but how are guys like Jeremy Kerley, David Nelson and Jalen Saunders beating him out?


Kerley has been with the jets since 2011. His whole professional career. So how is a guy like that outproducing hill? Kerley seems to have been developed just fine and doesn't have these freakish physical stats you can't teach.


Weird.

Quote:Better route running and a better QB throwing him the ball (more accurate passes) would likely help his drop problem. To what degree, we don't know yet. Also better coaching that runs plays/ puts Hill in a better position to succeed per his strengths. I doubt he got that last one on a Rex Ryan offense. 

 

The above is so stupid. You act as if he would drop 50 out of 100 footballs playing "catch" with a teammate. 

 

He's dropped 9 passes in a 2 year career. If he can turn even 3 -4 of those into catches, he's suddenly right back in the pack of normal again as far as hands go.

Better route running really fixes those stone hands.

Quote:Better route running really fixes those stone hands.

 

Better route running gets you more wide "open" and away from defenders better which at that point if the football is then thrown to you quicker with an accurate pass (Bortles) you have a better chance to catch it. I'm betting that some of the passes that were credited as drops to Hill in NY were situations where there wasn't much separation due to poor route running and even though they were catchable passes by rule, the DB was in position to make a quick contesting of the pass or knock it out of Hill's hands.